Is there a test for "Good GA Pilot"

[Big Pistons Forever]

I was chatting with a fellow at the local flying school when he asked the question in the title of this thread

My reply:

There is absolutely a test to separate the good pilots from the rest. It is before you start the engine I will cover the airspeed indicator.

You will then takeoff fly a normal circuit and perform a normal landing with the correct landing attitude. at the chosen touch down point and on centerline with the aircraft straight.

If you can do that you are IMHO a "good pilot"

[9 lives]

I dunno Big Pistons, I've done that a few times, but it was not a covered ASI, it was 'cause I forgot to take the pitot cover off, so I'm not sure I met the "good pilot" mark...:ouch:

By the way... Taxiing in the middle of the lake in a 180, it's surprisingly difficult to reach the pitot cover, before you go to pick up your passengers at the dock :uhoh:

[westhawk]

I think being able to fly without the ASI is a good skill for a pilot to have. It proves they understand something about the relationship between pitch, power and performance. But as a test of airman competency? Not so much unless it is just one of a great many other tests of ability and cognitive function as a pilot. Training and checking every pilot on that single skill, while valuable, cannot reveal their overall competency as a pilot any more than having them demonstrate any number of other skills.

However I personally find that the covered instrument drills are a good workout for any pilot under instruction or checking and demonstrate their ability to to understand the relationship between attitude and indicated performance. If this translates to more cross checking and correlation, then we've done some good as instructors.

As an aside, a quick story: I started covering the ASI with all my flight students after witnessing a rather extreme looking landing. I was particularly interested in this one because it was one of our club aircraft and I was one of several club instructors in our 60 member club!

The guy comes ripping in for landing doing at least 100kts in one of our 172s with what appears to be about 20 deg. flaps. The inevitable porpoise cycles occur as he forces it on at about the midpoint of the 5,000' runway. Finally running out of energy after 5 or 6 cycles, he skids the tires and turns off the runway with several feet to spare.

A friend and I get in my car and head down to the parking area, arriving just before the airplane. He's been taxiing the airplane up there with about 2,000 rpm due to the rolling drag of the flat nose tire. My friend gets his attention and waves him off from attempting to power into the parking spot and gives him a cutoff signal.

After shutting down the guy gets out and I approach him to gently ask him what happened. He replies that he ASI didn't appear to be working... Before I could say anything else, my friend blurts out "SO?" The guy says he didn't have any airspeed. My friend replies "well it sure looked to us like you had way more than enough speed !"

Anyway, the nose tire was flat and the nose fairing was broken. The paint on the lower cowling didn't look right but no other visible damage was apparent. I could barely believe the prop was pristine after all that porpoise bouncing. When I looked at the pitot tube, the back half of a honey bee was noted sticking out! The tweezers on my Swiss Army knife duly removed said insect intact and still alive! (temporarily....)

We saw to it that the airplane was inspected by our maintenance shop. The firewall, engine mount and isolators were all inspected along with the nose strut with no damage found. The nosewheel had to be replaced and a new tires all around. (Stomping the brakes and taxiing on a flat nose tire can get expensive) If the C-172 isn't about the most forgiving airplane ever built, than I'm sure I don't know what is!

A willingness to pay for the trip to the mx shop and to undertake some supplemental training kept the errant member from being banished from the club. ALL the club instructors adopted the ASI drill and put increased emphasis on preflight inspection during checkouts and annual check flights. As a relatively new CFI at the time, maybe I was just lucky I didn't train him. The cheapest lessons are learned from the mistakes of others...

westhawk

[ChickenHouse]

This can end in a longish discussion. Beforehand one could even ask, wether there is such thing as a "good pilot"?

A test for an able airmen, not excluding women and transgender species, may be, looking at flights preparation and do some practical test. I like the idea of covering instruments and let go for a circuit. It reminds me of night flying with all lights off, no light at all in the cockpit and airport and runway dark (do they still train that in PPL?).

A so-called modern pilot might be asked to exchange that flight skills test by a written exam on how to fire up G1000 ...

[Pace]

Its quite simple really and only needs you to answer a simple question? Would you be happy to send your loved ones up for a flight with that pilot! If the answer is yes you KNOW that pilot is good! If your not sure or the answer is NO then you have your answer.

Pace

[mary meagher]

Three times, in a glider, I have realised on aerotow that the ASI made no sense at all. Though the tow plane was climbing steadily, the ASI read ZERO!, and then the needle moved right round the dial until it read 350 k...
Clearly it was lying. As we were still flying.

So on coming off tow I did a bit of flying round, actually quite a lot as it was a good day, to get used to the air sounds, the attitude. Coming in to land, a little bit faster than normal, but on all three occasions no problem.

Must remember to take the electrician's tape off the pitot and static ports...

[Pace]

There was a published report where a Cirrus pilot wrecked a perfectly serviceable aeroplane by pulling the BRS because of loss of airspeed indication.:ugh:

I would make it part of the PPL course to fly a complete circuit without an ASI because that shows the pilot has a good feel for the aircraft as well as being in tune with the various power and attitude and drag settings

Pace

[Crash one]

Twice round the circuit with the pitot cover on, I don't think it made me a good pilot, just forgetful.
Gliding years ago, ASI, ALT, VSI all covered up, fly for half an hour on the hill, stalls, spin and land, successfully! Never had much problem since.

[Heebicka]

here in EASA land I did full circuit with covered both ASI and altimeter during my PPL. it was even before I was going first solo.
(and also it was my best circuit because I was not overfocused on instruments but on flying..)

[Crash one]

Heebicka
(and also it was my best circuit because I was not overfocused on instruments but on flying..)


I think this is the thing, faffing around chasing speeds and stuff.

[bookworm]

Is there a test for "Good GA Pilot"?

Detection of a pulse has a Darwinian simplicity about it.

[Jetblu]

Having the ability to fly an aircraft with no ASI and to fly a good approach and land at a given point on the centreline only demonstrates an experienced pilot.

Being a good pilot does not entirely just fall into the above parameters.

Any pilot who can water-ski is a good pilot. :-)

[Pace]

Having flown with quite a few pilots there is one observation which is important.
That is the ability to pick up ones game to whatever is required without getting overloaded and being spatially aware.

Some pilots can be incredibly detailed but go at one mental speed! Try and load that person and its like watching a video game starting to stutter as the old graphics card cannot keep up.
Training / currency /experience has part to do with that but IMO not all

Just an observation from pilots who I admire and all have that ability

Pace

[tecman]

Covering instruments? Not in any flight manual, so clearly a dangerous maverick act ;)

In all seriousness, I think it is a good exercise and my one unintentional no-ASI episode was when part of the pitot plumbing in C172 fell apart on the first take-off after its periodic.

Judging from the problems I sometimes see in pilots keeping the aeroplane in balance, some demonstration of 'butt calibration' might be good too!

With the technical skills addressed, I don't know how you quickly gauge the judgement side of things. But I've normally formed an opinion by the time we reach the run-up bay. That opinion is more than half of my answer to Pace's question re family members.

[9 lives]

Covering instruments? Not in any flight manual

There are many Flight Manuals which reference partial panel flying, and pitot and static blockages, in Emergency or Abnormal Procedures sections. More and more, AHRS failures are also being discussed in Flight Manuals, along with procedures to be trained in those situations.

So, good training to conduct... ;)

[tecman]

Ahh..so down to checking the specific manual then? ;)

Despite being a fan of this exercise, I have occasionally wondered about the legality of competion blind circuits etc given the minimum instrument prescription list for VFR flying in Australia. There are probably training dispensations but do they cover intentionally taking off with no visible ASI (and as most SEPs only have 1 ASI, I guess that precludes a RH seat view as well)?

It doesn't keep me awake but the question did again occur to me in the context of the present conversation.

[FleetFlyer]

I've never forgotten to remove the pitot cover and never taken off with it blocked. I may well in the future though as I am just as fallible as the next guy. I have however managed to get caught out with on a longer journey home than planned and had to land at night with no instrument lighting. There wasn't very much in the way of outside references for horizon and there was no runway lighting or papis. It worked out fine, and I'm sure its because I knew the aeroplane and regard good piloting to be about good stick and rudder skills above and beyond good nav and coms skills. This is also why I'm a crappy navigator.

Edited to say that I had no instruments at all for the last 10 minutes of the flight. If I was a better pilot I would have had a torch in my flight bag but I had taken it out some weeks previously and forgotten to put it back.

[Pilot DAR]

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/oo252/PilotDAR/Aircraft/IMG_0826.jpg

[Bob Upanddown]

There is absolutely a test to separate the good pilots from the rest. It is before you start the engine I will cover the airspeed indicator.

You will then takeoff fly a normal circuit and perform a normal landing with the correct landing attitude. at the chosen touch down point and on centerline with the aircraft straight.

If you can do that you are IMHO a "good pilot" And if you try and you can't do that and end up crashing the airplane, I would love to see the insurance claim form........

What you don't say is whether this is a solo exercise for someone who thinks he is a good pilot and needs to prove it others or whether it is with an instructor (who thinks he is a good pilot and needs to prove it to the student)?

Frankly, there is a lot more, IMHO, to being a good pilot. It is not something you can ever prove to yourself but depends on the opinion of those who have seen you fly and those who fly with you.

[Johnm]

I've twice found myself in solid IMC with no pitot static instruments, but as I had an aircraft flying in trim, a transponder telling me FL and knew the power settings for a reasonable descent it wasn't an issue.

It's important to know your aeroplane.

[IFMU]

I could pass Big Piston's test. CFIs have done it to me. My Blanik L33 Solo used to have issues from being tied out no matter how I covered or taped the ports. I have had the airspeed indication fail in a super cub, and in a C140 just like Pilot DAR's picture. I have flown a lot of glider PIC in the back. In a 2-33 you can see the ASI and altimiter if your passenger is small enough and they look out the right side. In a Krosno you can only see the reflection of the vario in the canopy.

Still, I have to assume I am a bad pilot because I sometimes reduce flaps on finals. Done it many times tugging in the pawnee, where I did every landing power off. Also done it in the Arrow, PA18 and C140. Plus my flapped glider.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Guys,

I have seen this question asked in various forms and in various places over the years. Invariably, the consensus seems to come down in favour of someone being able to fly a safe circuit without any instruments; (i.e. old fashioned seat-of-the-pants flying).

Now being able to do that certainly attests to a person's VMC handling skills, (although whether such skills would be of any help when flying on instruments is very doubtful). But flying is vastly more than just handling skills; (although good handling skills are a good thing to have for a start).

Personally, I don't agree. A pilot may be able to fly a perfect circuit without reference to instruments but be an irresponsible pratt in every other respect.

To me, the qualities a good GA pilot boil down more to attitude than anything else as attitude permeates everything he/she does. So for my money the pilot should: -
1. have a well developed sense of responsibility,
2. be knowledgeable in regard to flying,
3. be thorough in regard to everything to do with the flight right from flight planning to shut down.
4. have foresight in regard to the things that are likely to be encountered in any flight and make preparation for them.
5. be ever willing to learn.

If these things are to be tested at all, they would probably only be tested by means of properly conducted psychometric testing.

Well that's my two pennyworth,

BP.

[Big Pistons Forever]

BP

Your points are correct. There are many facets to being a good pilot, however my experience is that it is rather rare to see a pilot with the skills to fly my ASI covered test circuit correctly and yet be a bad pilot everywhere else.

It takes personal discipline to fly a proper circuit at the correct height, with square corners, with a stable on speed approach etc etc. Poor pilots don't either have or want to have that kind of discipline as it is antithetical to their entire style of flying.

Bob upanddown

This of course is meant as a dual exercise as I thought was obvious from my post. Obviously the instructor skills have to be up to the exercise. I will periodically remove the cover during the exercise after asking the student what they think the speed is and providing my estimate. I find it is unusual if I am wrong by more than 2 knots. The best part is the student will quickly be just as close after a bit of practice.

If you are an instructor and uncomfortable doing this exercise I would respectfully suggest you should work at building your personal flying skills as this exercise is the kind of brute stick and rudder skills essential to effective instructing.

[Pace]

And if you try and you can't do that and end up crashing the airplane, I would love to see the insurance claim form........

What you don't say is whether this is a solo exercise for someone who thinks he is a good pilot and needs to prove it others or whether it is with an instructor (who thinks he is a good pilot and needs to prove it to the student)?

Why should it be a dual exercise? Should a PFL be a dual exercise? stalling? steep turns? Spiral dives? I dare not mention spins?
Is there something magic about an instructor? The whole point about practising these things is that you are up to speed if they happen for real? Is it better to fly a circuit with the ASI covered in good VMC or to loose it for real solid IMC? Yes had that plus many other things go wrong for real.

With 1000s of hours you need a 300 hour instructor to hold your hand? As for risk? If you are not prepared to take some risk don't go flying take up something else.

it s exposure to dealing with problems that builds experience / As they say practice makes for perfect in any occupation. Then you are better prepared for things for real when they might happen in less than perfect situations and with other problems to keep you occupied.

Anyway if flying your circuit for practice with the ASI covered and you are not happy just uncover it :ugh:Voila instant airspeed back again ;)

Also how many loose the ASI and then totally ignore the GPS groundspeed? As astute pilots I am sure we are aware of the winds at all time and low level can roughly know the airspeed from that

Pace

[BroomstickPilot]

Oh and I forgot to include the obvious essential quality - common sense.

BP.