MATZ Penetration

[Currymonster]

Does anyone have much experience with the above. I am a relatively new PPL and wondered whether one would be a nuisance to a LARS if you requested matz penetration which as a result of the desired track took you directly over the military airfield served...

[The Ugly Fend Off]

Most MATZ are not controlled airspace so in theory you could just rock on through. The safest bet would be to give a call to the zone controller on the VHF frequency for the MATZ. Probably not the best idea to go straight through the overhead but if you really want to keep in mind that most military ccts will be at 1000'. Any particular MATZ in mind?

[Currymonster]

Warton.. Am flying in this area later this week

[Send Clowns]

Often they prefer you to transit their overhead, and I have been asked to do so (irritating on my CPL skills test!). They are usually very helpful, remember military controllers don't have anyone concerned about how much the service costs! They are also grateful for your call, which is not mandatory (though I would strongly advise it!) and helps them plan their own traffic for greater safety.

If they ask you to do something you are not happy with, make another request of them. They may be able to be more acomodating or to give you help - for example if they ask you to change route they may be able to tell you where you are when you leave their zone.

[Send Clowns]

Ah, have flown over Warton myself (at 200' in a helicopter :D ). They were helpful as anyone, and did want us to route directly through the overhead.

Enjoy!

[andrewc]

My record when learning was 5 MATZ penetrations on
a relatively short (but deviously planned by my instructor)
cross-country...

If you ask nicely sometimes they can hand you on from
one area to the next.

They are keen that once you tell them your direction and
height in the MATZ that you stick to it...but you were going
to do that anyway weren't you :)

If it's your unlucky day they will randomly vector you around
the sky for a while and then once they've got you lost /
confused / well off track, tell you to resume own navigation.

-- Andrew

[Keef]

Never had a mil controller vector me around without telling me where I am when he hands me off. Mind you, I hadn't always heard of the place...

[QNH 1013]

Remember, controllers (both civil and military) are there to help us. If they say resume own navigation to XXXXX you are perfectly entitled to "request track to XXXXX from present position". This tip was given to me by an airbus captain. "It gets us onto our new heading immediately while we locate and enter the new waypoint".

[FlyingForFun]

Send Clowns said "Often they prefer you to transit their overhead." Not true in my experience, which is mainly (but not exclusively) limited to Farnborough. In fact, Farnborough usually give you a MATZ penetration clearance which specifically includes keeping clear of the Odiham ATZ.

Having said that, I've never asked for an overhead transit - and the MATZ extends 1000' above the ATZ so I'd imagine they'd at least clear you to overfly at 2500' aal.

I suspect that each MATZ has it's own way of doing things, depending on the type of traffic at the airfield concerned. Probably the best thing to do if you've got any concerns is to call the airfield before you leave, tell them what you want to ask for and ask them what kind of clearance you can expect from them.

Certainly nothing to worry about though. Have a good flight!

FFF
---------------

[khorne]

I agree with a previous poster that they will generally prefer it if you route via their overhead at virtually all MATZ that I have been to. IN areas such as the Vale of York or through Lincolnshire they will certainly pass you over from one to the next as a matter of course. However, what they are really doing is making sure you are on some obvious routing that they understand and also keeping you clear of landing and departing aircraft.

Here is some advice for the original poster who is new to the MATZ. Firstly don't forget they will give you a QFE and you will fly that height. Secondly listen to the tone of the response and be prepared no to fly through the MATZ if they tell you they are "hot" or otherwise sound as if it is a bad idea.

Here's a really controversial remark for light aircraft. Try flying above the MATZ! It's amazing how many prople fly around at 2-3000 ft even on lovely days. As long as you stay out of the airways go as high as you can.

[poetpilot]

It's always useful & productive to call Warton when even near their area.

Very helpful & generally friendly to GA traffic, well-used to training flights and inexperienced people, & they've often helped people I've known who have been in trouble.

Plus the test flying & just every other flying (Blackpool inbound & outbound, Woodvale, Barton) around the Warton area means its nice to know someone has you on radar.

Give 'em a call. Once you've overcome initial nervousness it'll become second nature.:)

[eyeinthesky]

Something which has been hinted at but not spelt out is the following:

If you elect to exercise your right to transit a MATZ without talking to the controlling unit you MUST remain clear of any associated ATZ. These you may NOT enter without permission (ANO refers).

On a more positive note, don't be afraid of transiting MATZ. They are relatively simple and, as has been highlighted, if the clearance you are given doesn't suit you you can always ask for one that does. You wil usually get it unless they have conflicting traffic. Better than that, pre-empt it by requesting what you want at the outset.

As has been said already, most MATZ work on the relevant aerodrome QFE, so you can expect to be given a QFE and a height to fly. Some units, such as Benson, will be helpful and work out the difference between altitude and height and give you a height to fly which corresponds roughly to your stated altitude. Be aware also that if you are VFR and are unable to maintain VMC at the cleared height then it is perfectly OK to request a different one.

[Whirlybird]

It is not obligatory to ask before entering a MATZ, but it's definitely a good idea. However, every MATZ also has an ATZ, and you do have to ask for permission before entering that. Of course, you can also fly above the whole thing, as another poster noted.

I learned to fly at Welshpool, fairly close to Shawbury MATZ, then moved to Sleap which is right inside it. Calling a MATZ is no big deal; they will usually give you their QFE, sometimes a squawk, and sometimes ask you to keep to a certain altitude or specific route. Occasionally they won't allow you in at all - only happened to me soon after Sept 11th, when I think Brize must have been preparing for World War 3. :eek: Some want you to transit the overhead, some want you to keep outside the ATZ; the details vary. Most controllers are fine; some like military precision: " Stay on frequency till told to change", I was once told when requesting a frequency change. But really, it's not difficult.

[Circuit Basher]

Just one little point, CurryMonster - I've not flown around there recently (but used to work at Warton and fly out of Blackpool as a stude PPL), but there have been many reports in GASIL and the Occurrences Leaflet about PPL type people who become 'temporarily uncertain of their position' get Blackpool and Warton confused. Blackpool is the one nearest the tower and not the one in the Ribble estuary!!

The main instrumented runway at Warton is 08 / 26 2341m TORA from the 26 end, compared to Blackpool with 10 / 28, 1869m runway length (couldn't find TORA on the AIP aerodrome chart).

HTH - as the others said, the MATZ controllers are *usually* nice as pie to talk to and are very nice chappies (not that I wear a light blue suit in my spare time!!! ;-)) ).

[Chilli Monster]

Circuit Basher

You might wear a light blue suit, but Warton's ATCO's don't - they're all civil and employed by BAE systems.

Whirly

Brize not letting you in is a different matter from a MATZ crossing, as they (like Lyneham) do not have a MATZ. They are both Controlled Airspace, Class 'D' (And yes - I've heard both being asked when flying in the area for 'MATZ penetration' - though the 1:500000 southern chart is perfectly clear ;))

CM

[Whirlybird]

Chilli Monster,

You're absolutely right. Well, you learn something every day. Now why have I always thought they were both MATZes? :confused:

[Viggen]

Currymonster - don't fret about calling Warton. They are (without exception, in my experience) friendly and helpful. Just ask for FIS and MATZ penetration, they'll give you a sqawk, and after that they'll only contact you if there is traffic you may want to know about. On my first solo nav I was unsure of position (oh alright, a bit lost) and they went out of their way to get me to a position where I was happy to get home from.

[Viggen]

Currymonster - don't fret about calling Warton. They are (without exception, in my experience) friendly and helpful. Just ask for FIS and MATZ penetration, they'll give you a sqawk, and after that they'll only contact you if there is traffic you may want to know about. On my first solo nav I was unsure of position (oh alright, a bit lost) and they went out of their way to get me to a position where I was happy to get home from.

[Currymonster]

Thanks for the replies people..
very helpful