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deanm
23rd May 2015, 00:31
Surely they can see that this idea will only drive pilots to stop taking needed medications?!

"A Lufthansa spokesman told dpa that the airline would only introduce the new measure in coordination with Germany's task force for aviation safety, adding that the tests could help detect medication that pilots may be hiding from their employer."

Lufthansa considers random pilot checks (http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/lufthansa-considers-random-pilot-checks/story-e6frfkui-1227366056509)

Germanwings: Lufthansa pilots may get spot health checks - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32842265)

Madness, indeed!

Metro man
23rd May 2015, 00:56
Some countries such as Australia have drug testing in place already for illegal drugs such as cannibas and LSD. This could be expanded to included prescription drugs with or without the pilots knowledge.

Legal, opiate based drugs can lead to a positive test result and licence suspension whilst the matter is sorted out.

Athletes have a long list of forbidden medications due to stringent drug testing during events, but these are more biased towards performance enhancing drugs.

Perhaps we'll end up with a similar list.

aterpster
23rd May 2015, 00:56
deanm:

Surely they can see that this idea will only drive pilots to stop taking needed medications?!

What needed medications should pilots be taking that such a program will drive them from stopping?

deanm
23rd May 2015, 01:09
Mild or temporary anxiety, depression etc. can be readily and stably treated under medical supervision.

Do you want such folk to stop therapy?

Burpbot
23rd May 2015, 01:15
What other industry can invade your humanity/private life to such a level?

Whilst forcing you to work 7 day weeks on earlies at minimum rest, at ever decreasing terms and conditions???

I think I am getting close to hanging up my wings!!!

BlankBox
23rd May 2015, 02:41
False Positives on Drug Tests (http://www.askdocweb.com/falsepositives.html) :p

...having a beer the night before is the least of your worries...glad I'm loonngg gone....:(

rottenray
23rd May 2015, 03:43
False Positives on Drug Tests (http://www.askdocweb.com/falsepositives.html) :p

...having a beer the night before is the least of your worries...glad I'm loonngg gone....:(

askdocweb. com is not considered a serious source, having read the article linked I find it to be yet another of many overstating true errors and perceived "sloppiness" in drug testing procedures.

As far as you being happy about being long gone, well, I'm happy that you're happy.

A lot of us miss you early-generation pilots.

I'm 55 years old, and my memories of flying as a kid are very pilot-centric.

You guys worked your asses off keeping us safe and giving us pleasant flights - your efforts were obvious and very much appreciated.

Some of the folks in the front office now clearly have no business being there. If you took them back in time to fly 1st and 2nd generation jets, it would result in a massacre.

After writing this and reading it, maybe I am happy for you after all. You're a class of pilot that didn't need the "extra help" of random drug tests, and I can understand why you feel it is an insult.

Be safe and happy, and thanks for what you did.

Cheers!

ETOPS
23rd May 2015, 07:39
So a Lufthansa pilot seeking medical advice from his Doctor, for stress or anxiety, has the added worry that telling his employer could lead to suspension and possible loss of employment. Not telling could lead to exactly the same thing......

How does this help move safety forward?

dusk2dawn
23rd May 2015, 07:48
Lawyers will love this one :rolleyes:

deanm
23rd May 2015, 08:05
"Not telling" = Lubitz (and we all know how that ended).

John Farley
23rd May 2015, 09:34
deanmSurely they can see that this idea will only drive pilots to stop taking needed medications?!


Why not tell your employer what you are on? End of problem.

deanm
23rd May 2015, 09:46
End of problem?!

It would be - for the employer.

For the employee?

End of job!

Basil
23rd May 2015, 09:50
If you are on medication your AME can decide whether you should be flying or not.

gcal
23rd May 2015, 10:49
@Metro man
It depends on the country but in many you would not be allowed to test without first telling the patient what you are testing for, and or, gaining their permission; covert testing would not be allowed.

hunterboy
23rd May 2015, 10:53
I guess part of the problem is telling certain airlines that you are taking medication for depression, etc would be akin to telling them you snort crack cocaine.
I would hazard a guess that there is very little trust between most airline management and their employees.

stilton
23rd May 2015, 10:57
LH seems to be having a nervous breakdown of their own



Maybe they should have a doctor, psychologist and perhaps an attorney ride in each cockpit to constantly monitor each crew member.


It would be even safer to leave passengers on the ground.



Time to calm down and take a more measured approach.

gcal
23rd May 2015, 10:58
@hunterboy

You say 'most' but are you sure about that?
In my experience and shared experiences of others some companies are as sympathetic and as supporting as possible.
There may be a legal procedure they have to follow (sickness policy in the UK is a good example of that) but there is no bad intent.

hunterboy
23rd May 2015, 11:05
Nope, not certain, hence I "guessed". I was trying to stimulate debate as to why certain staff such as pilots wouldn't go to their airline mgmt with certain personal or medical problems.
I do strongly suspect though, that if a UK based company could fire an expensive employee without it costing them and employ a new,cheaper employee then they wouldn't think twice.

gcal
23rd May 2015, 11:19
There is a whole raft of legally binding procedure that any company has to comply with in matters of performance and discipline.
The company also has a legal obligation of due care in any of its' dealing with people it employs.
These same duties may not diminish even when dealing with people sub contracted eg; those not actually working for the company but which the public may perceive as doing so.

skyhighfallguy
23rd May 2015, 13:58
I read early papers on what might be expected of pilots at the dawn of the jet age. There was great concern that the human mind might not be able to handle the speed. This was a genuine concern.

There are terrible side effects to modern airline flying for the pilots. Even 25 years ago the side effects were taken care of by less flying, better hotels, more pay, more days off. More pay allowed for more recreation time on days off .


I am in favor of such drug testing as long as:

1. Samples are split, different labs doing the work (absolute truth in testing)

2. That pilots who for some reason are taking or consider taking these drugs be allowed ALL THE SICK TIME they need to get over the problem so they don't have to take the drug. THIS MEANS that you pay the pilot full pay if he isn't well and you do it for the duration of the illness all the way to an honorable retirement.

I remember the days when all you had to do was call the chief pilot and say: I need time off to deal with my wife's problem . Chief pilot would say: FINE, call me when you are ready to fly again, we will keep sending you your pay, we want you to be well.


THIS IS SIMPLY NOT THE CASE anymore.

THE PUREST TEST FOR A PILOT IS THIS, more than a drug test, more than a psych exam: IF THE PILOT IS HAPPY TO GO FLYING, he is well. IF HE DREADS going flying, something is wrong.


The career was great and most of the time I look forward to flying. But things have changed, are changing and NOT for the better.

gcal
23rd May 2015, 14:08
I've not seen a situation yet, a recent situation, in which the company I know best did not do what it could to help; under the rules and regs in the UK.
It may have been constrained by the rules and regs and some of the wording of these can frighten an employee I grant that.
Teamwork is needed by the company and the employee.
A company cannot be deliberately dishonest and neither should the employee.

Herod
23rd May 2015, 15:04
I believe that in some countries certain medications (e.g. antidepressants) are considered on a case-by-case basis. The rationale is that it's better to have the pilot on meds that keep him performing satisfactorily, rather than either taking the meds surreptitiously or having a breakdown. I've had the breakdown and, last time I checked, the meds which keep me happy and functioning prohibit even holding a PPL (although I can hold an NPPL; go figure)

Airbubba
23rd May 2015, 15:31
I remember the days when all you had to do was call the chief pilot and say: I need time off to deal with my wife's problem . Chief pilot would say: FINE, call me when you are ready to fly again, we will keep sending you your pay, we want you to be well.

Those days are long gone at many carriers I'm afraid. And, I would say that some of the deterioration in benefits is due to colleagues who have faked illnesses and milked the system at the expense of those of us who choose to be honest.

Who can blame the company for checking up on you after some clown brags on the union forum about calling in sick for a trip he doesn't like and quips that 'you're one phone call away from a perfect line!' :ugh:

bellaolive912
23rd May 2015, 15:54
I am a UK ATPL who currently takes daily SSRI Medication; I fly for a small/medium sized UK based operator with the full knowledge of my Flt.Ops/HR Dept, local AME and CAA AeMC at LGW. I attend a relaxed, informal consultation at LGW every 6 months to update my condition. My only restriction is an OML, Multi-Crew Operations only.

My Employer, once I informed them of the issue, allowed me several months to recover and I cannot speak highly enough of positive effects of anti-depressant medication in my particular case. Yes, there were some sticky moments during my time off - I cannot deny.

HONESTY is the best policy for all concerned - to talk of being fired on the spot by HR is simply unfounded, scare-mongering and at best encouraging people to hide their issues even more

gcal
23rd May 2015, 16:22
Which is exactly what I was saying.
You were treated as you should have been and scaremongering and 'stirring it up' are not warranted.
Good luck to you.

Herod
23rd May 2015, 16:26
bellaolive912. Glad to hear it. Things have obviously moved on since my problem ten years ago. I might even try for the PPL again.

bellaolive912
23rd May 2015, 17:22
Herod - wef 1st September 2012, UK CAA began to accept SSRIs as an acceptable medication under EASA regulations.

There is a Depression flowchart to follow on CAA website which offers full guidance.

It is worth noting that an employee can be dismissed on ill-health grounds, even if they hold a valid sickness certificate from a Doctor. This would be done on Capability grounds at a formal meeting with HR, Union Rep. etc.

Unlikely to be mentioned whilst employee was still receiving Company Sickness Benefit, unless they had specifically requested a severance package on grounds of ill-health.

ATC Watcher
24th May 2015, 06:05
Some facts : Lufhansa medical centre is one of the best in Germany.
They did not see that one coming, or if they did , someone or current rules make them keep quiet.
Lufthansa management decided that it has to be showing the public they are doing something .
Unfortunately they choose the wrong approach, as this could/will prevent people from going to see a doctor or taking medication when in need..

This was discussed in MAD during the last IFALPA Conference , and a solution proposed was a combination of the Peer system (PIP ) and of a proper loss of licence insurance , also covering mental illnesses. ( most don't).

I will argue that this does not only concerns pilots but anyone with that level of responsibility

Jwscud
24th May 2015, 08:52
I am actually constantly surprised that there is no mandatory random testing. Both the military and the oil industry do random drug and alcohol testing. They also test for drugs that are legal on prescription but can be misused (steroids &c.) If you declare drugs you are taking and they come up in your sample, there is no comeback whatsoever,a nod unless you fail, your employer gets no information whatsoever, including what you declare on the test form.

Capt Pit Bull
24th May 2015, 08:59
And let's have the same for our politicians and judiciary.

ETOPS
24th May 2015, 09:12
I think what's being missed here is the change of "mood" by airlines faced with scrutiny of the sort Lufthansa are currently under.

There will be a focus on how flight crew are handled - especially those being treated for stress/depression - and the new approach won't be as helpful as previously.

pax britanica
24th May 2015, 10:12
Ok so test the flight deck, but then you have to test line maintenance who can do every bit as much damage if they want, ofh and while we are about it test the heavy maintenance guys too, err and all the inspections people, and, well the trolley dolls might be tempted to put sleeping pills in the flight deck coffee so better test them too , oh and the Board might overlook testing for a vital area of safety so lets test them too.

If you introduce something like this in accompany every one has to face same issues from the Chairman to the guy on the front gate and of course its an excellent opportunity for the 'leadership team' to actually show some leadership by example rather than pay packet, so how can anyone be against it .

cavok_flyer
24th May 2015, 15:43
@ pax britanica . Thanks, I was just about to write the same. Same rules for all. Excuse me while I dream on... :ugh: . And let's put the controllers in there as well.

Airbubba
24th May 2015, 18:48
I am actually constantly surprised that there is no mandatory random testing. Both the military and the oil industry do random drug and alcohol testing.

Ok so test the flight deck, but then you have to test line maintenance who can do every bit as much damage if they want, ofh and while we are about it test the heavy maintenance guys too, err and all the inspections people, and, well the trolley dolls might be tempted to put sleeping pills in the flight deck coffee so better test them too , oh and the Board might overlook testing for a vital area of safety so lets test them too.


We've had random drug and alcohol testing for pilots in the U.S. for a couple of decades now. And, maintenance workers and flight attendants are randomly tested as well. But not management... :=

Sadly, or fortunately (I can understand both viewpoints) someone seems to test positive a couple of times a year where I work. Many of these cases are handled quietly, often with a forced resignation or early retirement. These few random testing cases are in addition to the episodes where people are tested for cause or suspicion after, for example, security notices ETOH on their breath.

Here's some information from the Department of Transportation which oversees the FAA's testing program:

Office of Drug & Alcohol Policy & Compliance | Department of Transportation (http://www.dot.gov/odapc)

I am a UK ATPL who currently takes daily SSRI Medication; I fly for a small/medium sized UK based operator with the full knowledge of my Flt.Ops/HR Dept, local AME and CAA AeMC at LGW. I attend a relaxed, informal consultation at LGW every 6 months to update my condition. My only restriction is an OML, Multi-Crew Operations only.

The FAA will now consider a Special Issuance Medical Certificate with the use of four specific SSRI's:

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item47/amd/antidepressants/

Jwscud
24th May 2015, 18:57
pax britanica - that's exactly the way it was. Walk through the gates of a refinery and you are fair game, whether shift manager, secretary or bog cleaner

In this context I would bring it in throughout the airline in the same way - Flight Crew, Cabin Crew, Engineering, Ops - you name it.

DeafOldFart
24th May 2015, 22:43
Some forty years ago, I was employed in an engineering firm making stainless steel components for various high tech applications. The job was exceedingly demanding. I had a minor illness that reduced my stamina, and things got very difficult.
My doctor prescribed me something to ease the pressure.... not realising I flew light aircraft. Seems I was expected to stay at home and relax under the influence of a hypnotic drug.
Going back to work before I was ready resulted in a serious argument with the workshop manager! ,
So, emotional turmoil, leave work to fume somewhere else...
Pity the flying club was at the other end of the runway to the factory, pity someone suggested it was a nice day to fly!
After watching someone else in my skin flying along a road, there followed an interesting time returning to normality.
Make sure your doctor knows you fly... make sure you understand the effects of the medication!
Like going to the pub in the car, hand the keys over before the second drink!
CAA medical branch eventually relented, but there was a 25 year gap in my solo flying....
I imagine that a stressful cockpit environment is bearable when shared, and another person is around to monitor, and be monitored.
Solitude allows the mind to wander into dangerous areas!
If in doubt, stay in bed....

Naali
10th Jun 2015, 20:56
Heard a good rule of thumb years ago. If your condition prevents flying,be sure that the medication doesn,t do the same.

RexBanner
10th Jun 2015, 21:35
Lubitz didn't kill all of those people because he was depressed. He did it because he was a psychopath with a personality disorder.

BEagle
11th Jun 2015, 10:27
Meanwhile the UK CAA is proposing to do away with anything more demanding for UK (non-EASA) PPL and NPPL pilots than being able to hold a driving licence for private cars....

CAP 1284 Question 6:

Do you believe that private pilots who have a history of significant psychiatric condition (i.e. that requires medication) should be assessed by their GP rather than use a self-certification system? Please answer yes or no and provide reasons.

So if the general consensus is 'no' and some 'depressed' person subsequently decides to hire an aeroplane to go and cause mayhem.....:uhoh:

Pace
11th Jun 2015, 11:00
Lubitz didn't kill all of those people because he was depressed. He did it because he was a psychopath with a personality disorder.

Beagle

I agree with this posting above. Until you can identify what Lubitz suffered with and then eliminate those people from the flight deck it all becomes window dressing for public consumption.

Frankly it is an insult to people who suffer with depression to attach that mantle to a mass premeditated murderer.
A huge USA study on mass murderers found that 8 out of 10 showed NO signs of serious mental illness so going on a witch hunt for pilots who have suffered with depression which most probably have at some point in their lives is a scapegoat!

Ok Lufthansa are trying to give a message to the general public to show that they have done something to restore confidence but this move is doing nothing apart from pushing pilots to quango treatments and alternative medicine.

Putting the focus on depression where the majority would never harm a fly is an insult to those people and that condition.
It is no more accurate than saying people with stomach ulcers become mass murderers so anyone with pain like toothache can be a mass murderer.
identify the people with stomach ulcers and that seems to be a failure of the medical world to specify what was wrong with Lubitz and it certainly wasn't depression that caused him to pre meditate and mass murder all those poor people
it was something far more serious.

Until the medical world can identify exactly what condition Lubitz had? Can identify accurate tests to weed out those personalities this is all a scapegoat for public consumption only and an insult to millions of suffering innocent people who would never hurt a fly only themselves. Don't blanket wrap Lubitz who had a serious personality disorder with depression.

I have nothing against random drug tests on pilots that is a separate discussion and probably sensible. In locating a potential mass murderer where 8 out of 10 have no history of serious mental disorder or treatments drug tests would not locate the 8 out of 10

RAT 5
11th Jun 2015, 17:06
Where does it end: why does it start? Because the muppets in charge think they need to be seen to be doing something and exercise their power. Total swinging bulls appendages. It's similar to some airlines; one guy screws up a basic manoeuvre and out comes a whole new SOP profile that prohibits the manoeuvre for those who know how to do it. The multitudes are penalised for the crass stupidity of the few. Why are Chunnel train pax not subjected to the same security as aviation pax? An explosion mid-channel is not a minor affair. Why can 10 guys with 100ml take perhaps dodgy stuff onto an a/c, but 1 guy with 1000ml is a disaster waiting to happen? And don't forget the lady with a 150ml yoghurt, or the guy with a 250ml water bottle 1/4 full or 3/4 empty. Armageddon agents all of them.
So, the medical testing? What about the coach drivers who every day career along mountain sides with paper thin barriers? What about lorry drivers hurtling down shopping streets. The problem is not pilots, it's people. 1 dead, 150 dead, it's all the same, only a different scale. The reaction should not be for publicity because the event was very public. There are thousands of hidden inconspicuous events every year which do not attract such reactions. The world turns and life goes on. Please let's not go down the same road as took us into the tiny plastic bag 100ml limit syndrome. The world is not a better place because of that, and I believe it will not be a better place if all the pilots are tested on a monthly, weekly, daily, per flight basis.

carlrsymington
12th Jun 2015, 02:20
Lubitz didn't kill all of those people because he was depressed. He did it because he was a psychopath with a personality disorder.

100% agree...
I went through a terrible time with stress \ depression \ suicidal thoughts.
Not once did I ever think of harming anyone else. I struggled with (denied)the concept that me committing suicide it would hurt others though.
Came out the other side.
The reaction to this is nuts...
leave it be & let us see if it is a one off

nonsense
12th Jun 2015, 03:07
Lubitz didn't kill all of those people because he was depressed. He did it because he was a psychopath with a personality disorder.

Given how quickly people here pounce on anyone commenting on aviation issues without what they see as adequate qualifications, I find it a bit rich when pilots claim this level of confidence in their own judgement in matters of psychiatry.

westhawk
12th Jun 2015, 05:16
It doesn't seem that the field of psychiatry can find much consensus on matters concerning the prediction of future aberrant behavior. That's why there isn't and probably won't be an accurate psychological screening test for mass killing tendencies in individual persons anytime soon. All they really have is profiles and some presumptions based upon past cases. You don't need any medical "qualifications" to understand that without scientifically proven cause/effect linkage, no screening test will ever be conclusive. Identifying future aberrant behavior in human individuals is nothing more than science fiction and the stuff of Hollywood productions. And a panacea for the ignorant. Right up there with phrenology, astrology and fortune cookies.

Individual judgment falls well short as well. How many times have we heard how friends, neighbors and relatives express their surprise that someone killed themselves or someone else? "He seemed so pleasant", "such a happy person", "I never would have believed it possible they could do such a thing", etc...

I get the feeling that the potential for this type of behavior will always exist among a few individuals in society no matter what actions are taken. And accurately identifying these individuals before they form intent or actually put their destructive plan into action will always be a very low percentage proposition. It could just be that not all problems are 100% solvable by regulation and policy. Maybe not all in some instances. And very likely not with the blunt tool that psych screening is at present.

Besides, we appear to be headed more in the direction of requiring all citizens to consume some dystopian science fiction novel drug every day to ensure happiness and compliance anyway. ;) Oh, wait a minute! :confused:

I'd say the best we'll be able to do anytime soon is to try and recognize when people are acting weird and get them away from safety sensitive duties until we've taken a closer look and resolved any questions regarding their fitness for duty. In flight, given a choice between satisfying an urgent need to visit the loo and leaving someone who's fitness I've begun to doubt up front I'd... Damn those quick turns!

Pace
12th Jun 2015, 06:55
With the Biggest study on mass murders showing no history of serious mental disorder in 8 out of 10 murders we have to look at the reality of these tests.
The airline had its reputation severely damaged by this crash and are in the business of selling seats on their aircraft.

They have to say to the paying public " Look what we have done to make sure this never happens again". the fact that what they implement has no practical benefit does not matter to them. What matters is that the public feel safe and making the public " feel" safe is very different from the fact that the public are safe.
Testing is like a statement. The public think food!! we have tested this food and its safe for public consumption but testing people is not like that! There is no test which can determine a mass murderer

Any aviation medical is a snapshot in time. someone maybe fine today not so fine tomorrow and the best placed people to monitor a pilots mental well being are his family, lovers, friends and colleagues who will know the pilot on a day by day basis.

i mentioned an anonymous web site where those people can express concerns over a pilot with a degree of anonymity. I stress degree as there are always troublemakers trying to cause problems but at least such a website would alert the medical department to check whether there is any basis to those concerns expressed.

There is a place for drug testing I think the japanese railway train drivers have to blow into a breathalyser when signing on for duty.

I really don't think drug testing of pilots would expose a future Lubitz but his girlfriend would have done had she expressed her concerns over his deteriorating mental condition and anger explosions at her.
Maybe more training of crew in monitoring colleagues to see and report tell tale signs would also help but drug testing? purely a cosmetic marketing exercise

RexBanner
12th Jun 2015, 08:58
Nonsense I have massive confidence in a diagnosis of psychopathy (which is fundamentally a lack of empathy and remorse) in the case of a guy who premeditated and executed the murder of 150 people in cold blood.

You show me how that diagnosis is in any way unsound and I'll happily retract it for you.

You have the right handle at least.

RexBanner
12th Jun 2015, 12:51
Or Springfield's Elliot Ness....

I didn't diagnose the guy I just said he was most likely a psychopath with another personality disorder which I didn't specify (psychopathy is obviously a disorder in itself!). The fact that he killed 150 people in premeditated fashion whilst ignoring the frantic pleas of the Captain proves beyond reasonable doubt that he had pyschopathic tendencies and that much you have agreed with. I did not speculate further.

I've never argued with you about tests for psychopaths (as it happens I agree) and I'm not arguing with you now. You're on your own on that one. What I object to is lumping this case together with depression. It's completely different.

glofish
12th Jun 2015, 13:58
a diagnosis of psychopathy (which is fundamentally a lack of empathy and remorse)

So according to this diagnosis most airline managers must be psychopaths.
Do they get initial medical tests, or regular annual ones, not to speak of random ones?

No, they get bonuses. :ugh:

Pace
12th Jun 2015, 14:10
Rex Banner my apologies I thought your post was directed at me ! We speak the same language

Mac the Knife
12th Jun 2015, 15:30
"Lubitz didn't kill all of those people because he was depressed. He did it because he was a psychopath with a personality disorder."

Anecdotal of course, but a long career in medicine (and a scary number of colleagues who have committed suicide from depression) inclines me to believe that that is true. None of them ever killed anyone else during the course of their suicide.

Lubitz may well have been depressed, but taking 150 other people with you when you decide to off yourself argues for a rather different mindset from yer average depressive suicide......

:ooh:

Pace
12th Jun 2015, 18:03
Psychiatrists are psychiatrists

Then please enlighten us by directing us to the expert official diagnosis report of what was mentally wrong with Lubitz that would cause him to pre meditate, pre plan and then to execute his terrible murderous deed.

People with severe depression throw them selves under a train with no ill intent to others

if no one knows what was wrong specifically with Lubitz and I have not seen such a report then its all waffle as well as the drugs test! what are those tests supposed to show when 8 out of 10 mass murderers have no history of severe mental disorders

Derfred
13th Jun 2015, 05:51
Let's take it to the extreme - supposing the industry decided to subject every pilot to a mental health examination (carried out by a mental health professional) to determine whether the pilot was mentally fit for duty.

I suspect even Lubitz would have passed this assessment on this day. He would have made sure of it - this was going to be a big day for him.

There was an infamous rape/murder in Melbourne a short while ago in which the perpetrator had been jailed previously for similar offences but released early on parole based on the fact that he had persuaded officials (which would have included mental health professionals) of his complete reform. Only months later, he raped and murdered another young lady. Google Jill Meagher.

The point is, real psychopaths are good at hiding it.

Fortunately, not many of them become pilots. The statistics are on our side.

Pace
13th Jun 2015, 11:01
The FAA on May 27 announced that it had created a Pilot Fitness Aviation Rulemaking Committee to study the awareness and reporting of pilot emotional and mental health issues, methods used to evaluate emotional and mental health, and “barriers to reporting such issues.” The group, made up of U.S. and international government and industry members, including IATA, is expected to make recommendations to the FAA within six months. The Germanwings crash also highlighted the benefits of having two crewmembers on the flight deck at all times, a standard operating procedure in the U.S. since 2001, but one that is not yet universal, in part because of unfamiliarity with the process. Regarding the increasing melding of criminal and civil investigations

This is a snippet from the IATA report and from the old and new issues thread.

As usual the FAA get it right EASA get it wrong
Any medical like my class1 a week ago is a snapshot in time the same goes for any further mental tests.
8 out of 10 mass murderers have no signs of serious mental history and as other posters stated are probably Psychopaths who are very good at manipulating or covering up situations to their own advantage and devoid of emotions to others.

A snapshot in time doesn't mean that someone who passes with flying colours one day won't have some trigger event 2 weeks later

If I read what the FAA have hinted at more training and emphasis should be put on Pilots and colleagues to be made aware of psychological changes in the pilots they work with and more emphasis should be placed on colleagues to report such concerns. An anonymous medical Website with safeguards against malicious reporting would probably be the most beneficial move that can be made to eliminate a very unlikely event from happening again.

EASA no doubt will go with the pubic pacifying gestures rather than practical meaningful solutions