Choosing a Gliding Club

[Simp123]

Hi

I need some assistance and was hoping someone on this forum would be able to point me in the right direction.

I have always wanted to learn to fly but powered has always been out of reach because of the high costs involved. However I recently discovered gliding which seem significantly cheaper.

I am hoping to do a one day intro course first, can anyone recommend a good gliding club around London?
I live in East London/ Essex borders, I've narrowed it down to London Gliding Club (Dunstable) and Essex Gliding Club (Wormingford), which are roughly the same distance from me.

Anyone got any experience of the two? I have tried to research them both and there doesn't seem to much difference apart from Dunstable seem to be a lot more expensive then Wormingford.

Any thought on the two or any others around London?

Much appreciated

[Fantome]

Why not pool your resources, come visit Australia Felix,
learn to glide at Benalla, see the world comps there next January
see bits of the wide brown land that David Attenborough did
not get to, and go home with more than a few worthwhile hours
in your LOG BOOK?

Gliding Club of Victoria (http://www.glidingclub.org.au/)

[Piper.Classique]

Assuming you can't afford Australia, you should probably do a one week course once you have done the day course. Winch launching from a hill site should get you the best ratio of time in the air to cash expended, and my personal recommendation would be the Midland Club at the Long Mynd or Sutton Bank in Yorkshire. The strategic use of a motor glider also helps keep the costs down. What you need to make progress isn't a lot of circuits off the winch, it is time in the air and REGULAR flying. Hence a combination of hill site, flying the ridge, motor glider and the odd aerotow. All of those at the bank, not usually aerotow at the Mynd. I know they aren't near London, but should be possible for a week.
I've flown at Dunstable but not Wormingford. Price matters, but not at the expense of availability. You should ask when the club operates, and whether you will be able to fly regularly with a small group of instructors. I would not choose a winch only site unless there was hill soaring to be had. (Time in the air.....)

[pulse1]

London Gliding Club is a professionally run club which operates 7 days a week. I don't know much about the Essex club but, from their website, they only operate 3 or 4 days a week and, like most clubs, probably relies on members for winch driving and instructors etc. Also probably more friendly than LGC which can be friendly if you happen to be learning with friendly people.

In my experience, instruction can be a bit haphazard in clubs which are run entirely by the members but, if you are not in a hurry, will be cheaper and more fun.

[rightbank]

Essex Gliding Club (Wormingford)

Its the Essex and Suffolk Gliding club that flies at Wormingford.

The Essex Gliding club flies from Ridgewell, possibly also a contender for you from where you live.

[CISTRS]

What Piper.Classique said. Very good advice.
Do a week's course (generally 5 weekdays) and stay for the following weekend to get a flavour of the membership and ambiance.

[Fantome]

this advice is spot on. There is no better way to kick off or better way to find out if you and gliding have a future.
Take it from those who have seen the results and the benefits time and again.

[cumulusrider]

If you are looking at more than a one day course most of the bigger gliding clubs have on site accommodation available for visitors and members.
Depending on the weather and the club you might be solo within a weeks course.
Unlike power flying where you have to do a set number of hours to get your PPL, gliding tends to to be based upon an individuals ability.
Like most forms of training it is better to have regular lessons. When i was learning I could only afford 3 flights a weekend. The first was trying to remember what I had learned the previous weekend. The second was learning something new and the third was consolidation. Two forward and one back all the time.
As has been said on this site before gliding clubs rely on members (and trainees) to help on the ground so expect to spend all day on the airfield.
Best of luck.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Simp123

It's very many years since I was a member of London Gliding Club at Dunstable Downs, but there are a few things that will not have changed; in particular, the site itself. Dunstable is an exceedingly complex site with three runways and therefore six directions of take-off and landing, each of which has its safety issues, notably the proximity of the ridge immediately along one side of the field, which complicates things.

When I was there, you needed a separate instructor check-out for each direction of take-off/landing. This meant that you might be flying solo on a direction you are checked out on only for the wind to change to one that you are not checked out on, so you are back with an instructor. And you only have to have gone a few weeks without using that direction of take-off/landing for your check-out to expire and have to be renewed with more than one instructor check flight.

So if you do take up gliding, my advice would be to start at some other club located at a flat site and only transfer to Dunstable when your gliding has reached a high standard; (i.e. 'C' Certificate or above and when you are ready to buy into a group). When I was at Dunstable there were ab-initio people there who had taken three YEARS just to go solo!

My advice would be to take a summer, one-week, holiday gliding course at a flat, uncomplicated gliding site. Read a book on gliding theory before you go as in my experience theory is not taught on the courses. A course would be an excellent way to gain your first basic flying skills.

Finally, unlike powered flying, (where you can turn up have your lesson and then go home,) in gliding you have to spend a lot of time on the ground man-handling gliders and cables, helping to get other people airborne. You will probably have to get there in the early morning to get your name high on the flying list and help get the gliders out to the launch point. You will then spend perhaps a couple of hours manhandling gliders and cables before it is your turn to fly, and then after flying you will be expected to stay on and help everybody else fly. So expect to be there all day.

And don't think gliding is cheap. It isn't. Those small fees and costs soon build up.

Here's something else about gliding that I can't imagine will have changed much since I was gliding. On a gliding site at the start of every day the instructors will open a fresh 'flying list' on which people who wish to fly that day will put their names down. People fly in strict order of their names appearing on that list. As people have their flights their names are crossed off the list. So the higher your name is on that list, the earlier you get to fly

When I was at Dunstable, it was common for that flying list to be thirty or more names long by 9 a.m. So if you get there in the mid-morning, you can still put your name down, but there will still be about twenty odd names above yours. It was quite common for the people at the bottom of the list to work hard all day but not to fly at all that day, (especially if the weather changed during the day,) this after putting in a hard day's work heaving gliders and cables on the ground.

Some clubs, (notably Dunstable,) used to have botheys. These were effectively dormitories where you could stay overnight and eat breakfast the following morning in the club canteen. So you could arrive the night before, sleep in the bothey, breakfast early, and then crawl out in time for the commencement of activities the following morning. It might be worth asking if this service is available.

In regard to how to get started, I would say do a trial flight. If you like it, do a week's course.

Good luck!

BP.

[Oldbiggincfi]

Consider Kenley.
Only a week day club. So you need time off in the week.
Gliding is not turn up, fly and go home, so be prepared to spend at least half a day and enjoy the club activities.
If you are in reach of the Dartford Crossing only 20-25 mins along the M25.
Gliding does not normally start before 10.30 AM so you travel outside peak traffic hours.
Very cheap - winch launch only £7, 35p per min flying fees, instruction free.
You learn a lot very quickly.
A good days flying can be had for £30 to £35 with 5 launches.
Buying a trial lesson from the club gives a 3 month membership allowing you to fly at club rates.

Surrey Hills Gliding Club
Kenley Airfield, Kenley, Surrey. UK CR3 5FX Tel: 0208-7630091 Web: http://www.southlondongliding.co.uk (http://www.southlondongliding.co.uk/)


Also a brief walk from White leaf Railway Stations

[India Four Two]

Simp123,

I know nothing about the equipment at the gliding clubs that have been mentioned, but my advice, based on instructional experience, is start off on a motorglider. A much better learning enviroment and better value for money and your time investment.

I used to teach on a Motorfalke and students could consistently get six circuits in a one hour lesson when learning to land. That could take several weeks, if flying weekends only at a regular club.

[mary meagher]

Broomstick, a lot - and I mean a lot! has changed for the better at Dunstable!

Despite the interesting undulations of the airfield, the instructors and the entire atmosphere have changed, so that you would not be held back by inappropriate petty rules any more. They have a first rate fleet of gliders, and a professional attitude toward instruction, so you will find it much easier these days to make good progress.

Be sure that I am COMPLETELY WITHOUT PREJUDICE recommending a club that isn't mine! I fly at Shenington, 7 nm NW of Banbury, we also have a ridge and an airfield that is not as big as others (Lasham is the biggest club in the UK, and also enjoys the biggest flattest airfield, and has a nice cafe. But no ridge. A ridge can be used to stay airborne...indefinitely, if the wind is right.

Visit the club, have a trial lesson before you commit your cash and your time.

And if you suffer from travel sickness, and it is a GOOD DAY for soaring, I advise beginners to take a quell before going up. After 8 or 10 flights when you are doing most of the flying, the tendency to turn green is forgotten.
Power planes fly in straight lines. Gliders, on a good day will do a fair bit of turning in lift. You have been warned!

(My longest flight in the UK in a single seat glider, in THERMALS was 8 hours and 53 minutes....and over 500 kilometers.) Mainly it is great fun.

Mary

[cats_five]

Flying a Falke and flying a glider are chalk & cheese. Gliders are so much nicer to fly. Circuits in a Falke might be appropriate for someone struggling to land, but that's it in my view.

Ridges are lovely, but those of us who learnt at ridge sites get to Bronze + XC and are carp at thermalling compared to our compatriots who learnt at sites without ridges.

[Heady1977]

All good advice from those above.

There are quite a few good previous comment threads also to review at your leisure.

A quick search brought up for example the following:
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/526975-any-glider-pilots-here-2.html

[Simp123]

Thank you all for the replies, much appreciated.

Its certainly given me a lot more to research and think about.

[India Four Two]

Flying a Falke and flying a glider are chalk & cheese. Gliders are so much nicer to fly. Circuits in a Falke might be appropriate for someone struggling to land, but that's it in my view.I would say more like different kinds of cheese. The Motorfalke is ugly and is low performance, but with the engine off, it does fly like a glider and more importantly has spoilers, so I was able to teach students how to make glider approaches. The key factor was repetition of six or so circuits, one after the other, which made for much better skill development. You also only need two people, the instructor and student, to have an operation.

My gliding club, which I have recently rejoined after an extended absence overseas, runs an aerotow-only operation, four days a week on its own grass field. Two tow planes, enthusiastic instructors and a club fleet consisting of ASK-21 and DG-1000 two-seaters plus a DG-303 and a Jantar.

At the recent AGM, I was staggered to learn that about 40% of new members don't rejoin for a second season. This is being investigated by the executive, but I suspect that the primary reason is that too much time is wasted hanging around the airfield waiting to fly. It's not the money - many people have the approximately £1000 it would cost a student to fly during the six-month season and it's cheaper than golf.

Coincidentally, I have just (finally) read Derek Pigott's autobiography: "Delta Papa - a Life of Flying". A great read and in the last chapter, where he describes a typical day at Lasham when he was CFI, the use of motorgliders for training features very prominently. He puts the case for using motorgliders much more eloquently than I ever could.

[davydine]

Have never flown from Dunstable, but I did learn to fly at Wormingford. They have a pretty decent trainig fleet, two K13's, a K21 and a grob twin III ACRO. They also have 4 single seaters and I believe 2 winches, so they are have plenty of equipment, so you should always be able to fly.

They fly on saturday, sunday, wednesday and friday.

Which club you choose will depend on what days you can fly and how much you want to spend, most clubs like Wormingford would expect you to do your share of jobs. Typically you would either arrive early in the morning to help get the kit out or stay to help pack everything away. I would arrive early so you can get your name near the top of the flying list.

I would recommend visiting a few different clubs to see which is the best fit for your needs, i flew from several, when I have been visiting different parts of the country and some have a very different "feel" about them

You might also try Cambridge gliding club at Gransden, just up the M11. The best club for you isn't always the closest.

Whichever club you choose I hope you enjoy it

[Fitter2]

Gliding used to be like that; the club where I currently fly has an on-line booking system for training. You are still dependent on weather, but that's not unique to gliding. There is also an evening group system so you can fly with the same instructor(s), which can be a continuity problem in larger clubs.

(Lasham, in case you need to ask)

[Prop swinger]

. . . and of course once you are qualified you turn up on a soaring day, prep your aircraft, get in and go flying. One take-off, hours of soaring.