I've lost my licence - should I do and MBA?

[ExPilot]

Hi fellow Pprunes,

Last winter I lost my licence and will get the LOL payoff accordingly. (It being a small world I'll be discreet about details to keep my identity quiet.)

The BIG QUESTION . . . is what do I do now? I'm early forties and last worked as Jet Captain in the UK. In the search for a new direction I've got a place to do an MBA at a good college. It sounds like a good idea (pilots have a lot of transferable skills) but I have to ask where it might lead me jobwise. Being a pilot 'man and boy' I have only wanted to fly aeroplanes for airlines.

I feel like a complete change and want to know where an MBA might lead. I don't want to manage pilots for an airline - shafting the troops isn't my gambit.

Has anyone heard of a pilot who has done an MBA and changed direction?

I could use the LOL money to potter for a few years but life is clearly too short for such tame things.

My Missus likes the idea; I am now home every night without prospect of earlies/lates/reserve lines/west coast jet lag etc.

Comments anyone?

[411A]

How about a small business? You and your wife might make a good team...hard work sometimes (always), but just might make that million...
Been done before. Altho no loss of license at this end, am helping to start a new aircarrier, and running a very profitable small business as well, altho do employ a full time manager to take care of the day to day activities.
And, if you have prior sim training experience...quite a good feeling helping the younger guys achive that all inportant left seat...or keep it.
Good luck to you in whatever direction you take.

[Capt. Crosswind]

It seems about 80% of small business start ups fail in the first five years.
The ex pilots I know who have had least problems have invested in real estate , but that also can be hazardous to your wealth
Residental in particular - commercial seems to have least problems but not if the business cycle is in a downturn.
One chap I know did a real estate sub agents course,got a job with an agent & spent a year getting the feel of the industry
before he invested.
MBA course & conserving your capital seems a safe bet.
Best of luck

[usernothername]

ExPilot, an MBA certainly won't do you any harm but it is an ordeal as you are probably aware. Having been in a similar situation I decided to get on with building a new career and found that my background and operational experience was valuable in itself. Feel free to email me for more detail, there certainly is a life beyond the flightdeck.

[essouira]

I instruct flying and I teach mba. I think you'll get a lot out of the mba but it is v hard work - no harder than the cpl/atpls though ! Keep networking through the course, take advantage of any contacts offered by the college and think/discuss/reflect about the future so that you finalise some plans as you get near the end of the course. Good luck - you'll do well, I'm sure.

[fireflybob]

Firstly, sorry to hear you have lost your licence.

I don't know how much loss of licence money you received but be warned that it goes much more quickly than you think.

There are businesses out there which require minimal start up costs yet have unlimited income potential so don't be put off by the naysayers. Do some thorough investigation first and decide whether or not such a venture is for you or not.

As regards the MBA etc., well yes I'd love to do one myself but there are plenty of broke "academics" around at the moment so it's no guarantee that you will get a job since the job market is already saturated.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[ExPilot]

Thank you for your comments gentleman.

My wife and I thought about starting our own business. A small hotel or B&B was discussed. We think we are too young for that type of thing yet. I still have a lot to give over the next 20 years or so. It's an option anyway.

The MBA is affordabale and would be a good experience. The problem is where would I get a job?

Back in an airline a grounded pilot could be an Ops Director but the UK is a small world . . . I suppose there is the CAA, BAA or some allied companies.

I am keen to hear about any pilot who has done a full time MBA and progressed to a really good job.

BTW I don'y miss the flying (or lifestyle) but do miss my colleagues.

[flufdriver]

I have several colleagues that have retired early from flying for one reason or another and are very successfull in business, as a matter of fact, I am considering doing the same thing.
I suppose an MBA wouldn't hurt, but I believe that the main qualities that give a Pilot an advantage in any enterprise (other then becoming a number in a big corporation) is his training in desiciveness and discipline to make a plan and carry it out.

In my opinion, success in business depends as much on ingenuity, determination and perseverance as anything else.

Good Luck!

[tinyrice]

After 35 years in the airline business, I ejected last year and I'm doing an MBA now. Couple of comments..........
1.Not all MBA programs are created equal. Get into a well known or respected program, because chances are that you'll either be hired by, or work with MBA types who will rate you ( for hiring or financing your business ) on the rigour of the program that you passed.
2.Get into a program in the Geographic area that you intend to work in - Europe, Asia, USA. I'm not real sure if MBA programs are equivalent, and will translate into other parts of the World. I have just recently heard that the MBA program I enrolled in has a problem in the USA because it allows non-degreed, non A level students ( like me!) to enroll and give it a go.
3.Figure out where you want to use this MBA when you get it - in other words, there is life after the airline business - so tailor your concentration to best suit how you think your MBA will complement your new work direction. Especially usefull when working case studies as you can look for those that perhaps will provide a data base for your future reference.


Good luck in your endeavours........................

PS - I've passed three of the nine modules - graduate in 2004.

[lonerider]

Sorry to hear about the loss of licence. I don't know much about MBAs; however wouldn't you be better off testing the water first. Send off a few CVs to companies that your interesting in and see what happens- you might be lucky. If theres nothing about then think about doing the MBA. Good luck!

[richie-rich]

so, u can be issued a new license if u lose your license ? i mean, cant they give u fresh papers?

i am dumb....so bear with me :(

richie-rich

[Brizzo]

If you are getting any kind of a payoff, I would strongly advise you to bank it, and take a few months to think. Alternatively, take a job that will pay the bills (or most of them) pro.tem.

MBA costs money, and at this time the market is as flat as the market for pilots.

There are countless shysters who want to relieve you of your cash and will promise you the best job inb the world - if you just pay a little upfront.

Small business is a minefield.

1) You risk money up front. Most banks want a charge on your home. They are merciless if you fail.
2) Small business means that you pay your own pension, sickness, medical, and life insurance. You do not get paid for holidays. You can hire in holiday help but they will screw you. You will lose sleep. So if you do not at least double what you can get elsewhere, you are not really better off.

Be cautious, and stay cool.

I've been there!

[wonderbusdriver]

sorry, no comment on the MBA, but...

Ever heard of the book "What color is your parachute"?
Do you HAVE to work for money?
Do you want to go to work?
Do you "just" need something to keep your brain going?
Do you want to be with your old colleagues?
Do you have something like a network of colleages that might get you into training?
Would you like to be in training? (probably the closest you can be to other pilots)

Does your wife have a decent job, so you could take care of the kids?
If you don´t have or want kids - just make sure your bills are paid and enjoy life with the one you love - You know you could do it; you did it; so what is there to prove?

Good luck, whatever you do.

[Capt. Crosswind]

ExPilot

Brizzo put it much better than I had in my previous post.
Most people tend to blow large sums of money as they do not understand the compounding power of big numbers of bucks.
Example, if you put a $100,000 in a secure cash management trust @ 7% it will be $200,000 in ten years, $400,000 in 20 years,etc.

A couple of rules given to me by money literate friends
1) Pay off your home loan - cash is king but nothing beats a home owned free & clear.
2) Never use your home as security to fund a business.
3) Rule 3 read again rule 2.

Hope this helps more than it confuses.
Good luck

[Wig Wag]

Correct me if I am wrong:

Stelios at easyJet did an MBA at the London Business School and decided to set up an airline based on the low cost model of Southwest.

Robert Wright was a Trident FO with BA and left to do an MBA at Cranfield. He set up Connectair and sold it to Air Europe in 1989 for several million pounds.

I read recently that the boss of Aer Lingus is a pilot who recently completed an MBA at Harvard - short on details here.

MBA's abound but not with exerienced airline pilots who would understand both ends of the business.

[N380UA]

Hi ExPilot

I’m a former (never really ex) pilot too. I have found that aviation, regardless if active flying or not is not a job but a life-philosophy.
Sooner or later you won’t be able to live without the fresh smell of jet A in the morning. I therefore recommend that you stick around with aviation and flight related tasks. I know it’s not quite flying but its better than producing screws (no offence).
As for the MBA, I’m currently doing mine at the Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh School of Business as a distance learning course. http://www.ebs.hw.ac.uk/
That way you can stay focused on your work, have an income and still continue your education. I see this as an opportunity to support our flying colleges as a, and I hate this term, bean counter, with actual knowledge and insight to that business that a bean counter by nature never will gain.
If you need any more info I’d be glad to help out if I can.
Cheers.

[Anti Skid On]

Try a search on Google for MBA's (and rankings) - there are a variety of options available. Those that get the highest rankings seem to be the Harvards, London School of Economics, etc. These appear to be largely in relation to the earning capacity that one has when you have the right letters (as opposed to a East London Poly MBA - apologies, no offence meant to east enders). I suppose those getting the best MBA's end up working for top firms in the oil business, media and IT.

The funny thing with MBA's is the almost mandatory GMAT entrance test, which seems a bit of a money making scam. As a former uni lecturer who has done an MA and considered doing an MBA, I feel Uni's are using these as a cash cow, and that everyone who gets one can't be a star at general management.

[iankain]

I'm a principal research fellow at a major UK business school. I often teach on a their MBA course. A couple of years ago I think doing an MBA would have been a good route for most people in your position. Now, I am not too sure. There are a lot of people out there now with MBA's from top Universities and they are finding it difficult to find a job. This years graduates will find it even more difficult. My advice is simple.

*Pay off all of your debt and bank the remainder you money.
*Forget about MBAs at least until the economy picks up - 2005 at the earliest.
*Think of ways in which you could use the skills that you have, not just for economic benefit, but to the benefit of others.
*Take life easy.....

[Phil Jones]

I have worked in the recruitment industry for 8 years, I also have an MBA. I think you need to look for a course which is closely linked to a particular employer or group of employers. If you like the idea of working for one of those businesses then approach them first, tell them that you are keen to self sponsor your MBA and request a meeting to discuss their feelings on the matter, you never know you might get a conditional job offer, that way you can embark on the study programme safe in the knowledge that you will have a job at the end of it. My experience tells me that the MBA supports the experience you have but it can never be a replacement for experience in the eyes of the employer. Several of my collegues who were over 35 years old did well on the MBA programme which I studied but because they did not have specific experience relevant to the jobs they were applying for they struggled. As a recruiter I have found many companies are nervous of people in this position. What I can tell you is that you will enjoy the study programme, it is pretty hard but not as bad as people will have you believe, you will also learn some very useful skills which will be of practical use to you in the business world.

Good Luck!