I bit my tongue this afternoon, but....

[Monocock]

1400 hrs today...

I was in my hangar giving my aircraft a good "shoite weather"'check over. Cowls off, and a really thorough look over.

Lycoming heard overhead (low), and the weather was really crap. I felt a bit sorry for the chap (or woman if we are being properly 2015'ish) overhead and thought 'he's welcome to pitch in when it's like this'.

Sure enough, the Warrior did a Lancaster-style circuit and lined up for the strip. A nice approach and a well controlled mains-first touch down with training wheel held off as long as possible. All good stuff.

I was interested to hear where they were from and going to as they taxied back towards the windsock and hangar. Curiously, after a nice wave, they taxied right past me and went to line up to depart!!

A minute later they were at full power and casually heading off again.

So.....whilst I won't publically name and shame, I will just say that the bloke from Oxfordhsire with a yellow/blue/white PA28 is a rude and assuming bugger who has just put a nail in the coffin for any more visitors I'm afraid. It happens time after time now, and it's just not what it used to be. People really do seem to think that any airstrip is theirs to use these days, and I can't work out what's brought about this assumption and lack of respect for privacy.

[fireflybob]

No excuse and b****y bad manners

[piperboy84]

Nothing to do with flying, it's about common courtesy, if you land at a remote field which is obviously private and the person that owns/runs it is there, take five minutes to get out and introduce yourself and have a chat about the days flying conditions perhaps, maybe even thank them for letting you land then go on about your way. It's just good manners showing the person that you're aware he/she has put the effort into mowing, sowing, patching, repairing equipment and all the other chores that go into keeping a strip in a usable condition for no financial reward but for the benefit of GA

Just my 2 cents.

[Monocock]

I'm pretty sure he will have flown back to base, got in his white Audi, and driven back to Didcot listening to Avicii on Spotify. ;)

[maxred]

Ahhhh, the white Audi, preferred mount of......hairdressers. Yes, state of the nation and all that....Ba'stards

[A and C]

Are your sure the guy was not doing a dry run for some sort of smuggling operation ? After all it is a customs requirement to make an entry in the airfield movements book.

May be this is the sort of thing that should be reported to the authorities ?

[Johnm]

I agree that public naming and shaming is inappropriate, but I trust you will be writing to him to remind him of his manners and including a substantial landing fee invoice. You might mention that visitors with PPR are free others are charged £50 :-)

[maxred]

It's an interesting point though. Arriving on someone's private strip.

I fly from a private grass strip, and would never dream of pitching in, uninvited, nor by a least a telephone call to the owner/manager. We also go to another privately owned strip, it is a different and difficult approach, and gives us good practice. We leave a voicemail to say we are coming, and pop a tenner in an envelope. Generally, a few touch and go, then off.

To arrive, then go, without even an acknowledgement, is downright bad manners, but as I stated above, sign of the times.:sad:

[Pilot DAR]

Don't be shy, please advise us the aircraft registration.

Thank you for not....

[Monocock]

It happens when I'm not there too, as I see wheel marks. I know they're not mine as the middle wheel mark is as wide as the outers. I think they were caught out by the fact that my car was in the hangar with me and it looked like nobody was about.

It's the new generation of aero-chavs. :)

[Wide-Body]

Damn flying chavs, gives us proper Aeropikeys a bad name.

In all seriousness Mono it might be worth be worth pursuing this. It is pure
arrogance. I like the idea of free coffee for PPR and £50 who don't.

I know a chap at an Oxfordshire who has a strip, his solution is simple. If the pilot has no valid reason for landing on the strip he parks his tractor in front of the offender and then goes for a tea.

Sounds a bit draconian, but a lot of pitfalls of flying into a strip without a brief.

[Monocock]

Don't worry, you're still the original Aero-Pikey!! :-D. Thanks for the text by the way.

I have searched the reg' and it's registered to a man who has a surname that also forms part of an Oxford solicitor's firm.....

On the basis that I was recently threatened on three different occasions on another great forum with legal action for:

1. Resting my foot in the edge of a Cub door ledge whilst in flight. (Flight safety).
2. Saying that Carol Vorderman had a great @r5e. (Sexism).
3. Telling someone he spoke to much about how good he was at flying and that he was a prick... (Threatening the image of a sky God??)....

....there are obviously quite a few legal eagles in the fraternity and apart from the fact that he is a solicitor, his home address sounds far posher than mine!! :eek:

[Cows getting bigger]

Send him a polite note mentioning that you thought you saw something fall off his aircraft on departure. :p

[flydive1]

Send him a polite note mentioning that you thought you saw something fall off his aircraft on departure. :p

A wallet...;)

[Monocock]

Having studied G-INFO closer, I was wrong. It wasn't a Warrior, it was an Archer. These trainers all look the same to me. Is an Archer a newer version of a Warrior? :bored:

[Johnm]

As a legal eagle he ought to know better, so write him a polite letter, I'll draft it for you if you like :-)

[Monocock]

Thanks John, that's kind and I appreciate it, but I know how clever the legal lot are. I just don't want to get embroiled with it all. Had he been a normal person I'd certainly follow it up.

Watching my solicitor defend me in court a few weeks ago, these guys are more slippery than a doped slug in a jar of warm KY.

[Johnm]

I'd get your solicitor to write to him then, poacher gamekeeper etc. An Archer is an excellent aeroplane and can be considered as a Warrior with a decent sized engine. 181 as opposed to 161 .

[tmmorris]

I'd get your solicitor to write to him then, poacher gamekeeper etc. An Archer is an excellent aeroplane and can be considered as a Warrior with a decent sized engine. 181 as opposed to 161 .

...and the old slab (Hershey bar) wing. More drag at low approach speeds but less float.

[Above The Clouds]

Monocock

If you now know his address then stop being so polite, go and park your tractor on his front lawn while delivering the invoice for his landing fees, see how he likes that unannounced without PPR.

[Steve6443]

If you now know his address then stop being so polite, go and park your tractor on his front lawn while delivering the invoice for his landing fees, see how he likes that unannounced without PPR.

I'd also take the opportunity to advise him that Sky Gods actually do request PPR from lowly mortals such as the rest of us......:p

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I no longer mark my strip, have a windsock or anything. If someone wants to fly in I brief them thoroughly and make sure someone is there to meet them and a sock is erected temporarily.

I started doing it when I kept finding aircraft I knew nothing about parked there. One bloke arrived while I was away, upset my neighbours, parked for two days, upset the neighbours when he left and said nothing, we had never met, I hadn't even heard of him he just thought that he would use my strip for his weekend trip, not even an attempt to contact me.

When I fly a helicopter for my day job I wouldn't dream of landing somewhere withouit the land owner's permission (in fact it is an AOC and insurance requirement on our fleet) nor would I land my own toy at a private strip without contacting the owner, getting his brief and offering a contribution to his upkeep when I land.

SND

[flybymike]

My wife would like a jar of that slippery stuff.

[Cows getting bigger]

Alternatively, go to his offices, hang around for a while, make yourself a coffee, put your feet up and wait.

[Monocock]

Actually, that's very tempting, and exactly my way of doing things.... :}

Thank you.

[piperboy84]

Or swing by his house on an enduro bike have a couple of laps round his garden, pull a few wheelies and spins, then a friendly wave and off you go

[fatmanmedia]

clamp it, then charge a HUGE fee to get it unclamped, say 10% hull value, what these people that land at your private field are doing is trespassing, as such you are entitled to take what ever action you need to protect your land.

of course this does not apply to Scotland where it seems you can land anywhere under the right to roam laws.

Fats

[Genghis the Engineer]

A couple of years ago now, but I was out on our club farmstrip tinkering, and an aircraft landed, pulled off the runway and stopped. The pilot got out, watered the grass, then got back in , took off and flew off. I rather regret not noting his registration, but I was so flabbergasted, it just didn't occur to me until later.

G

[27/09]

and the old slab (Hershey bar) wing. More drag at low approach speeds but less float.Not correct, both the Warrior and Archer have the same semi tapered wing, the one that does cause float if the incorrect speed is flown across the threshold.

The 160 and 180 where known as the 160 and 180 and had the slab wing, the 161 and 181 are known as the Warrior and the Archer and have the semi tapered wing.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Back to the topic, I'd either send him a polite letter pointing out his poor etiquette and also stating, prior approval free, unannounced 50 notes, or the other option that appeals is to invite some friends to go with you to visit his office, making use of the waiting area to put your feet up, have a chat, a coffee and lunch (leave your lunch wrappers on the coffee table) and be sure to wave to him on the way out

[Piper.Classique]

Tee hee. Remember once I landed at a small airfield in France for just that purpose. Now usually on a Monday one doesn't even see the airfield cat, so I taxied clear of the runway, shut down and clambered out, was about to do the needful when I got a friendly greeting from the clean up crew who were tidying up after the previous day's air show. Took fully ten painful minutes chat before being escorted to the clubhouse to use the appropriate facilities, followed by coffee and cakes.

Don't think I would have the nerve to drop in on a private strip for anything so banal, though.

[Mach Jump]

Monocock:

Although I like the idea of parking your tractor on his lawn, or spending the afternoon sitting in his office,:E I think a polite letter, pointing out that uninvited visitors are unwelcome trespassers, serves your purpose, and maintains your moral high ground.


27/09:

Not correct, both the Warrior and Archer have the same semi tapered wing, the one that does cause float if the incorrect speed is flown across the threshold.

At the risk of continuing the thread drift, and sounding a bit nerdy, :8 you are both right!.

Although all the Warriors were 151s, then 161s, both with the semi-tapered wing, the Archer I was a posh Cherokee 180 with the slab wing.

The Archer II onwards was the 181 with the 'Warrior' wing.


MJ:ok:

[BEagle]

If you now know his address then stop being so polite, go and park your tractor on his front lawn...

Some years ago, the owner of rather a posh stately pile was somewhat surprised to see a family turn up in rather a clapped-out old car, before proceeding to have a picnic in his grounds - which weren't open to the public.

Rather than disturb their outing, he hopped on a bike, rode past and noted their number plate. As is the norm with the upper class, he was dressed like a tramp in tatty old clothes and the family paid him no attention.

The following day, he managed to persuade the Chief Constable to find out where they lived.....

And so the following weekend, a gleaming chauffeur-driven (borrowed) Roller stopped outside a modest 2 up 2 down in some nearby town. From the boot came a picnic table and chairs, wicker hamper, champagne etc., which were duly set up on the tiny front lawn...

The tenant and his family rushed out to find out WTF was going on. "You had lunch on my lawns last week, so now it's my turn to have lunch on yours!", was the obvious answer.

But then the occupant of the Roller said that no harm had actually been done, so at his suggestion they all settled down to demolish the champagne and to share the hamper. The point had been made, but no-one and nothing had been hurt and they parted amiably a couple of hours later.

That was style!

[muffin]

How do you know that it was the owner who was flying it? Friends of mine often fly my aircraft.

[bingofuel]

Phone your local Special Branch and let them know about unauthorised use of your strip, and failing to complete the movements sheet, they 'might' just pay the owner a visit.

[Small Rodent Driver]

Not worth the aggro of attempting to charge / threaten the ignorant git in charge of the aircraft but I would simply write to the aircraft owner stating the time and date, asking him to ensure that whoever was flying at the time doesn't operate his aircraft in such a cavalier fashion in the future.

The owner may be completely unaware that his aircraft had been used in such a way and just may cease allowing its use by the culprit.

SRD

[Jan Olieslagers]

It will be a very good thing if the owner stops having her/his plane flown by fools/clowns.

[Romeo Tango]

For what it's worth I have had a strip in North Dorset for 10 years. The only unannounced arrival I have ever had was a poor chap who's engine shed some essential components within gliding range.

As to the watering grass incident I have some sympathy with the pilot, this sort of thing can be a safety issue! Though maybe he should have tried to find someone, on the other hand if no one very obvious about why waste their time.

[TimGriff6]

Not worth the aggro of attempting to charge / threaten the ignorant git in charge of the aircraft but I would simply write to the aircraft owner stating the time and date, asking him to ensure that whoever was flying at the time doesn't operate his aircraft in such a cavalier fashion in the future.

The owner may be completely unaware that his aircraft had been used in such a way and just may cease allowing its use by the culprit.

I chanced upon this thread and, whilst some of the replies are clever and amusing, I wonder whether, having gone to the trouble of tracking the owner down, it might be worth picking up the phone and having a chat with him. On the face of it, what was done by the pilot is not something that should have been done but I can think of some very good reasons why things happened the way they did. I don't know where Monocock's strip is and how easy it would be to track him down as its owner, particularly if there was a case of 'temporarily unsure of position'. It could well be case that the pilot would welcome the opportunity to put his side of the story and is either unable to or embarrassed about it. Talking directly to people can often save a lot of unnecessary stress and ill feeling.

[PA28181]

An Archer is an excellent aeroplane and can be considered as a Warrior with a decent sized engine. 181 as opposed to 161 .

chalk & cheese...........................

[2 sheds]

A more serious practical point to make to the owner (for whoever might have been flying the aeroplane) would be...how did he know that the runway surface was suitable?

2 s

[jollyrog]

I think you should report the flight to the CAA, police and Border Force.

You have no idea where the flight originated and you didn't give permission for it to use your land.

For all you know, he chucked a small packet out of the window into the hedge, which someone is collecting later.

[Monocock]

The amount my strip gets used (landed on and approaches down to 20 feet) without permission by gyros, micros and fixed wingers, I'd be on the phone every week to that lot!! I sometimes meet people for the first time who say "Oh I landed there a few months ago because it looked a lovely spot"!!

Unless GA pilots have all become a massive group of 'runners' (!) I'm pretty sure it's just another case of "let's get this strip in our logbook Mildred".

[piperboy84]

Unless GA pilots have all become a massive group of 'runners' (!)

With fags pushing a tenner a pack it probably would be a lucrative earner without having to mess around with the Persian rugs.

[9 lives]

When I first opened my home runway in the late '80's, people occasionally came and went. Though I entirely respect those who choose to assert their private property rights, I did not get too concerned about it, other than for those few fools who would rut the runway when soft in the spring. To those, I did complain toe the flying school, and it stopped.

One morning a "Cub" like homebuilt dropped in and stopped. I started down to say hello. Before the pilot recognized me, I recognized him (as a very senior Transport Canada inspector of airworthiness). He had landed to pour jerry can gas carried in the back of the cabin, so he could make it home - Busted! He and I have had a fine relationship ever since.

I have learned to minimize my invitation of other fliers to land on my home runway. I have been told that if I make such an invitation, and they have an accident, I might be on the hook for it. One did, but the accident was so much poor flying skill, he knew it, and was obviously not thinking to try to fault my runway.

[Monocock]

Interesting - I had a similar thing about 15 years ago.

A chap I was renting some hangar space to had a nose-over in his tailwheel aircraft on landing. Nobody was hurt, and the bent airframe was pushed back into the hangar. At the time, he didn't really say what had caused it, and I didn't ask too much.

A few weeks later I had a phone call from his insurance company asking if I had any insurance cover for the airstrip because thy had been told by the pilot that the grass on the 650 metres he hadn't managed to shop on had been kept cut too short, and therefore not providing enough resistance to slow him down on landing!!

Since then, I've always been cautious about visitors - there are a frightening number of Aero-Muppets out there.

[Above The Clouds]

phone call from his insurance company asking if I had any insurance cover for the airstrip because thy had been told by the pilot that the grass on the 650 metres he hadn't managed to shop on had been kept cut too short.


You honestly couldn't make this kind of stuff up, but you can imagine the horror story made up by your surprise visitor if he had damaged or written off the aircraft simply because he couldn't be bothered to obtain PPR and found the runway obstructed or water logged during the landing.

[tecman]

Some of the culprits are probably not that good at reading signs but if you don't want visitors why not put out some semi-permanent white "X" indicators at the thresholds and near the windsock (if you have one)? You're then free to ignore them during your own use. I know the default should be PPR but, if it saves you a bit of grief, it'd be worth a try.

[flybymike]

Highlighting each end of the runway with a cross might be a good way of drawing undesirable attention to the existence of an airstrip.

[tecman]

To an 'unserviceable' airstrip, yes.

[flybymike]

Theoretically unserviceable, unless and until kept under observation:)

[First_Principal]

Of all the responding posts on here BEagle's post #32 is the best:

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/565125-i-bit-my-tongue-afternoon-but-2.html#post9058612

Why? Because it makes the point to the offender, but in the end (perhaps) a friendship is gained.

While I would never do what this person has done, neither am I perfect. I know that I've pi55ed people off in the past doing something that I thought was ok, but upon reflection really wasn't. I would have welcomed the opportunity to put that right, but just needed a catalyst to do so.

Mono, you're absolutely right to feel aggrieved, most of us would, but here's an opportunity to gently nudge someone in the ribs and say "that's not really cricket old chap, how about you shout me lunch next week and we can chat about flying" or words to that effect, make your point, and possibly gain the ear of someone you can bend about some legal thing next time you need to? In other words, you win :p

You might also find he's not such a bad type after all and he might get to use your field again sometime, but this time stop for a catchup. You both win :ok:

FP.