View Full Version : "Remain clear of controlled airspace"

31st Jul 2015, 17:41
Talking UK only here and what CAP 413 requires.

ATC "Remain clear of controlled airspace".

Is a readback "Remain clear of controlled airspace" required or will "Wilco" suffice?

I suppose indirectly you could argue this is a level or heading instruction therefore a full read back is required.

31st Jul 2015, 17:57
The answer lies within the CAP2.68 The ATS messages listed below are to be read back in full by the pilot/driver. If a readback is not received the pilot/driver will be asked to do
so. Similarly, the pilot/ driver is expected to request that instructions are repeated or clarified if any are not fully understood.

Taxi/Towing Instructions
Level Instructions
Heading Instructions
Speed Instructions
Airways or Route Clearances
Approach Clearances
Clearance to Enter, Land On, Take-Off On, Backtrack, Cross, or Hold Short of any Active Runway
SSR Operating Instructions
Altimeter Settings, including units when value is below 1000 hectopascals
VDF Information
Frequency Changes
Type of ATS Service
Transition Levels
2.69 Items which do not appear in the above list may be acknowledged with an abbreviated read back.

31st Jul 2015, 18:00
Whopity thanks I am of course aware of that list.

A certain ATC unit recently (as they often do) stated "Remain clear of controlled airspace" to which the student read back "Wilco" - ATC repeated the instruction implying they expected a full read back.

31st Jul 2015, 18:21
That r/t conversation could have gone on all day, then! ;)

31st Jul 2015, 19:38
A bit like those who expect you to say "Practice" with FANSTOP! And even worse, those who do!

1st Aug 2015, 16:29
Anyway, I thought the correct wording was

"Remain outside of controlled airspace", leaving the word "clear" for a clearance to enter controlled airspace in the same way the phrase "take off" is only used in connection with a clearance to take off.

1st Aug 2015, 19:58
Interestingly CAP 413 does not seem to define what constitutes an "abbreviated read back" although MATS states:-

Acknowledgement of Messages
Pilots are expected to acknowledge all messages. In some cases the sole use of the aircraft’s callsign is sufficient. However, an acknowledgement only is not acceptable when a complete or abbreviated read back is required.

1st Aug 2015, 21:08
I think I might have upset ATC one day when I called "Fanstop" and was asked to confirm that it was a practice fanstop. I replied that it was a real fanstop! Did they not think I might have muttered "Mayday" had the engine actually quit?

1st Aug 2015, 21:33
There are too many changes to the book, and the book itself is totally user unfriendly, all to comply with CAA "Style" rather than Safety.

2nd Aug 2015, 07:31
A bit like those who expect you to say "Practice" with FANSTOP! And even worse, those who do!

Or even worse, those who pull the power at 200' without saying anything and get the poor sap on air/ground in a right lather, hopping from foot to foot...