FAA Targets 2018 For GPS-Based Autoland Capability [Archive]

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underfire

5th May 2015, 22:09

"The FAA says airlines may be able to begin using ground-based augmentation systems (GBAS) for satellite-based Category 3 instrument landings that culminate in a 50-ft. decision height or an automatic landing by 2018, offering a lower-cost alternative to legacy ground-based instrument landing systems (ILS)."

FAA Targets 2018 For GPS-Based Autoland Capability (http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/faa-targets-2018-gps-based-autoland-capability?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20150429_AW-05_324&YM_RID=%27email%27&YM_MID=%27mmid%27&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_3_b)

Capn Bloggs

5th May 2015, 23:15

"Legacy"; the second most-abused word of the english language, after "like". :}

mikedreamer787

6th May 2015, 04:55

Same here Bloggs. When I first came across this 'legacy' nonsense I thought it was a reference to Legacy Airlines out of Indianapolis or Legacy Air out of Bangkok.

I've since worked out 'legacy' = 'real'.

Denti

6th May 2015, 06:54

We have done GBAS autoland trials a few years ago already. Very very smooth and reliable, til the end of the automatic rollout. And since there is no need for protected areas there is the possibility of increasing traffic flow in low vis conditions.

Would love to have it available if only the retrofit costs on airbii weren't that ridiculous.

underfire

8th May 2015, 04:55

Exactly. There are quite a few in operation around the world, not with Commercial ac but with Military ac.

Sir George Cayley

8th May 2015, 18:24

What effect will this have on airport safeguarding for Lo Vis Ops?

lpvapproach

12th May 2015, 06:35

Good, the more peer pressure that is put on UK to get gps approachs rolled out the better.

GlobalNav

13th May 2015, 17:27

Some recent Boeing and Airbus models are equipped with GLS systems qualified for Category I and autoland, as a first step toward Cat III and, for that matter, as an additional opportunity to regularly exercise the autoland functions.

Cat I GLS can be flown at EWR and IAH and perhaps some others by now, but not sure if autoland is available in every case. The key prerequisite is installation of a qualified ground station (GBAS) - GAST C for Cat I and GAST D for Cat III (not yet in service). A key difference is increased signal integrity.

Cat III operations, of course, require more than airborne and navaid systems, they also require an runway/airport infrastructure, especially lights and the low visibility surface movement plan with associated markings, lights, procedures, etc. Nevertheless, as previously mentioned in this thread, the GBAS GAST D would be less expensive than the Cat III ILS installation, plus usable for all qualified runways in the vicinity not just one as with ILS.

Oriana

17th May 2015, 04:19

UK doesn't have GPS Approaches??? really?

:ugh:

Skornogr4phy

17th May 2015, 08:40

This is specifically Precision GPS approaches, not Non Precision.

lpvapproach

11th Jan 2019, 15:26

UK doesn't have GPS Approaches??? really?

:ugh:

not so you would notice.

I dont have enough have posts to post a link, I suggest one googles:

‘Not our finest hour’ admits CAA over GPS approaches'

underfire

13th Jan 2019, 00:35

LeadSled

13th Jan 2019, 03:34

WOW, back in 2015, the forward thinking FAA thought the airlines would be using GBAS CAT III autoland by 2018!!!!

oh wait, its 2019......

I found this rather humorous ICAO document on the subject. (humorous being the line item corrections and the year 2010)

https://www.icao.int/safety/airnavigation/documents/gnss_cat_ii_iii.pdf

Underfire,
Humour?? Lost on me, and if you are that the time lapse is "funny", this is little more than an illustration of how slowly bureaucracies grind away??
At least we are are now seeing the delayed GPSIII constellation going up.
Tootle pip!!

underfire

13th Jan 2019, 16:26

Probably should have stated sad instead of humorous...sarcastic humour? Put in context with CAT III autolands by 2018....

At least they moved the GBAS to MEL....who knows if it will be used...

Derfred

14th Jan 2019, 14:17

I read somewhere a while ago that the FAA had lost interest in GLS until further notice, without a reason provided.

Essentially this meant that GLS installation in the US would only proceed with private funding.

CAT III GLS approval would presumably improve interest in the technology.

One would think that the absence of sensitive and critical areas would provide an economic benefit to CAT III GLS with improved runway utilisation in low visibility conditions.

underfire

14th Jan 2019, 23:01

Shakeup and reorg in Honeywell land did not help. Seems the CAT III cert program died.

Derfred

15th Jan 2019, 09:52

It’s at least pleasing to see that in Sydney and Melbourne (Aus) the GLS has recently become the “default” approach for aircraft so-equipped... If you want an ILS you have to ask for it, otherwise you will be cleared for a GLS (unless below CAT I of course).

underfire

19th Jan 2019, 23:08

I thought that they moved the GBAS from SYD to MEL...how could it be a 'default' for both?

Derfred

20th Jan 2019, 03:53

No, they didn't move it. They installed a second GBAS in MEL. The GBAS in SYD is still there.

underfire

20th Jan 2019, 11:49

ahhh, okay...thanks

LeadSled

21st Jan 2019, 06:08

ahhh, okay...thanks

As I am certain you are all well aware, the real value of GBAS for suitably equipped aircraft -- IN AUSTRALIA --- is related to Australian "Roools" for alternates, with potentially substantial saving in fuel,carried, due to lower alternate criteria created--- for decades now, this was the driver in interest in GBAS.
In places like UK, GBAS produces no such benefit.
Always follow the money.
Tootle pip!!

underfire

22nd Jan 2019, 01:40

Fear of GPS jamming, especially after Newark, has really kept it from being widely implemented.

In addition, after the whole MLS fiasco, airlines were reluctant to spent any money or time on a new fangled system.

GlobalNav

27th Feb 2019, 15:22