Avionics engineers seem rarer than plumbers...

[Simon T]

I am looking to get some work done on the avionics in my PA28. I have been speaking to two different companies and am struggling to get responses or commitment to dates. One company I have been talking to since Feb! Is this a common theme?

Any one know of someone who is reliable in south UK?

Simon

[BEagle]

Have you tried RGV Aviation at Staverton?

Avionics | RGV Aviation | Taking the Hassle Out of Ownership (http://www.rgv.co.uk/avionics/)

[pulse1]

I have no personal experience with them but these seem to do a lot of work locally:

Bournemouth Avionics Limited, based at Lee On Solent (EGHF) (http://www.bournemouth-avionics.co.uk/)

[A and C]

There is a vast under supply in the market.......
Good luck !

[Echo Romeo]

I can pm you Radio Jim's tel no, if its any use. Think he's operates from Sywell, though.

[piperboy84]

have a crack at it yourself, it ain't rocket science

[Simon T]

have a crack at it yourself, it ain't rocket science

Love to but according to the CAA I am not able to, despite being an electronics engineer by trade

[TheOddOne]

Second that about Bournemouth Avionics. Not far from Andover.

TOO

[Johnm]

Alec Vincent at RGV is obliging and efficient in my experience. However if you are an electronics engineers and not replacing equipment I'd just get on an do it!

[Jan Olieslagers]

And what would it cost, in time and in money and in effort, to get certified as an avionics workshop, even if you were to have only one customer?

[Mickey Kaye]

Which is the bit I can never understand and I sure is a big factor in holding the industry back.

A qualified engineer should be able to work on the aircraft. We should approve the individual not the organisation

[Rod1]

"A qualified engineer should be able to work on the aircraft. We should approve the individual not the organisation "

Like the LAA?

Rod1

[Rod1]

I did not think that the crash had anything to do with the LAA.

Back to the avionic question - I have had little problem doing all the wiring on my own aircraft and installing several EFIS systems, Transponders etc on a number of others. Perhaps the Avionic side could be deregulated as far as the work is concerned and get an LAA inspector in to look it over on CofA aircraft? This would save the industry a lot of cash.

Rod1

[tecman]

I'm in a similar position to the OP, albeit in a different part of the world. There is right on both sides of the argument: specialized knowledge and equipment is required to safely maintain a certified GA aircraft, especially one in IFR category. (And the kit required for some of the maintenance and certification on the more advanced systems is likely beyond the means of an individual aircraft owner). By the same token, I've seen (and solved) some pretty bad engineering issues by avionics shops.

An approach which worked for me was to get know the techs at one of the better companies, then work with them in diagnostics, installations etc. In Australia at least it will ultimately have to be the licenced tech that signs off new installs, instrument and transponder checks, etc. Fortunately, a lot of expensive tech time still goes into hunting basic issues and with your own comms knowlege and basic equipment, you can make a big difference to the bottom line.

[Simon T]

I want to give someone money, and get it done in the next 4 weeks,seems crazy that there is such a gap in the market. Could this be another gap for the Polish guys to exploit? With 8.33 due in less than 3 years there will be a lot more work coming...

Simon

[ChickenHouse]

GA is a shrinking market in "certified-land" and with the latest changes in regulations, ADS-B/Mode-S/833/ELT/etc, the authorities generated an artificial peak in demand. No merchantman would ever hire people based on that peak, because in 2020 nobody will have a need for them. In economics the market would normally react in a raise of prices to compensate, but buyers do have an alternate in europe - stop flying, as most of the volume in europe GA is from pleasure flying. If I look around here and see what officially certified mechanics have to do, how they do and what they do, I do not see the real thing in certification. But, here the small aircrafts are a vital transport mechanism and many parts won't be accessible at all without GA. Guys, get used to the situation over there, it won't change.

[Bob Upanddown]

It ain’t rocket science but it ain’t avionics now either.

The avionics engineer used to be someone who could repair anything radio. Now, if your GTN750 packs up, send it back to Garmin is the only option.

When you look at the installation of these new avionics, it is all computer network cables. Half the time spent on installing new avionic suites is down to making all the bits speak to each other, set-up pages, etc.
Now, far be it for me to say but the licensing system for avionic engineers is so far behind the CAA / EASA should throw it all away.
What does it need to install 8.33 kit?? Bugger all really.

[flyems]

You'd do well contacting Brian from Bournemouth Avionics at Lee on Solent...

[ChickenHouse]

What does it need to install 8.33 kit?
After I saw a bill with an item "installation of 833 kit Garmin GNS430" charged for 200 USD plus VAT ...

[stevelup]

Back to the original question. You don't say how complex the work is? Is it a bit of fettling, or ripping the whole panel out and fitting a pair of GTNs and and Aspen?

I needed a quote for removing an inop ADF receiver, and swapping out an old mechanical King nav/com for a Garmin 430.

I contacted four avionics companies in the UK, and one in the Netherlands who was recommended to me.

UK1) Still hasn't replied to my original enquiry
UK2) Replied after two weeks and said the work would cost more than the airframe was worth and came up with about ten barriers against continuing
UK3) Replied after three weeks saying they would pass my query on to someone else. That someone else contacted me and asked for more information, and it's now been 15 days without contact
UK4) Replied immediately - same day in fact. Apologised that he was away for a couple of days but would have a quote by the end of the week. Got quote two days later. Instant replies to all e-mails, and a very helpful dialogue. Competitive pricing.

NL) From initial e-mail to getting a quote was four working days. Again, very helpful discussion. Reasonable quote, but obviously there are additional costs involved with this option (ferrying the aircraft back and forth from Holland) - that said, it's the sort of flight I'd do for fun anyway, so really all we're talking about is a couple of lo-co airline tickets on top.

No point in naming/shaming UK1-3, but UK4 was Bournemouth Avionics at Lee-on-Solent, and NL was JP Avionics at EHMZ (Zeeland).

[Rod1]

airpolice, no system is perfect. The CAA approved a report which lead to the removal of overflight restrictions for permit aircraft. The report covered 20 years of accidents and showed that LAA permit machines were marginally better than CofA.

I am currently working on a permit 4 seater which only recently transferred from cofa to permit. Some of the systems have not bean looked at for 10 years plus. I guess the man in a rush was under too much commercial pressure to do a full job. It took us 4.5 man days to sort the port brake out:sad:. We have now installed mode s, 8.33, an EFIS, upgraded the dynamo to an alternator, sorted out a lot of bad wiaring. Still have to put in a USB charging port and an engine monitor but that can be done when the weather is bad. The spats are currently in my workshop. The previous "engineer" had used self tapers :ugh: - will take several days to sort them out to a good standard. None of this work would have been economic under certified rules. The type (DR1050) is currently being tested for its suitability for IFR. I plan to fly her round Europe next year.

Rod1

[Bob Upanddown]

Stevlup

I think that’s a bit harsh on the first 3 UK companies.

What you have to remember is that this is a 2-way arrangement. From your POV, you want the work carried out. From the avionic company’s POV, they have to be willing to carry out the work for you as they want to make a profit and are probably concentrating on fitting up to date avionics into modern aircraft. They make money on supplying new equipment as well as installing it. You might ask someone to quote, they might not wish to quote as they know they won’t get the business

I can see immediately that you are looking for a cheap fit. I don’t know what you fly but you are asking someone to swap out an old redundant nav/com for a not so old superseded GPS/nav/com (which, at a guess, you will supply yourself?). For some companies, they know, without asking you for more info, that there won’t be any profit in doing that so why waste the money replying? OK, not replying is bad customer relations but maybe they really don’t care what people with small cheap aircraft think about their company. Maybe if you had a King Air it would be a different story but if you had a King Air, you would probably be installing a Garmin 1000 system.

That said, I hear good things about both the companies you have named.

[wsmempson]

I used (and liked) Avionicare in Southend; their work came in on time, on budget and worked straight out of the box.

[GBEBZ]

Having spent over £22k with Brian at Bournemouth Avionics - I would be most happy to recommend him. And as you found out - he replies to emails outside of business hours and almost right away.

[piperboy84]

No point in naming/shaming UK1-3, but UK4 was Bournemouth Avionics at Lee-on-Solent, and NL was JP Avionics at EHMZ (Zeeland).

I knew before I got to the bit above it was going to be Bournemouth Av, I contacted them a while back about and upgrade and the guy got right back with quotes and advice on a better and cheaper config, he knew his stuff. Ultimately I decided to delay the upgrade but when I do eventually move forward it will be with those guys.