FINALLY :D

[tobster911]

So, It's been a VERY long time since I was last on here. Those of you who recall me, will know that I have been asking numerous questions about PPL training and going commercial etc etc. Well, the time has finally come. I have taken out a loan and will be completing my PPL (part-time) over the coming months.

So, this leads me to a few questions:
1) Anybody had any experience with Anglian Flight Centres at Earls colne airfield?
2) Robin HR200 - a good aircraft?
3) If not AFC, anybody had experience at Clacton?

Thank you

T

[thing]

First of all welcome to the world of poverty that is the lot of the PPL. I haven't any experience of either of those two places but if you have taken a loan out and have the readies to splash out may I advise that you go at it with gusto. The more you fly the quicker you learn.

No doubt others will be along with the polar opposite but being as I got here first...:)

[Martin_123]

what made you think that a loan for a PPL is a good idea? Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing, just generally want to understand your mindset and decision making process.. do you think you will be better off in a year and will be able to pay for your hour building + interest + loan without any worries?

I can see that last year you thought that you will have the money by February this year, yet it didn't happen, why was that?

Have you thought about consequences of not being able to repay the debt and damaging your credit history?

[tobster911]

@thing - Absolutely, I'll be flying and learning on every day off I have - currently 4 in every 14...

@Martin_123 - The loan wasn't just for the PPL, but it was something I was getting to pay off my car finance (and costs the same as I'm paying monthly at the moment anyway). It is quite a lengthy loan, but I now have a new job which will, on some months, be able to pay me quadruple (at least) what I was earning previously, and other months where it's just double, though I now have a few more expenses.

Last year (in February), I started my first proper job, and calculated that if I saved every single penny, I would be able to get my PPL. Unfortunately, I was unable to save.

I have indeed thought about the consequences, and as with anything anyone does, I may well regret it. However, I believe that IF it turns out to be a mistake, I do have family and friends that will help me pay it off until I get back on my feet, and I am also keeping about £1k of the loan free to use to pay off the loan for a few months if it comes to it, as a kind of contingency plan.

I think it's better to do these things when you're young, as I don't have my own family or house to worry about, so in the grand scheme of things, it is better to make the mistake now than in 10 years when I have dependents etc, though I fully see where you're coming from.

Thank you

[Sir George Cayley]

Do not under any circumstance give a lot of your money up front for a reduced rate. History on here is littered with tales of woe. And that's general advice with no implications on any organisations you may have mentioned.

Robin HR100 - flew one once. Thats it, just the once.

Try to fly as often as possible. I took too long due finances and so spent time de-rustyfying at the start of each lesson.

Apart from that - enjoy.

SGC

[Piper.Classique]

Go for it, Tobster. I did my ppl at a time when my full time job paid £25 per week and an hour in the cheapest possible aircraft cost £28.
I had two jobs.....
I sometimes had to renew by test in the next ten years, but I always managed to keep flying.
That was in 1981, and if I had listened to the doom and gloom merchants I would have had a pretty boring life. I paid no attention to them, worked at my flying, PPL all done in 39 hours and over two years, including the test, plus an hour after to get the then legal minimum.

I now own an aircraft, and right now am flying my socks off. Power, gliders, and balloons. It's supposed to be fun!

[kaitakbowler]

Er guys&girls, give the OP a break, 6 replies and not one addresses his questions.

Oh B**/+*s thats 7 then, sorry, but interested in the answer myself.

PM

[Crash one]

Nice one tobster, if you can afford the repayments what's the problem? I did similar after retiring just for the fun flying, far to old and decrepit for commercials, bought an aircraft and like Piper Classique fly the socks off.
Don't know a thing about your questions sorry, go taildragger once you can, you won't regret that either. Good luck.

[thing]

Er guys&girls, give the OP a break, 6 replies and not one addresses his questions.

If I may quote Wander00 who posts on a different part of this forum and summed up Pprune beautifully

As an aside, there is no such thing a "quick question" on Prune. One could ask what time of day it is, and shortly have six pages of posts, seeking to define "day", "time" etc, indeed even the existence of either, and several posts asking how to post a picture. Part of the charm of the site really.

[4Screwaircrew]

No experience of the Robin or AFC, however thought Clacton was good value when I trained there (tail wheel conversion).

[tobster911]

Thank you for all this. Loving the quote about the simplicity of PPRuNe :p

but seriously, HR200? Flown once before, and it was a nice handling aircraft, but some of the instruments were, how do you say?... faulty...

[shortstripper]

I did a renewal a couple of years ago at AFC Earles Colne flying their Robin 200.

It's a good professional set up and the aircraft are good. Outside controlled airspace and I think it's either their airfield or they lease it. There's no lengthy taxiing to worry about and the instructors are all very friendly (though I only flew with one).

The Robin HR200 is a nice aeroplane IMHO, with a stick rather than a yoke. I prefer that but it doesn't really matter.

Where are you actually from?

SS

PS - I forgot to add that I finished my PPL at Clacton in the late 80's flying their Supercubs. It was a good flying school and probably still is, but it's a long time ago so my experiences my be outdated. And being a long TIME ago I have to wonder if time is relevant? Does time exist? If time is split between day and night, and as I only fly in daylight hours, are the years since I flew there halved? .... Hmmmm? ;)

[tobster911]

It looks a good place. Going in tomorrow at 3 to have my first flight with them. I flew an HR200 in France nearly 4 years ago for a couple of hours, and loved its handling. Only problem with it was virtually none of the instruments were, how you say... operational? :p

I am from the South Lakes (South Cumbria), but have moved down to Colchester in Essex due to a career move and life change, and am loving the weather :)

Your last sentence has got me questioning physics... No one ever gets me to question physics := hahaha

[DBisDogOne]

T

No experience of AFC but landed at E/C a couple of times, nice place (does it still have a dip in the runway??)

Robin HR200 - done about 25hrs in the last few years in them. A nice aircraft, some criticise it for being a bit 'Twitchy' but this might be because they are pretty light. I don't find that myself despite my experience being largely in 152/172/PA28's. Has a stick not a yoke (I like) and a bubble canopy means better vis than most (like a glider if you've any experience in them). Overall, I like them alot.

Clacton Aero Club is great IMO, didn't do my PPL there but I've been going there for years to do various things from IMC and tailwheel to renewals despite the fact I live counties away! Was last there at the end of last year to renew my SEP & fly the Supercub and it hasn't changed, it's a proper flying club where prices are cheaper than most and the grass strip is basic and short (500m) but you will learn lots about proper flying (watch out for the footpath crossing the runway). Plus being a small strip you don't waste a bunch of time waiting for ATC or other traffic faffing about & circuit work becomes alot easier because of this.

OK, Clacton itself is a dump but hey, over the top it looks fine!!

[tobster911]

Not sure on the dip in the runway, but will tell you after my flight tomorrow. I have had a fair bit of gliding experience, so looking forward to tomorrow's flight :)

I like a stick controlled aircraft, but also like the yoke, so will be interesting to see which I end up preferring after some proper flying time.

I may go to Clacton at some point, but Earls Colne is a nicer place... you're right, Clacton is a bit of a dump indeed. Only lived in the South East for two months, and am already aware :p

[mary meagher]

Hey Tobster, pleased to see you have started at the right end of the spectrum by flying GLIDERS! That's the basics out of the way then, no need ever to worry about the engine going silent! (glide ratio of power plane with no engine? about 12 to one?)

I hope you have a medical certificate of some sort before spending a lot of money on power flying/

And the advice given above to never never pay large sums up front is spot on.
Lots of times flying schools go bust and vanish, with your money.

Learning to fly on the Robin a good idea. And also a good idea to fly the taildragger at Clacton. BOTH ARE GLIDER TUG PLANES IN GENERAL USE.

which may give you ideas.....you get no money for flying the tug, but boy can you build up the hours! Booker and Bidford are all aerotow. And I think Aboyne in Scotland, and possibly Black Mountains gliding club in Wales. Recommend visiting all these places.

Where did you do your gliding? and how far did you get? Silver C used to knock a lot of hours off the PPL requirement....

Let us know how you get on! and visit us at Shenington some day.

Mary

[thing]

Whereabouts in Scotland is Shenington? Might drop in one day.

[tobster911]

thing - Shenington is in Oxford, I believe.

Mary Meagher - Indeed, I will never pay for the whole course up front. At AFC, they give you your exams free of charge if you deposit £1000. Still a lot of money, but at the rate I'm hoping to be flying, the money shouldn't be in their bank for more than 2 weeks :)

Gliding wise, unfortunately, I was only able to get solo, and couldn't progress much further. The airfield (Walney, Barrow-In-Furness, NW England) was a good hour's drive away, and the weather there was often very different to where I lived (usually much worse). I often went to the airfield (which was only operational at weekends, if an instructor decided to turn up), to find it was howling wind and peeing it down with rain, or the gliders weren't available, or something.

Didn't get to go last year at all as we didn't have a tug aircraft, and as I worked on Saturdays, it was very hit and miss whether Sunday would be possible... As a result, I didn't get as much gliding done as I would have liked.

I will certainly do my tailwheel conversion, and hopefully find a local club I can do some tugging at... Do you know if there are minimum requirements to be a tug pilot?

Thank you

Toby

[thing]

thing - Shenington is in Oxford, I believe.

Yes, brain fade on my part! I think it's because I associate Mary with those flying vids she posts up flying the Jodel around Scottish lochs and what have you.

[Buttino]

75 hour PPL here who trained at Earls Colne from November 2012 to April 2014 on the Robin's.

Earls Colne - it's a good choice of airfield, they've got a lighted hard runway and a grass one so are open pretty much all year round. I also gained my night rating there in December last year.

Robins - I did all my training on a split between ECAC, ECAF & ECAP, they see some heavy usage but they're pretty solid aircraft with great visibility.

Feel free to PM with any questions.

[tobster911]

Thank you Buttino. How many hours did you pass in? I may take you up on the offer of PMing at some point. Only 2 hours before my flight :D, and the METAR looks pretty good:

25013KT CAVOK 21/07 NOSIG :)

[Buttino]

You'll be fine today, yesterday was a bit bumpy. I'm flying tomorrow night from there after hours in ECAF.

I passed in 54 hours aged 41 with a 3 month break late 2013 due to finances.

[mary meagher]

Yes indeed, Barrow in Furness...weather can be unkind.

But good folks, all the same. It will do you no harm to find a gliding club near where you live and check it out....weather in the midlands is best, and Shenington is in the middle of the midlands! 7 nautical miles NW of Banbury. though the fog has been known to creep up from the valley now and then. But we do have a ridge that works well in a NW wind, and you can fly cross country without too much airspace problem.
Have a look at our website, the flying blogs tell what we've been up to lately.

This coming weekend we have 60 junior pilots visiting from all over the UK...juniors include ages 25 and a few as young as 14 now the rules have changed. Should be a lively weekend.

To find a gliding club nearest to where you live, check out the BGA (British Gliding Association) website.

[tobster911]

Thank you everyone.

Awesome flight. Apparently, I picked it up quite quickly after being rusty at the beginning. It was quite turbulent. I was in Alpha Foxtrot. Nice plane, if a tad noisy.

Next session is next Wednesday, bright and early. And yep, I will find a local gliding club and see what's happening there :)

[Buttino]

Wormingford is the closest gliding school to Colchester, I went there last year for a day. I was somewhat annoyed to see two members having a full blow stand up argument, wasn't too sure what it was about but it didn't leave a good impression. Didn't bother going there again.

[thing]

I was somewhat annoyed to see two members having a full blow stand up argument

Sadly not an unusual sight at gliding clubs. It was the main reason I left my last one. Not that I ever got involved in any arguments, I just got sick of the fragile egos around the place.

[mary meagher]

Sorry you walked into a family fight at wormingford, Buttino! and Thing, you always have a moan about gliding clubs....they are all different, my dears. But the difference between a gliding club and a power flying organisation is that we do get to know each other very well and make friends (and enemies too, just like your family!).....

Flying power you don't have to spend any time at all interacting with other people, just do your own ....thing! (oops, sorry! couldn't resist!)

[shortstripper]

I love gliding but fall into a very typical glider demographic ... Young / old pilots.

I had time to fly gliders when I was younger and hope to fly them again when (if) I retire or semi retire. In the meantime it's just not possible to give up a day at a time regularly enough to make it work. It's common at many gliding clubs to find that the vast majority of the membership are made up of young and old, with not so many in middle age. Those that are middle aged, tend to be in well paid jobs with regular weekends off.

Maybe times have changed? But that's how I remember it when I was gliding. Don't let that put you off though as gliding is the purist form of flight IMHO and one I'd recommend to anyone.

SS

[Crash one]

Sorry you walked into a family fight at wormingford, Buttino! and Thing, you always have a moan about gliding clubs....they are all different, my dears. But the difference between a gliding club and a power flying organisation is that we do get to know each other very well and make friends (and enemies too, just like your family!).....

Flying power you don't have to spend any time at all interacting with other people, just do your own ....thing! (oops, sorry! couldn't resist!)

At many airfields, especially grass farm strips, an impromptu fly in Will occur and everyone gets to have a good chat, I am convinced that microlight pilots can smell a barbecue from 5000 feet, often a good day is had by all, complete strangers included.
I too have experienced the bloated egos & opinionated views by glider pilots who think the rest of us can't see where we are going.
I have also witnessed a C172 cruising gaily up the winch line just as I was about to connect the wire. There are faults on both sides, I just wish we could all get on together.

[thing]

and Thing, you always have a moan about gliding:confused: No I don't, gliding in general is a great sport. How many times have I favoured the view that PPL studes should solo on a glider first? I'm simply stating a fact that as you say, people tend to turn up and fly then go home at powered clubs whereas at gliding clubs you are thrown together all day with all sorts of people. I know you've never met me but I can assure you that I can spot an argument brewing from 100 paces and prefer to walk away.

I just got fed up with feeling embarassed for visitors on trial flights etc when yet another 'You don't tow the cables out like that' 'Yes I do I've been here 452 years and that's the way we do it' spat brews up and sadly it's usually the older members who do it. Then there's always the guy/gal who like the sound of their own voice and shouts criticism across an airfield at someone to let people know that they are important. I'm sure not all clubs are like that but I've been a member of four in different parts of the country and that's been my experience.

I love gliding, 95% of the people involved are great but you have to interact with the numpties, who tend to be the loudest and most opiniated. I used to be able to ignore them but I'm too old and too fed up with folk who do their damndest to spoil what should be an enjoyable and relaxed day out for people; so I just don't put myself in that situation anymore. In a powered club you just turn up and fly; land, fill out the tech log and go home if you want to, or you can interact around the t bar and swap stories. Which is often as good if not better than actually aviating sometimes.

There are faults on both sides, I just wish we could all get on together. I think that people do generally. There will always be an 'us and them' camp though which is puerile nonsense and does this great sport of aviation that we belong to no favours at all.

But the difference between a gliding club and a power flying organisation is that we do get to know each other very well and make friends Incredible though it may seem, that can happen at a powered club as well...

[davydine]

Reading this thread is a bit spooky, having grown up in the south lakes myself and moved to Essex. I have spent many happy hours gliding from Wormingford (but not recently so can't comment about members having an argument), I have also flown a Capstan at Walney a couple of times.

If you do fly from Earls Colne, try not to land at Wormingford by mistake, wouldn't be the first time!

I can't comment on either of the flying clubs, but both left me with a good impression when I popped in to enquire about flying lessons. I would be interested to know how you get on as these are the two clubs I would be most likely to use if I ever get round to flying lessons...

David

[squidie]

I can answer number 2. HR200s are good enough for PPL/LAPL training, they’re light on the controls and easy to fly, they aren’t particularly stable and don’t have a good tech reputation but I’d happily fly another, I passed my PPL in one of these. Although I still miss the rounded glass canopy and those views :)

Also if you can afford to live and afford to fly/train then IMO that’s a good position.

[foxmoth]

A nice aircraft, some criticise it for being a bit 'Twitchy' but this might be because they are pretty light.

they aren’t particularly stable

IMHO both these show how many have got used to "flying" rice pudding aircraft! The Robin is actually very nice to fly and certainly not unstable, the aircraft I would suggest that it is being compared to are Pipers and Cessnas that are designed to take you from A-B with minimum interference from the pilot, to me that is not what flying is about!

[tobster911]

Davydine, where abouts in Essex are you? I might pop to wormingford for some gliding at some point. My flight from Earls Colne on Wednesday was very enjoyable, and it felt fantastic to be back in the air after such a large break.


Squidy, I too found that it was a little twitchy, but once I got used to it, it was easy enough to fly. Just having some difficulty keeping it trimmed correctly, and flying with my left hand. A very strange sensation.


foxmoth, possibly very true, but with my limited experience, I cannot comment :p