Where have all the instructor jobs gone?

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Just been looking at a wannabees thread and one of the moderators sugested to a 185Hr CPL/IR not to bother getting a instructors rating to build hours and keep current cos theres no jobs

Luckily I got my FI(R) 2yrs ago and found gainful employment however i thought that the JAA ATPL thingy was going to create an instructor shortage?

Just a downturn in GA or instructor numbers "backing up" because the airlines aren't recruiting?

PS whats the hourly going rate for a derestricted FI with the applied IF restriction lifted?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

That would be me then.

£5,500 is a bit too much of a gamble at the moment for someone without contacts in flight training.

I know of at least 4 instructors who are only just getting enough hours to get by or who can't make it pay and are driving taxi's etc.

And this is peak season.

WWW

[robione]

Make that 5 . Im a frozen ATPL- ppl/ instrument instructor bashing around the streets of L,pool in a black cab.Its paying the bills and the bank loan.Ive got just over 500 hrs and unrestricted instructor.Ive got a stack of thanks but bo thanks letters stuck in the draw at the mo.Personally i dont think its a good time to be an instructor, but we must soldier on folks.Ive been feeling bad about the situation of late,but a dose of pprune usually helps to let u know you are not alone. I gave up my career as a well paid Disc-Jockey to do it, ive recently become a member of the[Single men Brigade} having to suffer the humiliation of the long standing live in lover suddenly becoming not so understanding, and giving me my marching orders. Im now living in a rented flat with a broken heart and shattered dreams.Give up? not on your nelly. If you are feeling down about the current situation i always remember the saying: NO MATTER HOW BAD YOU FEEL , THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEBODY ELSE IN A MUCH WORSE SITUATION.Its always good to remember, i live in the hope that predictions from well informed individuals on these forums will eventually come true, im sure they will.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Chin up mate. Sounds like a crap time. Things perhaps can only get better?

WWW

[Ivan Ivanovich]

Mm, I think the hope for instructors was that the JAA changes would create the predicted shortages in instructors by removing the self improver route - the hope being that a shortage could trigger an improvement in pay and conditions for PPL instructors.

When the airline industry nose dived a little last Autumn considerable numbers of newly qualified CPL/IR holders added the £5.5k investment to their debt and gained instructor ratings. Couple this with the fact that many flying schools also felt the effects of the post JAR deadline lull in PPL students, and we have a plethora of instructors.

Furthermore, all the instructors from SFT and Oxford Air Training who lost their jobs recently, not to mention those PPL schools that ceased trading recently (European Flyers etc) put large numbers of experienced instructors onto the market place.

If you're under 35 the £5.5K could be better invested in the CTC scheme, or perhaps save your money and pay your debts off with a normal job whilst waiting for things to improve (you're hardly likely to be in a position to begin paying debts off and provide a living for yourself if working as an instructor!)

Whatever - good luck

Ivan

[nasib]

Robione,

Sorry to hear about your domestic problems:(

Glad to hear you are keeping your chins up.
Is your weight more in line with your height now?

Don't let the illigimates get you down.:D

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Robione

Chin up mate

Just to cheer you up may I suggest a new Forum for Stout Instructors. Im 6ft and 17.5 stone

Anybody beat that and still instruct in a 150. ;)

[robione]

Thanks for the kind words of inspiration chaps,my chin is firmly up.I, like a lot of other people have got to be patient and wait for upturn which i hope is in the not to distant future.
G-SPOTs.
Despite NASIB,S [NOSEDRAGGER] comments about an alledged weight problem, i wish u good luck in your endevours for a STOUT INSTRUCTORS FORUM.He,s taking the micky.Again despite a bizzare statement made to me whilst renewing my class1 by the doctor, unfortunately in the company of the CFI from Bristol who was in the same room.YOUR WEIGHT IS NOT IN LINE WITH YOUR HEIGHT?.Im 5ft 10inches at 13 stone, spreads like wildfire springs to mind, i never lived it down.

[Speedjeans]

well I must be the luckest guy in the world as after being unemployed for two years after getting my CPL/IR and only a week after getting my FI rating I got a job so just hang in there...
And keep your chin up samething happened to me and my girl... Now I'm gay and I don't have the same problemwith blokes!
Only joking big feller... I love birds me!
Cheers
SJ's

[whisperbrick]

Don't worry guys,if you want to fly commercially get some weight on: I'm 5'9" and 16 stone and most of the captains I flew with were fat b******s (but lovely people), although now my career has been osama bin sunk I can't afford to eat regularly !

Incidentally on my return to instructing I have been approached by two schools this week, so the jobs are out there just less movement !

[robione]

WHISPERBRICK

Sorry to see u have had to return to instructing, im assuming its not what you want to do. Had a peek at your profile and can see you have been flying commercially, and i think it would be interesting to hear your story about whats brought on your return to instructing. Merely an opinion here, but i think if i was a flying school owner you would be an attractive employee with your experience of commercial operations and previous instructing, a bit of an all-rounder{nothing to do with your weight]. At least you have managed to get some instructing that will keep u current . Good luck to you.:) :)

[whisperbrick]

Thanks robione,

yes it will be good to fly anything to be honest, been on the ground for three months ! Although instructing doesn,t pay much i have considered doing other things and I just cannot stomach the idea of working in an office or driving a van if I can fly something.

My career has been a bit chaotic:
2 years instructing with cabair
1 1/2 years instructing elsewhere
1 year flying bizjets
1 year flying nightfreight jets (left to join a defunct low cost operator, who went bust during my notice period !! )
2 years flying scheduled pax 146s

made redundant at the end of march due to the fall out of 11/9.

2 months of enjoying myself and finally got round to renewing the instructor rating (after 4 years out bit rusty).

I don't know if the commercial bit helps, but I guess as i did 1,800 odd hours instructing that holds good, although all the new jar ppl stuff was a bit of a mystery, but again what it has come down to is who you know (same for flying schools as airlines in that respect).


Anyway good luck yourself, hope you get to where you want to be !!

[BEagle]

Sometimes I wonder whether people work hard for their CPLs and then invest in a FI(R) rating - only to start instructing others who basically want to do the same thing?

Until there is some movement of labour in the air transport industry, there is really very little point in wannabes trying to use flight instruction as a method of 'hours building' - because there just simply isn't any point right now.

I am very fortunate. At my little Registered Facility I have recently taken on 4 FI(R)s. All are excellent instructors and they give their all to the benefit of our students. They know that, by virtue of our modus operandi, we cannot pay full time salaries and they accept that. I will wish them the very best of luck and will go out of my way to give them glowing references should they manage to secure an entry-level job in air transport; meanwhile I will continue to value their enthusiasm and application. It might seem to them as though they're serving an apprenticeship, but in reality they are given every encouragement to develop captaincy and to make command decisions. For example, one of them phoned me the other day with observations concerning a student's overconfidence and what she'd done about it; I told her that her decision was 100% correct, that I was grateful for her having brought the matter to my attention and that I would back her up totally. They may not realise it, but I deliberately supervise them discretely and at arm's length - so that they learn to make decisions at a formative stage of their flying careers. I've done the same thing with their predecessors, most of whom now have good First Officer jobs and one of whom is near to command. In fact a Chief Pilot once asked me how many more like the previous pilot he'd had that I could send him....

FI(R) work is NOT a golden route to the airlines. FTOs and RFs with any conscience don't work their FI(R)s to death - they encourage them to become very professional aviators. But at the moment there simply aren't the entry-level airline jobs around to stimulate movement in the flight instructional world, so don't assume that equipping yourself with a FI(R) Rating is the way ahead just now.........

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Interesting concept that..

I currently have a situation where some of my PPLS are currently approaching me to supervise their hourbuilding after completion of there ATPL exams.

Quite wierd really, I would like to take my instructional ability to the next level (ie PPl & Beyond) and Im taking this opportunity to experiment with these people (with their full informed consent of course).

Initial feedback seems to be that Im a little more aggressive with enforcing standards whilst in the air, but that seems to be explained away by me to them with the " Flying is fun but not for the next 12 months..." line delivered to me by a certain scouse/italian CPL instructor.

Is that the right approach? generally should CPL traing be less tolerant of repetitive mistakes than PPL training.

Answers on a postcard please.....

[hmm...]

Just when they said things couldn't get any lower, they did! :D

In the same boat and it sucks! But on the bright side at least I am doing what I have always wanted! (apart from the flying):p

But would you rather be in a dead end job with no future prospects, day in day out, or to see the world from a whole new prospective! Even if I only fly once a year, I still get that buzz!

Keep the faith brothers

[FormationFlyer]

G-SPOT
IMO yes. If they want you to help them hours build with CPL/IR in mind then yes. You must be more rigerous than PPL - somewhere I have a set of guidance notes for PPL/CPL test criteria...To obtain the maximum from hours building they should be aiming at learning to fly towards CPL accuracy. However, it is also important for them at this stage to have as many experiences as possible. For instance - if they didnt do spin training on their PPL (optional airex) I would advise them to go do an hour or two of spinning, perhaps some aeros, a taildragger course - all these help with basic control skills, confidence and situational awareness. Hope this helps!

BEagle
Crumbs! Dont half sound close to home for me that....numbers of new FI(A)(r) and all....I could well be im one of them...but even if Im not this sort of attitude from our supervising FIs is very gratifying.

Although on the way to the airlines myself instructing is not a means to an end...indeed if you are my CFI then rest assured im gonna be around for many many years to come - even when Im with the airlines...hence my continued commitment to instructing through becoming an applied instrument instructor.

On the subject of the airline route...for me an FI ratign wasn't in the plan as the route to an airline...and I personally dont think it should be - I think those who are motivated to do instructing as a form of hours building should really do something else...I have always talked about instructing and only recently managed to have the time/money & experience to make it happen. If others out there consider instructing 'easy hours' then either your view as a prospective instructor is way skewed, or if you are currently an instructor then you aren't doing it right. (IMO)

Instructing is hard work. Every flight you give a piece of yourself away, sometimes it goes badly - and you not only feel for the student but you question yourself - and next time you have to aim to resolve things...this can only be done through commitment - and if you heart isnt in it, you cannot give the required commitment; and if you cannot give the commitment then you are not giving your student the quality of teaching that they deserve.

As for prospective FI employment? I still think the jobs are there - in fact I *know* they are having been recently approached...but these jobs will go to people they know or word of mouth recommendations in the current climate. So getting your face about really is a must.

[Cruise Alt]

Hey G-SPOTs Lost

17 stone and instructing in a C150. Do your grateful students know the aircraft is uninsured because you are above MAUW and not operating within C of A?

[Field In Sight]

The aircraft limits are not exceeded if he only instructs midgets (sorry vertically challenged) or Lena Zavaroni types.:D

[Vagabond FI]

There are jobs out there, you just have to look hard to find them. If I, a week after getting my FI (r) (with a shiny new CPL and just over 200hrs) am able to get a full time job instructing then surely the more experienced guys out there are able to find work?
:confused:

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Cruise Alt

Get an instructors rating and tell your FTO manager you dont want to fly the 150 because we might be "Exceeding MAUW"

Having said that we could always ask the guy who has just turned up with his christmas present trial lesson voucher to step on the scales.

Yes you are right but open your eyes........

Wahayyyyy.............its the real world

:rolleyes: