New PPL Syllabus document - CAP1298 & 1299

[Broadlands]

This document was given to me by our ops manager who was forwarded from a third party.

I have looked on the CAA website latest news and it is not mentioned so it looks like it has just appeared as another CAP without telling anyone.

Have I missed something ie, was it announced. I don't think it is any different to the AMC but how are we supposed to know it was there?

[BigEndBob]

I got an e-mail.
First I have had in a long time from the CAA.
Along with all the stuff about scrapping medicals.

[Broadlands]

That one must have slipped by me then.

[BigEndBob]

General Aviation | Types of Operation | Operations and Safety (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=224)

[Broadlands]

Yep, it did. I have saved the link now

[Whopity]

Yet another low quality document from the CAA. It is not their job to produce a syllabus and quite clearly they have no ability to do so. They could of course adopt an alternative Industry syllabus which is what I though this was all about.

[Pull what]

Yes, another low quality doc from CAA whom seem to be in meltdown.

No mention of climbing at best rate of climb in climbing section

Its actually a poor version of standards document 10 and supposedly produced by a new GA committee!(who do not respond to emails).

When are safety sense leaflets and VFR Guide going to be updated(last amendment date 2010)

It took months to make few amendments to CAP 413 which is now back to the unmanageable one volume.

The website is a disgrace with out of date publications and masses of forms that few can understand

CAA constantly talk about raising standards but when are they going to raise their own. And its still cheaper to get both a passport and a driving license than it is to get a night rating added to a PPL?

[Whopity]

Industry has to accept that the CAA is now just a Regulator and no longer a source of technical expertise. In the past, the CAA has endeavoured to assist industry by providing documents and advice that help ensure coherence in aviation training. It is now down to the Industry to comply with the micro-managed and often abiguous regulation, and then self monitor. The Authority is simply required to monitor this process meanwhile, the Chief Executive, who has no background in aviation, has the task of reducing expenditure, a process that appears to have allienated all of the technical staff and reduced morale to zero.

[timprice]

no longer a source of technical expertise! your right there Whopity:ok:

[Broadlands]

I'm a bit lost on the purpose of these documents having looked through them. They don't seem to clarify anything so what was the point?

[Ex Oggie]

I'm a bit lost on the purpose of these documents having looked through them. They don't seem to clarify anything so what was the point?

You are absolutely correct, and that is the issue most instructors/examiners have with these 'new' publications.

A waste of time, resources and a missed opportunity to do something useful IMHO.

I was very disappointed at the end result, especially knowing where and who some of the information gathering came from.

XO

[Mike.Park]

Jeremy Pratt of AFE was involved in formulating the new PPL syllabus.

Link below was posted last week and shows him being interviewed about this very subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1azzqP5Q-Vc

[BigEndBob]

So does that mean the exam papers are going to be reissued again to take into account this 'simplified' syllabus?
They talk about updating a old syllabus, but what's actually changed in 40 years? Other than including radio aids and gps.
And the CAA had to go to a book publisher to come up with this!
(OK he's an instructor, I suppose at least that's step in the right direction).
UK aviation was just about right 15 years ago with NFT's and GFT's.
All that was need was the 5 hours in 13 months rule to stay current needed changing slightly to say a flight every 60 days to stay current on a life time licence.
I wouldn't even have minded paying an annual sub to CAA, say £20, to look after GA.

[Whopity]

but what's actually changed in 40 years?We have regressed!
I was in Training Command in the mid 70s when the RAF deceided it could produce better and more cost effective training my reviewing all of its various syllabi. I recall attending the Management of Training (Ground) MOT(G) course at Newton where the Educators were driving this new initiative. Aims and Objectives were introduced, together with training that could be measured and results assessed.

40 years later we have reverted back to the garbage that was thrown in the bin! So we have learned NOTHING!

[BillieBob]

Aaaah - SAFT!

[BEagle]

A lot of nonsense has been written on this thread about CAP 1298 & 1299.

The syllabus revision was a CAA initiative, but with full industry involvement. Over time, many of the industry groups simply didn't bother turning up at the PPL/WG meetings, leaving a small core of people working under a new CAA lead. The syllabus itself didn't need a huge amount of change, just being brought up to date. EASA are entirely happy with it; I recently attended an EASA meeting at which that was confirmed.

Where you will see considerable improvement is with the exams. Proper allocation of level of knowledge indicators to subject topics has been agreed; the IT requirements are being assessed but we are adamant that it will still be possible to take the 9-section exam at an RF - provided that the RF has a suitable Internet system and meets the security of access requirements being developed. It is expected that an Invitation To Tender will be released shortly, so that question authors (all 'industry', not the mythical 'ex-RAF navigators' some ignorant folk seem to think still populate the Belgrano!) can begin work....

And Whopity, when the ITT appears, I'm sure that your kind words about your erstwhile employer in this thread will of course be of no consequence......:hmm:

[Pull what]

EASA are entirely happy with it;

Whats that got to do with it, its UK flying instructors and schools that have to train PPL's not EASA. However as JP says you dont have to follow it, so you can teach climbing at best ROC speed!

[BEagle]

If EASA had objected to the AltMoC, it would not have been possible for the CAA to release the CAP. Which Flight Instructors at UK RFs or ATOs may feel free to adopt.

Exercise 7 starts with the 'normal' climb. Unless people have some obscure reason for not doing so, this is at the best rate. Later parts of the exercise introduce cruise climbing and best angle of climb as being climbs with different IAS and the reasons for them.

I'm sure if you dig hard enough, you'll find some other obscure reason to claim that something else hasn't been spelled out in words of half a syllable for you....:rolleyes:

[keith williams]

Good to see that you are not adopting a dismissive attitude towards the customers Beags. Antagonising the istructors is hardly the best way to make progress.

[Broadlands]

Theoretical Knowledge excluded, when I checked our approved course documents, the syllabus items are what we teach anyway in the same order so for us it is carry on as before.

[Whopity]

Over the years there have been many syllabi; Longmans; Pitmans; AOPA; Cessna etc but at the end of the day most FIs teach as they were taught on their FI Course, irrespective of what named syllabus a school might claim to use. I recall one large commercial school that up to a year before it closed down did not have a course syllabus, it just taught the exercises in CAP528 The Commercial Flight Instructor's Guide.

A change to the exams is most welcome and the chance of having relevant questions at last is long overdue sadly, the powers that be could not be convinced to simplify things by producing 2 or 3 composite papers.

[BEagle]

We tried to reduce the exams to 3 'double' and 3 'single' subject exams, which would also fit in with the 6 'sittings' (which we're trying to have removed from the regulations at PPL level) - the way it used to be, before 'headshrinker horse$hit' HP&L was introduced, if you include the RT theory exam. However, the CAA looked at this and advised us that the costs associated with such a change would be significant for the short time before e-exams are available - so the present 120 questions remain, although the real rubbish has been binned.

The next iteration will probably be the PPL/LAPL 'e-exam' - 9 subject groups but we expect the system to allow an applicant to attempt as many sections at any one time as he/she wishes. All of which will be debriefed by the examiner - a fail will be given general guidance and a pass with less than 100% will receive a detailed debrief.

[Pull what]

No need to dig Bungle-its all here in Standard Docs 10

7 CLIMBING
7.1 BASIC CONTROL TECHNIQUE
7.1.1 Climbing at recommended power and IAS
7.1.2 Climbing with flaps down
7.2 PERFORMANCE APPLICATIONS
7.2.1 Prolonged climb
7.2.2 Climbing at maximum rate
7.2.3 Climbing maximum angle
7.2.4 Cruise climb

'headshrinker horse$hit' HP&L

This is the biggest problem with GA instruction and why it never moves forward, too many retired time expired out of date folklore authors who still have one foot in their mouths and the other in a Tiger Moth.

[Mickey Kaye]

Can't we just have one exam covering all 9 subjects of 120 questions then the 6 sitting crap will go away.

[Pull what]

Most students struggle studying for one exam so doing all 9 in one exam would be a difficulty that is not needed. You have to remember this is an amateur leisure qualification and most students are trying to fit studying for the exams around work, family and flying.

[Mickey Kaye]

Don't ever recall it being a problem in the states.

Who without doubt have more people gaining a PPL than the UK.

[Pull what]

Well Mickey Ive been teaching ground school since you were in short pants and I can assure you it's a problem here where people dont have a book to look the answers up in beforehand

[B61]

Is it going to be this autumn ? How long is the "short time" before e-exams become available ?

Beagle is suggesting, if I read it right, that there will be just one large exam in 9 sections ?

What will be the role of those with a Ground Examiner rating ? I assume to logon to a website ?

[BEagle]

The latest estimate I've heard for the LAPL/PPL e-exam is 2016.

IT requirements, examination area, invigilation and data security requirements are currently being formulated.

[B61]

Sounds like it is very early days. 2016 is a bit vague - early, mid, late ?

Is AOPA going to be write the question bank, or wil is be Messrs Pratt, etc ?

[Pull what]

I hope they have a rethink on the current nav paper as some of the questions are so far removed from PPL knowledge they are just ridiculous and I cant even find ATPL holders who can answer some of them.

One of the answers could only be referenced in the Pooleys APM PPL textbook, not much help to someone who just purchased a set of AFE books!

What is needed are some questions that will encourage pilots to stop penetrating controlled airspace not understand the mechanics of the tilt axis of the earth and the upper limb of the sun. I think we can safely assume that most PPLs know when its getting dark and light!

[Mike.Park]

IT requirements, examination area, invigilation and data security requirements are currently being formulated.

Is there a pressing need for e-exams to be taken in-house at an ATO?

Learner drivers, accountants, and people in IT world do their theory exams at a certain commercial testing centre that has numerous exam venues up & down the country.

Wouldn't that be a more cost effective option for the delivery of PPL e-exams?

[BigEndBob]

Learner drivers..what 50,000 a year, pilots 1000?
Never going to happen.
The paper system is ok IF the peps writing and proof reading get their act sorted!
The old papers we had for years with glaring mistakes never corrected.

What will happen is they will nick questions from the commercial they think ppl's can answer and bung them in a e-exam.
When I spoke to JP about the latest exams, he told me the exams were done in a bit of a rush when I pointed out the errors.
..a RUSH!