6 on 2 off

[atcsstudent]

Hi everyone, just to let you know that today the Spanish Justice has declared that our shifts (atcos) can be 6 on 2 off, when the 6th day it's usually a night. It's really mad, if things keep on going like this we'll have no rights at all.
So, what do you think about these things happening in Spainistan?

[Una Due Tfc]

Disgraceful. There'll be even more severe incidents, separation losses etc. Many of the most severe incidents I have read about in recent years have happened in Spanish airspace, doubtless down to rostering and shift lengths. AENA has been a disgrace for years, no oversight, no accountability. Ask any pilot which is their least favourite/most stressful airspace to fly into in Europe and their answer will be.....

[LXGB]

6 on 2 off is not unheard of in the UK. I'm not a fan of that particular shift pattern.

[Una Due Tfc]

It all depends on shift lengths though, and from what I hear, theirs are looooonngg

[Radar Contact Lost]

In the UK at least you are required to have a 60 hour interval following six consecutive periods of duty.

[chevvron]

More normally 6 on 3 off in the UK.

[atcsstudent]

Normally 3 mornings, 2 afternoons, 1 night. But it can be 2 nights at the end, ... 8 hour shifts... and yes if you only rest 1 and a half days shifts are bloody looooooong!!!!!

[manusa]

I would like to know who Enaire (previously AENA) is consulting for this.
Not active ATCOs, that's for sure. :bored:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I met a young doctor in the intensive care ward of a large local hospital. He said he was looking forward to his day off (note singular - one day) after 21 days working!

[hangten]

Your point is well made HD, the ATCO community (and aviation in general) has it good compared to many other jobs, even those where safety of life is at stake.

However, I don't think the error record within the medical profession is one we should be willing to emulate. There is an entire industry in the western world built up around suing after doctor's mistakes. If anything, the medical profession should be looking to aviation for how to better manage the risk of human error.

There will always be a balance between the books and the risk, IMHO 6 on 2 off is starting to push the limits a little too far towards the books. I am a little biased though. :E

[Squawk 7500]

Hangten,

Well said!

[Catwalk Dweller]

"Hi everyone, just to let you know that today the Spanish Justice has declared that our shifts (atcos) can be 6 on 2 off, when the 6th day it's usually a night."

Just so everything's clear, when you say "2 off" do you actually mean 48 hours off?

[360BakTrak]

If it's 'sleep day' then 'day off' then that isn't really 2 days off in the pure sense as you're working until around 0600 on your sleep day! That day is generally a write-off then if you start back on a morning shift your actual day off isn't great as you have to get up early for work the next day! :ugh::uhoh::mad:

[Contact Approach]

Just to echo the words of HD, my brother is expected to be on call for up to 48 hours at a time - surgery. Nightmare.

C.A

[kcockayne]

What happens in the medical profession is, in the first instance, their affair & for them to sort out. And, for the rest of us, to avoid getting admitted to hospital!
What happens in ATC is the affair of Controllers & ATSAS.
If Spanish ATCOS are being told that they can only have 2 days off in 6, & 1 of those being a rest day after a night duty, then that, in my book, is TOTALLY unacceptable - for reasons which I do not need to explain here.

[atcsstudent]

"Hi everyone, just to let you know that today the Spanish Justice has declared that our shifts (atcos) can be 6 on 2 off, when the 6th day it's usually a night."

Just so everything's clear, when you say "2 off" do you actually mean 48 hours off?

It should be 54 hours, but ENAIRE, for sure nowing them, will just give us 48 hours

[atcsstudent]

According to Enaire, we need at least 3 breaks of at least 54 hours every month, but any of them can be reduced to 48 hours (when ever they want)

[Oubi]

In Belgium, we're allowed 12 consecutive days, then we must have 2 off...
but if we work 11 consecutive days, one day off is enough for another 11 days... and it happens regularly...

[atcsstudent]

Are you kidding??

[Oubi]

I wish I was kidding...
and there's a limitation in a way the extra hours are paid...
It's really bad, but there's no "law" to prevent that from happening.
Considering the management reacted quite late for recruiting, many units are understaffed, then we work a lot, especially in summer time...

[BigDaddyBoxMeal]

I met a young doctor in the intensive care ward of a large local hospital. He said he was looking forward to his day off (note singular - one day) after 21 days working!

Not saying I agree with the doctors hours, far from it... but I'm pretty sure you benefited from much better working arrangements when you were in ATC (as do UK ATCOs today) and would not have appreciated what has been happening in Spain.

[kcockayne]

Having read HD's many postings in these columns, I have appreciated his wit, sense of humour , professional experiences & general comments.
His medical analogy serves to draw attention to the facts of life, away from ATC, where conditions of employment are often diabolical. As such, they give us a sense of perspective by illustrating the absurdities of life elsewhere (outside of ATC).
Whilst appreciating his latest post, I have to say that it, the situation in Spanish ATC & situations elsewhere in the modern world, only instil in me the greatest trepidation that the modern commercial world is going mad in trying to squeeze the last drop of blood out of professionals who, twenty years & more ago, were held in high esteem by their employers & the general public.
It is often said that Trade Unions abuse (or abused) their power, & maybe they do & they did. But, the boot is now firmly on the other foot.
These pages are full of examples where some employers are doing nothing less than "taking the piss" out of their professional employees & imposing horrendous terms & conditions upon them, staggeringly, within the appropriate regulations !
It is time for those professionals to stand up & oppose this madness & force a change in the regulations more commensurate with how they used to be.
Regrettably, I do not think that they will !

[Toadpool]

I have been hearing nasty rumours that the UK's SARG are considering scrapping SRATCOH, replacing it with a "unit specific" scheme.
This gives me grave cause for concern, given the intensive research that was undertaken into ATCOs fatigue before SRATCOH was introduced, that we could be potentially back to the 16+ hour shifts that used to be worked at my unit.
We are already pushing and sometimes exceeding the limits of SRATCOH, due to staff shortages, regular requests for extentions of airport hours, etc. There is always the moral pressure applied, e.g. the airport needs the business, we are losing money, etc.
SRATCOH is the only protection we have, or we could be in similar postions to those already mentioned by others.

[jmmoric]

You could all quit your job, then reapply, but state your terms for the new contracts.

Otherwise, find something else to do?

[360BakTrak]

Ditching SRATCOH?? That'll make roster-writing a breeze!!! :E:}