Jetstar NZ [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

dijical

18th Jun 2015, 02:12

"The low cost carrier will use a fleet of five 50-seat Bombardier Q300 turbo-prop aircraft to fly to at least four regional centres initially.

Those cities being considered include Hamilton, Rotorua, New Plymouth, Napier and Palmerston North in the North Island and Nelson and Invercargill in the South Island."

Due to start in December.

CAR42ZE

18th Jun 2015, 02:18

Do they have enough Q300s for these shenanigans?

EDIT: just read the other thread, I now understand...

c100driver

18th Jun 2015, 02:19

In negotiation with regional centres!

That is code for "how much will you subsidise our entry into your airport with cheap leases and landing fees".

empacher48

18th Jun 2015, 02:20

Big question is how they will crew them..

Are they going to be crew seconded to NZ on Eastern terms, or are they going to be employed in NZ with NZ terms which will be less than Eastern?

One way means this expansion into regional NZ will fail.. The other could mean the end of the current terms in Australia..

Anotherday

18th Jun 2015, 03:34

Last time Ansett/Qantas tried this it wasn't until the creditors report came out that it was obvious no one running a turboprop against AirNZ has ever made any money doing it. The accountants spun the numbers for on-travel pax to make the turboprop operation look better than it was.
Good luck and hope there's lots of new jobs but unless the main trunk is happy subsidizing the turboprops, this venture is doomed.
There isn't the population increase outside of Auckland over the past decade to change the numbers much from 10 yrs ago.
But , as I said, good luck anyway. If you're unconvinced, have a look at the creditors report for AnsettNZ/Qantas NZ and crunch the numbers.

Luke SkyToddler

18th Jun 2015, 04:05

Ewan Wilson must be spewing ... headshot by the big boys AGAIN, before he's even got off the ground this time :{

bazza stub

18th Jun 2015, 04:17

And Tasmania?! Qantas pulling jets out of TAS again?

Joyce must own shares in virgin or something :ok:

wishiwasupthere

18th Jun 2015, 04:36

Jetstar operating turboprops on NZ wages and conditions??? Guess it won't take so long for pilots in this part of the world to be on food stamps!

Going Nowhere

18th Jun 2015, 04:49

All the 300s are operated by Eastern on the register, and all the 400s are operated by Sunstate.

It's local terms so possibly a new company using the Aus AOC.

QLink pilots may be able to go on LWOP to NZ "subject to crewing requirements in Aus" so read that as a no expect for a few token ppl.

Not that there'll be a big rush of ppl to head to NZ except for a few homesock kiwis.

sahni

18th Jun 2015, 05:48

I am sure AirNZ top management will scratch their heads when looking at their share price drop of almost 10% after the announcement.

lilflyboy262...2

18th Jun 2015, 05:51

Or for a few of us that are still banging around in the piston pounders!

carbonneutral

18th Jun 2015, 06:53

Almost...

Qlink AOC and operation, flown by pilots employed by a new local entity (separate to both Eastern and Jetstar NZ), managed by Jetstar NZ.

Clear as mud.

Skystar320

18th Jun 2015, 09:10

I reckon good on them for giving it a stab.

Years and Years have gone where AirNz have been the only domestic carrier flying regional routes and as a result have stabbed the residents in the back with hefty fares. Now with Q300 of Jetstar NZ coming in it is really going to shake up the market.

Just shows you that the Air NZ investors are getting itchy with a 10% drop in the share price today and I wonder how long it will go on for, with American Airlines coming in and providing a better service than whats offered is really going to knock AirNz.

Its about time they have had some competetion - the likes of Qantas or Virgin Australia would love to be a sole operation airline

Sqwark2000

18th Jun 2015, 10:38

with American Airlines coming in and providing a better service than whats offered is really going to knock AirNz.

You're joking aren't you?!? Better service than AirNZ!?

American Airlines ranks in the bottom half of 15 U.S. airlines, and have done for the last few years. How do you think that is better than AirNZ's 2 time winner of the Skytrax Airline of the Year awards, and multitude of other international awards, the most recent being a clean sweep of the 2015 Premium Economy awards this week?

Your statement is more ludicrous than the 747 on a treadmill theory.....

framer

18th Jun 2015, 10:57

I'm interested in what the pay will be like, I'd guess it will be about 85% of what an Air Nelson pilot gets for the same rank.
For that matter, what is the pay range for F/O's and Captains at Air Nelson?

TBM-Legend

18th Jun 2015, 12:41

Jetstar regionals in Oz next after this experiment...:hmm:

busdriver007

18th Jun 2015, 19:16

Gifted Q300s from Qantaslink and free Check and Training from them as well. Along with interest-free loans written off after 12 months. Jetstar NZ set the trend for all the JQ franchises in 2011 by being given a $15 million loan from Jetconnect and then having it written off after twelve months and booking the profit as the interest it would of paid if it had. Another winner!

PPRuNeUser0184

18th Jun 2015, 19:40

Sorry but isn't this a good thing? Expansion in NZ means more jobs for local pilots. Cheap fares for locals to regional ports. Competition for Air NZ will bring down their prices.

I fail to see how this is anything other than a good thing.

Not everything is doom and gloom people.

waren9

18th Jun 2015, 20:03

they grew the nz market with the 320's enabling more bogans and students to fly more regularly. fleet size has since stalled, despite the amazing operation.

the dash8's will do exactly the same. another money soak for the qantas machine

contract will be horrific and just a paid job search, just like the 320 job has been for many.

hopefully some good news for any ex vincent guys still out there.

PPRuNeUser0184

18th Jun 2015, 20:52

contract will be horrific and just a paid job search, just like the 320 job has been for many.

200K for Captain/120K for F/O (NZD) on the A320 is hardly "horrific".

waren9

18th Jun 2015, 21:03

i said has been, not is. dunno about nowadays

how much overtime you need for 200k?

fortybelow

18th Jun 2015, 21:33

So where does one apply? (to find out if it is horrific or merely average to poor...)

Ollie Onion

18th Jun 2015, 22:36

No overtime last year and my mate took home 195k with his ZQN supplement. Not exactly a bad contract.

This will be good for NZ, it will mean some recruitment onto a pretty good aircraft for a group of pilots who would be consigned to GA for the next few years. Jetstar NZ may not be a career airline but it has given 'lot's' of young guys and girls their start in aviation. Not everyone can work for AIR NZ mainline.

waren9

18th Jun 2015, 22:51

take home 195k is like 260k gross? my word. that is doing well.

agreed. more turbo prop jobs arent necessarily a bad thing.

sahni

18th Jun 2015, 23:02

Whats the point of talking about Jetstar's jet salaries? The Q300 crew will be far less paid! To gain any ground in this (about to commence) price battle Jetstar will only pay Air Nelson rates, if that!

Lepper Messiah

18th Jun 2015, 23:38

Do you think there will be more A320s in NZ to complement the increased jetstar traffic (connections etc) ?

Will be interesting to see where they get their pilots. There is a fair bit of movement slated in the next 18 months,- Air NZ/link, Jetconnect virgin, possibly jetstar jet etc...

F/Os will probably never be difficult, they will only have to lower minimum entry requirements, plus there are plenty of Aussie pilots willing to come over and swamp the NZ industry if need be. But captains ?
Sure if they based in the regions such as Napier there may be a few from Air Nelson due their base closures but apart from that..... ?

I guess its all about the money and I don't count on there being plenty

framer

18th Jun 2015, 23:47

What's the pay range at Air Nelson? I'd be willing to bet it will be a good shot short of their pay.

XRNZAF

19th Jun 2015, 00:27

Ask Grant Kerr what the pay and conditions are like at Air NSN... Pretty sure he'll remember.

framer

19th Jun 2015, 01:02

Who's Grant Kerr?

scon

19th Jun 2015, 01:23

Former head of Air Nelson ( and I think Eagle before that? ), now the head of Jet* NZ.

Ollie Onion

19th Jun 2015, 01:28

Sorry, it was a bad choice of words. His Gross pay was $195k for the last tax year and he just emailed and said in that 12 months he did 496 hours. So sounds pretty good to me.

chimbu warrior

19th Jun 2015, 03:19

As to the question of where they will get their Captains, I imagine this will bring a smile to the face of quite a few Kiwis currently flying similar equipment for PX.

A pity there won't be a Nelson base........

sahni

19th Jun 2015, 05:28

Unless they are already on B scale in PX the pay cut will be significant.

But I guess there are quite a number of Air Nelson F/O ready and keen for a command upgrade.

framer

19th Jun 2015, 07:14

But I guess there are quite a number of Air Nelson F/O ready and keen for a command upgrade.
I would be surprised if the AOC holders risk mitigation tool spat out a result of " very low risk" when the input was ' lets hire first officers and upgrade them to Captain at the recruitment stage'.
With that in mind I'd wager that all of the Captains recruited will have previously held part 121 commands and most probably on the Dash.

#1AHRS

19th Jun 2015, 07:28

Interesting and a little bit of recent history. Air NZ had announced, with some fanfare, a reasonable profit and then shortly after that announced that they were cutting services to the reigions. They said it was because the routes were unprofitable.
Fair enough, but as an entire group our "national airline" had made a profit and the regions of NZ also had a reasonable service, albeit a monopoly one. So much for being the National airline.

So the regions, those who had also helped bail our Air NZ when they went down the gurgler over the Ansett saga, got screwed. But hey thats business...

Looks like the Aussies with deep pockets have spotted an opportunity and are going to enter the NZ regional market. That's business and may the best airline win.

Lots of good things happening here, jobs for some Kiwi boys, jobs for some expat kiwi boys and a fair deal for Joe blogs kiwi traveller.

Also it appears that a few Aussie chests are puffed out at the opportunity to come and show some grass skirt wearers how to fly Dash 8's in their own country. Bearing in mind that the Dash 8 has been in NZ almost continuously since the mid 80's, this will serve to enlight our Australian friends, that OCTA is really class G airspace, Aotearoa is actually quite descriptive, there is icing and that the hills around Cairns and Hobart are just that, Hills.

Good for everyone.

outboundjetsetter

19th Jun 2015, 07:30

sounds good i think .. any real competition can only be a good thing and they have some pockets to fund it.. Would be great if they had a base in a nice sunny town like Nelson/Napier/Gissy..tauranga etc i think many pilots and crews would appreciate living in such towns where rents and houses are more affordable they would do well with happy crews, a bit of surf and sun.. and much better lifestyles than living in other main cites such as AKL/CHCH where know one on a turbo prop wage can afford decent housing these days!.. Jetstar could probably negotiate better terms to base aircraft in a smaller town than leaving them on the tarmac in AKL too? .. on another note..

In Paris this week Mt cook placed more orders on the ATR 600 so within a couple of years will have about 25 ATRs...
Air Nelson have about 23 dash 8's..., maybe kiwi regional will have 3/4 saab 340's?
with eagle phasing out, and jet stars 5 dash 8's + the odd Convair/metro operating with air Chathams, i reckon there will be around 60+ turbo prop aircraft with 50 or more seats operating scheduled regular public transport flights in NZ within 2-3 years..is it sustainable? or will this end in someone once again being squeezed out undercut and going belly up to the shock and surprise of many?

haughtney1

19th Jun 2015, 07:37

Bahhh humbug, give it a few years of predatory AirNZ pricing to kill off the competition, then all will return to normal, cookie time cookie or kumura chups anyone?

#1AHRS

19th Jun 2015, 07:43

or will this end in someone once again being squeezed out undercut and going belly up to the shock and surprise of many?

Well that's better than a race to the bottom price ending in a smoking hole in the ground. Let's hope sense prevails and it's all well financed.

B772

19th Jun 2015, 08:56

We may see Peter Vincent back in the Dash 8.

Gate_15L

19th Jun 2015, 09:43

Onya Jetstar....!

More Props, More jobs :ok:

At least if you screw up a Recruit To Group interview, it doesn't have to mean self imposed exile out of NZ to get further ahead in your career. And thats gotta be a good thing.

Who knows, 5 Q300 might just be the start of it. Sure they'll cherry pick. Add a Jetstar AKL-LAX flight with the A330/787 into the mix and it might be a winner. Hell, why not even entertain the idea of the 19 seat market that Air NZ just vacated. That would give the Koru the $hit$.....

slamer.

19th Jun 2015, 10:45

Stranded Jetstar passengers on move

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201525/SCCZEN_A_100609NZHGBJETSTAR1_620x310.jpg

Frustrated Jetstar passengers left stranded after their flight to Queenstown was detoured are once again en route to their original destination by coach.
The passengers had been left stranded in Christchurch after their flight from Auckland was detoured. They then endured a lengthy coach ride that was forced to return to Christchurch as roads closed due to bad weather.
After starting out with 120 passengers, only 40 were now on their way to Queenstown by coach for a second time, traveller Nicola Murphy said.
"From 120 yesterday, it's now turned to 40 so I don't know what's happened to everybody else."
Some passengers had opted to give up entirely on Jetstar and pay for flights with Air New Zealand, she said.
Ms Murphy said her and the other remaining passengers had been on the road since 9am and were in the "middle of nowhere". She said they had not heard anything from Jetstar throughout the whole journey.

"I've got no idea what's happening with Jetstar, but they've made no contact with anyone," she said.
Following the first failed coach trip, the company put the stranded passengers in a Christchurch hotel overnight, while some stayed in Timaru.
The passengers were on flight JQ279 from Auckland yesterday morning.
Ms Murphy said when she finally arrived in Queenstown she would try and enjoy what was left of her holiday before flying out on Monday. The trip had ended up taking her two days, rather than two hours.
Jetstar could not be reached for further comment, but a spokesman said earlier today they would be "keeping in touch" with affected passengers.

WOOLLY

20th Jun 2015, 00:30

I gather ANZ would have got them to QN in those conditions.:confused:

waren9

20th Jun 2015, 01:34

not so much that as the passenger handling considerations

with jetstar no longer doing chc-zqn, chc is about as far from zqn as you can get in their network. back to akl may have been better options for the passengers. atleast the bus ride from dud would've been shorter.

i think the jq279 aircraft goes back to akl anyway, so considering the flying for the rest of the day, akl may have been a better option. and most of the passengers would be no worse off back where they started.

still, not knowing the wx forecasts/other considerations etc on the day so a bit harsh to hindsight the crew involved.

Ollie Onion

20th Jun 2015, 01:56

Quite often with a full load and a wet runway expected in ZQN you CAN'T carry enough fuel for the return to AKL due landing wieght considerations. Your options are CHC, DUD and INV. On that day only CHC was available. I don't see what this story proves, every airline gets caught be the weather every now and then, see the Air NZ story from last year.

Trapped passengers want investigation into 'nightmare' journey - National News | TVNZ (http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/trapped-passengers-want-investigation-into-nightmare-journey-5970521)

empacher48

20th Jun 2015, 02:10

Certainly don't fault the tech crew with the issue of people being dropped in CHC, that is down to SOPs, runway issue with ZQN and local weather.

But unfortunately for the passengers, once they are off the flight, Jetstar appeared to drop the ball. But it has happened in the past with Air NZ getting road travel stuffed up with people stuck in busses when roads were closed unexpectedly. It does appear in NZ that Jetstar doesn't learn from these events.

It is good to have competition in the regions in NZ, but with only 5 Dash 8s it does appear to be more of a token effort going against a fleet of 48 Dash 8s and ATRs (by 2017).

If they had come in with 10 or 15 and been keen to operate to more destinations, then they would be a serious threat.

limitedrisk

20th Jun 2015, 10:42

with jetstar no longer doing chc-zqn, chc is about as far from zqn as you can get in their network. back to akl may have been better options for the passengers. atleast the bus ride from dud would've been shorter.

i think the jq279 aircraft goes back to akl anyway, so considering the flying for the rest of the day, akl may have been a better option. and most of the passengers would be no worse off back where they started.

Waren 9: A friendly tip. Don't comment on what you know nothing about. Stick to your control steps that don't in any way imitate a standard jet descent profile.

JQ279 goes across the Tasman after ZQN.
AKL is 5th on the list of diversion airports.
Perhaps DUD was not appropriate. Any comments on all the other diversion airports available?

Once the pax were handed to the recovery team, it's got nothing to do with the pilots.

Question: why did a bus driver with 50 people on board not consult the NZTA website to see that the Lindis Pass was snowed in and required chains, then subsequently closed completely. Obviously comm break down between JQ and bus company, but a bus drivers job surely has some responsibility....