Rosters Today? + days off

[Monarch Man]

Any bets on if it'll be out today, along with rostered hours and days off.

[Fack5]

Since July is a 31 day month, I'll take your bet. The muppets won't have the rosters out a minute earlier than they have to. What is it, "...no less than seven clear days" or something like that? No less than.

Two more days, Mr. Monarch.

[ilariomaybe]

Hardly post on this place , but I just got to take it off my chest....

What the heck is happening with this rosters , less than 10% of satisfaction on a second to top month , but not only that , also 3 nasty flight nobody want to do this is getting unbelievable .... :mad:

[Eau de Boeing]

This month's offerings are out now. Almost wish I had the weekend to live in blissful ignorance.......:mad:

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Fack 5 - you were WRONG 😈

[The Turtle]

being a closet conspiracy theorist.....I believe the declining roster satisfaction is put in place to make us accept the new (and improved!) roster garbage program soon to served up our collective arses


just my slightly biased opinion

[haveago]

21 days without 2 consecutive days off!! Contact crew control who inform me a rest day will be changed to a day off making my roster legal!! Guess who will be 5 minutes late on that flight! Rosters are a joke. 330 rosters at least!

[flaphandlemover]

Nothing to moan for me.....
got vacation and from the 21. till month end i only fly 44 hours....

in 8 days half my productivity.... WOW I am such a company man....

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[fringhtok]

Fifth straight month of "productivity". So pleased we're not short of pilots:yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Ophion]

97 hours and 8 days off.

[thrustidle74]

Can't complain then, only 96 hours.

[too_much]

Excuse my ignorance but are you guys honestly flying in the high 90's figures?

[scandistralian]

91 hours... I don't know why people complain about living in Dubai, it's now become an extended layover!

[GoreTex]

theoretically I have over 100 but I will press 2, just trying to be a good example, if enough press 2 they would have to hire more or even better stop people leaving

[B-U-S-S]

Are your hours including bunk time?

[aussiefarmer]

Pretty much everyone on 380 and 777 working overtime.

I think we are all aware that EK pays overtime at a rate that is CHEAPER per hour than the hours we work below overtime threshold.

Thus, EK is not short of pilots, they have exactly the minimum amount they can get away with, (denying accrued leave to most of the flight deck crew against their contractual agreement) and working people at a cheaper rate than they would be if they were to hire more pilots and kept everyone below overtime threshold. Simple.

I never heard of any company or job that pays overtime at cheaper rates than the normal work hours. Unbelievable.

[Jefferson Airplane]

Too_Much,


Before I answer your question, may I say how apt your name is for this thread!


Yes, we are indeed flying the hours mentioned here. I'm rostered for 96:40 block hours - not a single minute of those are in the bunk; every one is with the left seat of a Boeing 777 strapped to my backside.


Too Much?


Way Too Much.

[Saltaire]

Aussie Farmer is spot on. So called "overtime" which is more aptly named "productivity". There is no overtime. There is no incentive. No real overtime pay for your hard work. You slave away for a measly sum and they will happily work you into the ground while claiming to be short of crew. Press 2 as required.

[SOPS]

Yes too much, guys have been flying 92 hours a month for years now. But it appears that is now going closer to the 100 mark. Add the fact that bunk time is factored, and there is no credit for ground or sim duties it can be much higher than that.

[sluggums]

Only getting 2 days in a row off every 14 days and they're also using Vacation days to meet these requirements. I give up...

[cerbus]

To answer the incredulous that don't work at Emirates;
We as pilots only get paid for the amount we fly in the seat and nothing more.

We do not get paid for holding , delays or strong headwinds.
We do not get paid for sims.
We don't get paid for ground duties.
We don't get paid for computer based modules that probably add up to 10 + hours a year in unpaid activity.

Yet there are still pilots lining up to join this rat hole.
Wait until the Jepp system comes on line. Even the Kool-Aid drinkers will come around and see the light for what EK is really about. No amount of indoctrination or drugs can hide the fact no matter how hard they try to convince themselves that they made the right decision to join Emirates.

[Mr Good Cat]

Fifth straight month of "productivity". So pleased we're not short of pilots

To be fair, no one denied we are short of pilots...

... he just said he isn't losing sleep over it. ;):}

:{

[Schnowzer]

Only 82 hours. Plus 4 leave days, 1 G/S and 2 sims. Under the old system about 20 hours productivity, no longer c'est la vie.

[Mr Boombastick]

"To answer the incredulous that don't work at Emirates;
We as pilots only get paid for the amount we fly in the seat and nothing more. "

Don't you get paid whilst you're in the bunk?

"We do not get paid for holding , delays or strong headwinds.
We do not get paid for sims.
We don't get paid for ground duties.
We don't get paid for computer based modules that probably add up to 10 + hours a year in unpaid activity. "

Who does these days?

I'm not incredulous, far from it, I believe what you're saying but it's pretty 5hite out there at most airlines!

I pay for my uniform, parking, water, food, sim, ID. I'm on a zero hour contract, based in the UK, I have a forced month off, November this year which means no Christmas presents for my kids and beans on toast for Christmas dinner.

100 hrs this month, next week 33 block hrs from 5 days, 16 sectors, sim on day 6 and have to drive, at my own expense, a 250 mile round trip for the pleasure of doing the sim - the cost of which is deducted from every hour I fly!

To top it all off as I'm based in UK with all my expenses in sterling. I'm paid in Euro so I'm taking a 20% hit on earnings due to the exchange rate at the moment.

Add in the uncertainty of where you and the family will be after a command and all of a sudden EK and at least knowing where you're going to be based seems quite appealing.

I accept that things agave gone downhill for you guys but it's still, in my opinion, better than many places out there at the moment.

[Calmcavok]

And some people still wonder why the industry is what it is today.

We are our own worst enemies.

[The Outlaw]

And there ladies and gentlemen, perfectly surmises what is called "the race to the bottom".

Well done Boombastic for making the case.

Reminds me of a Monty python skit of the "Four Yorkshireman" and "living in a shoebox in the middle of the road". I expect you'd be aware of this being based in the U.K.

As long as we have Boombastic types in the industry, we will always be aware of the definition of regression.

[Mr Boombastick]

Regression leads to depression. Being an honest Yorkshire man moaning comes naturally.

I would like to make the point that this race to the bottom is not just exclusive to this industry.

I spent over 10 years working in the public sector in the UK prior to taking up the self improver route and things have taken a very, very bad turn for the worse there.

Dr's, nurses, firemen, civil servants, police officers... Everyone seems to be taking a huge hit. Pensions, pay, working conditions, all being eroded. The only ones who seem to be doing well now are bankers and builders.

Sorry for the thread creep.

[Desdihold]

Bombastic ,
It sounds like you work for a certain 737 operator with a HQ
In Dublin, am I right ?

[break dancer]

Is overtime optional?
I mean, we're contracted to fly to productivity with more money for overtime, but if I don't want the extra cash, can I tell them to shove it?

[SOPS]

The answer is break dancer......no. Well you could try, just see how far you get.

And Mr Boombastick, I assume you knew that all the things you listed were part of your job contract when you signed up for it.

The guys at EK however, signed a contract, and that contract just keeps getting altered constantly for the worse, and they have no right of reply. In fact if EK said tomorrow 'in leui if cash, we are now paying you in food stamps", there is nothing that could be done.

And that, Mr Boombastick, is where the difference is.

[B-U-S-S]

"Dr's, nurses, firemen, civil servants, police officers... Everyone seems to be taking a huge hit. Pensions, pay, working conditions, all being eroded. The only ones who seem to be doing well now are bankers and builders."

Don't forget politicians. They are doing very well with their salaries, pensions and perks.

The race to the buttom is in fact happening everywhere and is the wealthy's (politicians and other influencial people) attempt to marginalize the middle class.

[Noleave]

96 Hours and 16 unpaid hours for 2 days of ground school.
30 days of leave with more than 20 of them forced.
Way too much work, way too much greed from the company.

I have no problem working hard. However I expect my leave and I expect to have a say when the leave is used.

[harry the cod]

SOPS et al

The only 'iffy' part of the contract not being honoured is the leave. 42 days leave per calendar year is what's stated in our contract. We are also 'bound' by rules and regulations in the HR employee handbook which are subject to change. However, whilst the hours, working conditions and other similar day to day issues have been altered, which are quite normal with most Companies, the fundamental contract has not. Just ask your friends and colleagues in BA if there have been changes over the last 10-15 years. EK is not unique, believe me. So, despite our protestations, I still get my Company Provident contributions of 15%, the housing allowance, education allowance, ALT, ELT, and all the other items listed on the contract renewal that's updated each year with my increase in pay, even if it is only a step increase....again. Correct me if I'm wrong but the above allowances have never been reduced, only increased, correct?

So, while many bemoan the ever eroding conditions, which for the record, I too find disgusting given such high profits, the basic contract itself remains the same as when we all joined. It never guaranteed rosters for commuting. It never guaranteed 75 hour per month. It never guaranteed credit for leave or sim or distance learning. These are lifestyle changes, not contractual changes. If the recruiters sold you that, blame them, not the Company. I was promised a 'fast track' command after 18 months during my interview. That was changed after Gulf Air 072 and changes to the upgrade policy in EK. It took 3 years instead.

In summary, I'm not agreeing at all with the current policy changes and hours we work. They're brutal, especially given the timings of many of our departures, the roster patterns and the 24hour layovers. Add to this the reduced days off, lack of stringing some together and the accepted norm of 30 days leave, we're well on our way to a train smash. Not a mechanical one I hope but a man power and motivation one. Basing their target for all pilots to achieve 30 days leave is shameful and disregards not only the contract but the welfare of those working a damn sight harder in productivity terms than those plodding through Costa at 0715 every morning.

Next time you're called in for a chat, go early and have a wonder around FLT OPS & Cabin Services. See how much work is actually done in between the coffees and checking their phones. Based on work ethics and what's expected, you might as well be working for an entirely different organisation!

Harry

[Bernoulli]

I have an idea. Why not join a professional association and collectively stand up for yourselves? Alone you can do nothing. Together you could improve things. Just a thought.

[harry the cod]

It's a great idea, one collective and cohesive voice but it comes with just one problem. What you refer to as a 'professional organisation' , Emirates would refer to as a union and in the UAE they're illegal.

Apart from that little stumbling block, perfect plan Bernoulli :ugh:

Harry

[SOPS]

I agree Harry about the amount of work done in the office. Due to a medical issue, I had the joy of working in the office for a month. I was shocked at how little work was actually done!

It made me realise that the crew ( both flight deck and cabin) and the engineers are the only ones that actually work in the place. In fact if we produced the equivalent amount of 'work' that is produced in the office, we would do one flight a week!

On another matter, I can't see how the current rosters are sustainable. 96 hours, long haul, back of the clock. Something is going to snap. It's simply not safe, and I fear what it is doing to people's long term health.

[falconeasydriver]

Next time you're called in for a chat, go early and have a wonder around FLT OPS & Cabin Services. See how much work is actually done in between the coffees and checking their phones. Based on work ethics and wh

Nothing new in that regard, I remember a number of years ago visiting a chum who worked for a large LHR based airline. We met at their HQ, the colloquial term for the place was "waterworld".
Same sh1t as EK HQ, populated by sandal wearing oxygen thieves doing as much as possible to look busy...but doing very little or nothing.
lots of rain here yesterday, much nicer today, the stream is up a bit..but the apples look like they're just about ready to pick :ok:

[Plank Cap]

Perhaps time for the Wall Street Journal to revisit the situation...... At least the last time they went into print we had the small but joyous admission that the ridiculous 'time line for crew briefing' sheet could not continue. Oh and certain parts of the Curry Continent became three crew / layover destinations.

Is someone round here slowly waking up to the concept of corporate liability and the power of modern media? Or maybe just attempting to cover their tracks to shelter from what will be the eventual fallout, when the proverbial hits the fan?

Interesting days ahead me thinks .....

[Fire Ball XL5]

Silence from WSJ is perhaps due to being emasculated by the powers that be from previously written article, or from Editor in Chief feeling the heat from powers above... hit a nerve I'm sure.
Follow on articles once in the works, seem to be sitting on the sidelines.:oh:

[natops]

Wtf is going on....

Mid-bid and oooooonly turnarounds.
B777

N.

[SOPS]

The 777 is taking over 330 flights?

[GoreTex]

7 turns in 5 years, but my plane doesn't carry much cargo

[harry the cod]

Fret not GoreTex, a few years from now when all the 380's are up and running and the 2 class behemoth is earning its keep, that post of yours will read '7 turns in 5 weeks!' India awaits........

Personally, I like the variety of the layovers and turnarounds, just not at 0300!

Harry

[GoreTex]

Harry,

not for me, one PPC left until eternal freedom :D

and I am still upset that my plane was not built to carry more cargo, its only good to carry passengers

[SOPS]

Well done GoreTex.:ok::ok:

[CR9]

777 Left seat... Not one day off or trip I bid for. 8 days off 96hrs, living the dream!:rolleyes:

[bia botal]

The record is struck, left seat 777, nothing I bidded for, 96 hrs, 8 days off? :D

[Panther 88]

Two weeks leave (lucky me with peak leave) with of course a turnaround the day before. But the two weeks prior only TWO Xdays in 16 days. All legal of course. The cubicle dwellers get more than that. YGTBSM :mad:

[SOPS]

And that is why Panther, I took the ' if you don't like it leave' option. I know many cant, due to financial constraints.

But, I have to say, consider your long term health, because I can tell you, not flying EK rosters for 4 months, I am feeling normal.

[flareflyer]

And the petrol is going up 25% from 1 of august........
:ugh::yuk:

[BigGeordie]

But that is okay because diesel has come down so distribution costs will fall and everything in the shops will get cheaper when they pass the savings on. They will pass the savings on, won't they?

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Unreal, absolutely sweet FA I bid for.

I know they were fiddling as a purser friend said I was on her flight a couple of days back, and voila now I am not :ugh::ugh:

Maybe they are gonna say what a marvellous new improvement next month, with the new system.

98 hours :yuk:

SyB :zzz:

[natops]

first 2+weeks of, then 63 hours in 11 days

Naaaaiz

[JammedStab]

96 Hours and 16 unpaid hours for 2 days of ground school.
30 days of leave with more than 20 of them forced.
Way too much work, way too much greed from the company.



Reminds me of a Monty python skit of the "Four Yorkshireman" and "living in a shoebox in the middle of the road".




"Well we had it tough.
We had to scrape the frost off the wings, load the freight ourselves, help the maintenance guys, clean the aircraft, fly an NDB approach to minimums in crosswind with no autoland, keep a gun in the aircraft for bears, fly overweight and get paid minimal wages."

"But you know, we were happy in those days even though we were poor."

"Because we were poor. My old man used to say 'Hours don't bring you happiness son"

"He was right. I was happier then and we had nothing. We used to have to sleep in our cockpit seats".

"Cockpit seats? You were lucky to have cockpit seats to sleep in. We used to sleep in a crew rest area with bunks, two at a time and you could hear the toilet flush and occasionally, the other guy snored"

"You were lucky to have a crew rest area near the toilet. We used to have to sleep in the OVERHEAD crew rest area in the ceiling with no extra noise and the beds angled to compensate for the nose-up attitude of the aircraft."

"Oh, we used dream of resting in the in an overhead crew rest area! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to rest in a water tank in the rubbish storage area. We got woke up every few hours to go back to the cockpit by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! Crew rest area? Huh."

"You were lucky to have the water tank. There were a hundred and fifty of us sleeping in economy class"

"Premium Economy?" "Yes" "You were lucky. We used to rest in an rolled up inflight magazine in the waste tank. We had to wake up and clean the magazine, eat an extra first class meal, sit in the right seat for several hours and when the second crew rest came, the captain would thrash us to sleep with his belt."

"We were evicted from our crew rest area; we 'ad to go and sleep in the wheel well".

"Luxury,
We had to wake up a 11 pm in our company paid villa, push the company limo to work and then lick the runway clean with our tongues prior to taxiing our A380, pay the airline owner a 40,000 dollar bond for the right to work, be on duty 26 hours a day due to time zone crossings, eat our special meals, work with 14-20 young exotic stewardesses, have layovers in in the world's premium cities and when we got to the hotel, the maids would drive us crazy with their incessant loud talk and slamming of doors."

"But you try and tell the young pilot's that today... and they won't believe ya'."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

[InnocentBystander]

9 days off. 91 Hrs. plus one Sim. 777 left.

This is beyond ridiculous.

[harry the cod]

SyB

Why is it unreal? Correct me if I'm wrong but with a rotating bid system, should we not expect to get our requested trips and days off only in the top few months.....not when you're second from bottom! Come back and complain in January when it's your turn for the pick of the crop, I might have a bit more empathy then!

Harry

[furbpilot]

You all convinced capitalists... face it. Everything started going south after 1989. Untamed capitalism is bringing everybody back to slavery.
Time for a global union.

[haveago]

Top Bid! LHS 8 days off 8 turns 2 layovers no days off that I requested. 65 hours of ****e! Guess which fleet??? I would take 90 hours over this every month! Different Airline on this glorious BUS!!

[White none please]

777 LHS , 7 days AL, and they still squeezed in 82 hrs!😩😂😂😡😡😡😴😴😴😴

[Fuzuma]

Hi Gents,

Is there any chance you are able to PM your rosters to me please, I'm very interested to see how the rosters look?

Thank you very much.....

[kipper the dog]

Haha! Good luck with that one Fuzuma, don't hold your breath pal.

[Monarch Man]

Fuzuma it's unlikely you will see a roster on account of the pervasive and punitive nature of the social media policy at EK along with the ever present fear that certain elements within the organisation use this forum to spread mis-information, and thus they can also identify individuals on here by sighting their roster.
Don't hold your breath waiting for a roster, just take it at face value that the rosters spoken about are indeed happening.

[TIMINGandLUCK]

777 FO....97 hours rostered, 9 days off. After next month I will have flown 370 hours in 4 months including a ground school and PPC. No wonder we are all trying to get out of this prison.

[Fuzuma]

Monarch Man,

Thanks for the reply, had a blonde moment and didn't put 2 and 2 together with regards to exposing the true identity, an honest mistake and embarrassing on my part! :rolleyes:

I've never thought for a second that the roster claims are untrue, just trying to see what sort of rest periods on a flight pairing you guys are receiving and how many days off in DXB before departing again on the next pairing.

[nolimitholdem]

"Days off in DXB"?! hahah!

Real life example. Arrive back from t/a flight, landing around 0100. Home/bed around 0230. Up around 0930. Pickup for next flight: 2330 the same day for next flight departing 0145.

Or, perhaps you get a day off. But that's it - literally one day. Typically, one three day off block in a month with the rest single days and perhaps two in a row.

The best way to get more days off in a row is during leave. But then, they roster an entire month of flying in the remaining days, with no regards to roster bidding - anything goes, to get the maximum productivity. There is no point in bidding in months you have leave. (Actually, with the new system in place, there's no point in bidding at all, but that's another topic.)

It's no kind of life. As noted in the KAL roadshow thread, there is a stampede for the door. No matter what lies told by management.

[QCM]

...based in India...layovers in DXB...

[White Knight]

I don't know NLH... Middle bid and 13 days off with one block of 4 and one of 5... 91 hours, happily about 24 in a bunk with my earplugs stuffed in...

Believe me, I sleep like a log in that CRC.

Just sayin'

[nolimitholdem]

Yep, you're livin' the dream, no doubt! lol

And those of us who've left, aren't sure whether to laugh or feel pity...myself, laughter...pity is wasted on the clueless.

Just sayin'.

[Kapitanleutnant]

White Knight…

Perhaps you could take a position with the Pilot Recruiting Division for Emirates Airline. This is just what they told me so many years ago!! Sounded dreamy! Who wouldn't want your roster? :-)

K

[Fuzuma]

White Knight, et al

Please could someone offer some clarity, and put the barbecue arguments to bed, regarding the rostered hard hours at EK.

When stating the rostered hours for the month, is or isn't bunk time accounted for/included, there is a lot of arguments amongst other airline pilots that you are not credited for time in the bunk, whether 2 crew ops or including 3/4 crew ops.

If someone could explain the policy in layman terms avoiding company acronyms that would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much for any clarity.......

[Deep and fast]

I was told at one of the roadshows that bunk time is counted for flight duty limits but not for total duty.

I'm interested to know if this was accurate.

[WhiteFly]

We get payed for full block time. But hard limit for legalities is non-bunk time so for instance I flew 930 hours last 12 months..

Regarding roster I got 73 hours and 13 days off and 2 days ground bottom bid !
Fat bus left seat by the way

Cant complain...

[natops]

When we, as crew, talk about rostered hours per month, we count every minute in the airplane.
E.g. 99 hours... This is what we get paid.
Times to wards yr legal limits , e.g. 100 hrs in 28 days, is this time less the bunk time.

So you can fly easily more than 900 hours per year in n airplane as crew, and still be legal. This is 900 hrs per year because the bunk is not counted toward the legal limit.

Fair in my eyes? Hell no! Truth, f@&$k yes.

The overtime hours are paid less than the normal hours. And flying into overtime is scheduled without asking us, almost every month now.

All ground duties like Safety recurrents, profchecks, crm recurrents are all not counted towards yr legal limits.
So e.g. 99 rostered hours +3 profcheck days + ..... Is a lot per month... And believe me, you endup having hardly days off. And when yr lucky to have a few days off on a row, you probably endup trying to get the missus on yr side, while dealing with the jetlag, this is a really nice combination...

A bit more clear Fuzuma?

Living the dream mate....

[Fuzuma]

Hi Gents,

Thank you so much for the replies, all clear and good to go at the next "myth busters" session around the fire after a few cold ones!

[The Zohan]

Actually Fuzuma, bunk time doesn't count towards the limits only if you're augmenting. If you're the operating crew bunk time counts 100%.

For example if you're operating to JFK on a 14 hours flight and augmenting back on a 13 hours flight you'll be payed 27 hours but only 20 hours (14 + 6) will count towards the limits..

tz

[Fuzuma]

Hi TZ,

Thanks for the reply, so just to make sure I've got this a 100% correct and don't enter into an argument around the barbecue and am actually wrong, all hours rostered are credited towards pay and limits, except if you're the augmenting crew...... In which case you're still paid the hours regardless of bunk time.......but the bunk time is not added to your legal total?

Thanks for the clarification, you won't believe the stories/rumours that are floating around in other airlines regarding what the EK policy is with hours and limits, so it's greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[donpizmeov]

I would suggest you go to other BBQs.

[Shaky Hands]

After a string of months running into productivity, I was niave in looking forward to my 10 days leave in October. However 72 hours crammed into the remaining 20 days with minimal off days and working until the evening before leave is just desperate. The company seems rudderless or in denial and their inactions have now led to these sustained poor roster practices of max hours, mixing ULR, long and short haul, back of the clock flying. i think it's past time that the Management (I use the expression lightly) step up and make a firm commitment to sort this crisis out before something snaps. New CRS is just swapping seats on the Titanic! Yes I do I know the answer to my problem 👍🏼

[SOPS]

They are in denial. Have been for ages. Nothing will change.

[Kapitanleutnant]

…. as long as AAR is in charge, SOPS is correct.

[Alconguin Crusader]

I got you beat Shaky;
21 days leave, 44 hours flown two years ago August.
It is just mind boggling what they do to us.

[CaptainChipotle]

22 days of leave in oct, 7 rostered days of work and over 47hrs. Yes time in bunks but seriously!?!?

[Kapitanleutnant]

110 hours… is that even possible even with bunk time??? 8 days off?

Just wow……

K

[320goat]

If any of you guys have friends in QR have a word and find out what their rosters are like, if life is as bad as you say it is then worth a look (I admittedly don't know what they are recruiting for right now but who knows for the future). Doha is no Dubai but the way the rosters are at the moment I could spend 12 days a month on average in Dubai (I actually have 16 days off at base this month with no leave).


It may not be like this forever, but at the moment life is good.


I know we have been the poor relation in the ME for some time, but are times a-changing?


Regards

[ExDubai]

As far as I know the direct exit/entry Emirates/Qatar and vice versa is still closed.

[SOPS]

110 hours. Is it possible to function with any degree of safety with a roster of 110 hours? Let alone what it must be doing for your health.

[gasnhaul]

Newbie here...just a quick couple of questions.

I've been reading a lot of the posts but as an outsider looking in some of the terminology escapes me. So, are you guys seriously getting lines that only have 8 days off per month? Are the lines a 28 day or 30 day bid period?

Next, the leave/vacation. How many days is it per year and how many days can you use per month in a row? Is it limited?

I'm flying for a US based cargo outfit. The conditions here are very brutal so EK actually sounds like an improvement. Try flying with a double crew for a 30 hour duty day:eek: And we have to be at the airplane 2+30 prior to departure (3+30 show in the lobby). And I've gone from Japan to Germany in a 2 day span after performing a double crew flight, all on the back side of the clock (of course after crossing that many time zones in such a short period backside of the clock is a moot point)...talk about wrecking your body!

And we are short on folks as well with many leaving so I typically fly 80-90 hours but do so in 17 days. BUT after flying for 17 days and getting pretty beat up I get home and have 13 or 14 days off. I've been considering EK and am very familiar with Dubai and the living conditions but if you guys are only getting 8 days at home per month I don't think that is something I or the wife can deal with...

[SOPS]

You can't use any leave in a row per month. You are lucky to get any leave,
. And when you get it, they will cram in so much flying into the month you have 'leave ', it is just a punishment for having leave.

I was told at my interview that I,could bid for days off and add leave days to it.

It was a,complete lie. But once you are in, there is,no recourse back.

And, I'm out of it now, but ask the other guys about 14 days off a month. Might happen on the
380, but I'm not sure about the other fleets.

[Kapitanleutnant]

Gasnhaul..

You say you don't like only 8 days off a month? Then Ek is probably not going to make you happy.

It's not just the ridiculously unsafe rostering that you have to deal with… it's the complete company culture of punishment at the silliest things to westerners that you just roll your eyes, shake your head and deal with it… as your only recourse is to leave.

And don't forget… if you DO want to leave there's this little thing called a bond which as I understand it is now at a whopping 50K Dollars US if you decide to leave before that 3 year bond is paid off.

Leave is advertised at 42 days per year but seldom given due to the shortage and there are some instances where you'll get them in groups of 5 days only, which for some or most, equates to not much more than a long weekend.

Finally, your rostering at your airline is better than at EK believe it or not in that you mentioned you get a few weeks off every other month or some such? No such thing at EK… you'll fly your 97 hours per month of unsustainable rosters month after month with absolutely no breaks until that coveted vacation comes around 6, 7 or 8 months later. You're a complete zombie by this time.
Oh, and that vacation that you need so badly?? It's not credited at all so if you have 2 weeks vacation for example, the other two weeks Ek will completely squeeze every single second of time in there to make you fly around 60 plus hours during that two weeks. Same with sims… no credit so you'll fly much more during that month.

There is SO much more to EK that what you see… kinda like the tip of the ice berg syndrome. There's a lot worse that you simply don't see nor will you be able to really digest from what those of us who've experienced it, endured and tried to explain to fellow countrymen asking us what it's like at EK. It's like nothing you can even imagine. Great crews to fly with, all extremely professional and that was one thing that kept me going for time there. The flying operation will be similar but that's about all thats similar.

My two fils

Kap

[gasnhaul]

Thanks guys for the info.

Most of the ACMI carriers at home offer a 17(ish) day on (typically all done in a row) and then the rest of the month off. So say you work the 1st thru the 17th, the 18th thru the 30th or 31st is then time off. And, like at the beginning of this year I worked a month for the first half, then took vacation during the next month (which I only had to use 14 days which were covered by my bid so the rest of the month was off) and then back halfed the following month...meaning two months off for 14 days of vacation used. Guess nothing even close to this could happen at EK.

I saw the 8 days off a month on the website and thought it had to be a mistake. Even the worst of the lot in the US, the commuters on reserve, get a MINIMUM of 11 days off per month and I thought they had it bad...

Is the work schedule on all fleets the same? Is this a temporary thing or something that will continue? I can definitely say I wouldn't even think of entertaining the thought of coming here if this is a permanent situation...

And, Kap, I believe the bond is now 5 years and $45K US:eek:

Gas