VE Day and TfL jobsworth: help?

[John Eacott]

I hope someone here may be able to point me in the right direction to help my 92 year old ex RAF/RAAF father get around the intransigence of Transport for London jobsworths? He will be going to London later this month for the VE Day celebrations and is attempting to get a Veterans Oyster photocard for his travel whilst in London.

Unfortunately he has encountered a degree of resistance from Transport for London when attempting to sort this out on the phone, including "you're not entitled, it won't reach you in time, it's not worth the effort, we must send it snail mail", etc etc. He receives a UK pension and meets all the requirement criteria. (FWIW, night fighter pilot, North Africa Beaufighter pilot, POW escaped twice, many tales you couldn't believe and an Order of Australia Medal)

I'm looking for someone to contact to cut through the TfL bull**** and get this sorted: can anyone help please?

[Courtney Mil]

Start by sending the whole story to the Daily Mail. :ok:

[Archimedes]

1. Ask Boris Johnson via his Twitter account... He is a tad busy campaigning, but it might produce results. He might even enjoy the publicity (if Purdah permits it), or alternatively set one of his minions on the task.

2. As CM says - contact the Sun, Daily Mail & Daily Telegraph One will almost certainly pick up the story, use the word 'fury' (in capitals) and TfL will at least be compelled to get off their backsides to do something about it. ISTR that there was a similar outbreak of intransigent 'and what makes you think that you deserve some extra consideration, then?' from them around the time of another significant anniversary which concluded with white flags being waved from TfL HQ after the press went for them with all the finesse of a barely house-trained honey badger.

Indeed, given that the Mail seems only to source its military stories from here, Arrse and various other websites (Proper research? Wassat?), someone may be on it already...

[email protected] - (will take stories)

The Sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/article296174.ece) (link on page)

About us - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/) (gives link to editorial team and journalists, NB this one:

Ben Farmer - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/ben-farmer/) (defence correspondent; Twitter account given on page)

Good luck.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Suggest he contacts the Luftwaffe and tells them they can have a free run this time :E

[John Eacott]

Fox3, love it!

Thanks for all the links, and the Twitter sent already to Boris; I knew you chaps would have the answers. I confess I was thinking along the lines of someone able to email and receive the application to save a few weeks, but if the media pick up on it instead then who am I to say no?

Dad would be thrilled to know of your support, he's having a very rough time after Mum's death last November and VE Day was very significant as that was when they met. She went to a VE Day party with an RN Petty Officer and came home with a RAF pilot, who was promptly b0llocked by her RAF LAC father for bringing her home late. Some things never change ;)

[Lynxman]

To receive a TfL Veterans Oyster Card he must be in receipt of payments under the War Pension Scheme for injuries sustained during service. Simply being an ex serviceman in receipt of a military pension is not enough to qualify. Is your father in receipt of a War Pension for injury as well as his service pension?

[Bill4a]

It strikes me that it is either a veterans card or its a war pensioners card! They cant surely have it both ways! I do hope you get it sorted out and let us all know?


:ugh:

[Lynxman]

Eligibility is here:

Veterans Oyster photocard - Transport for London (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/adult-discounts-and-concessions/veterans-oyster-photocard)

[Danny42C]

John,

RAF Association may be able to exert some pressure (they have Australian branches, I believe), as there may well be other old RAF veterans coming this year who may meet the same difficulty.

Or possibly the Australian High Commisson in London (Defence Attache).

Both available on "Google".

Just stabs in the dark. Good luck,

Danny42C.

[John Eacott]

Gents,

Again, thanks for the responses. Dad fully qualifies as he meets all the criteria required by TfL, including the War Pension for injury.

I think that the jobsworth (initially) implying that he wouldn't qualify was what got his goat, and the conversation on the phone at his expense from Australia seems to have remained on those lines of someone trying to avoid being helpful :(

[Stupidbutsaveable]

Hi John
Suggest you call them, speak to a supervisor and get his name. If still encountering a bad attitude after demonstrating your father qualifies, then let him know that you will not be letting it drop out of principle and expect to read his name in the Daily Mail.
Hopefully that would result in a attitude adjustment.
If they hide behind the cost of delivery; I'll happily receive at my UK address and get it to you.

[P6 Driver]

After all the slagging off that "journalists" get on these forum pages, the irony isn't lost on me that all of a sudden, they might actually be deemed useful!

When it suits, eh?

[Danny42C]

John,

As your Dad is 92, and may not have been in London for some time ('45 ?), and he was a bit younger then, I hope he will be accompanied when he attempts the London buses.

Am a year older, have given up my bus pass a while ago as I can barely crawl after a bus, never mind run for it !

D.

[Top Bunk Tester]

Mine arrived very quickly, within two weeks of applying. Make sure you get the app in ASAP, then start making waves. It will go one of two ways, instant action or filed under B for Bin.

[ian16th]

Or possibly the Australian High Commisson in London (Defence Attache).

Just to add, that the reverse of this might also be worth a try, that is the Air Adviser at the British High Commission in Canberra.

(Embassies have Attache's, High Commissions have Adviser's):ok:

[Old-Duffer]

I know it's not really the best way - BUT - if it were my Dad. I'd stump up the money to give him the best day out I possibly could.

Now is not the time to agonise over whose rules are right, wrong or plain daft. Give the man something to hold dear for his remaining days and s0d the expense.

Old Duffer

[Wander00]

Just a thought, a RAFA branch could probably pitch up with someone to help him round London

[John Eacott]

Dad will be accompanied by one of his grandsons (my nephew) for the trip to and from the UK, and they will look after each other since the youngster has a lower leg prosthesis! He will be in London for a few weeks, and the Oyster card is something that will just help whilst he gets around. If we can't get one in time then we'll obviously pay, I wouldn't see it any other way.

The response from those willing to help circumvent the narrow minded attitude of the office at TfL is humbling, and I thank those who have been in touch. Yes, we should have addressed this earlier but free travel in London is not something we were aware of from Australia and the refusal to employ modern email by the TfL office will build in delays that guarantee no card by Dad's arrival in UK. Even those from PPRuNe who are helping must have the required forms sent by post within London, no pick up, no email, just jobsworth mentality at its finest.

Thanks again :ok:

[jayteeto]

I'm sure you will sort him out regardless, however it's the principle. Jobsworth people who have no idea of what is involved here. Instead of looking for reasons why he isn't eligible, they should be looking for ways to get around criteria; when they put the phone down, it should be thinking 'Yes! I really helped a veteran out there'.
Hint: In the USA (whilst not perfect), people go out of their way to find discounts for serving and veteran personnel.

Go to the Daily Mail or Sun, using the words 'outraged and angry', they will hijack your story a little and Boris will probably get involved as well. Its important to all serving and veteran personnel that these London Transport PUBLIC SERVANTS get to know their real place in life.

Question: Why have a ticket available and make it difficult to obtain???????

[Wander00]

JTT - In 1970 when starting a 10 year local government career (at Cambridge City Council, with wonderful Jean Barker, now Baroness Trumpington as Mayor), I wondered if I had made the wrong choice when the guy showing me round said "And don't give your name on the phone then they won't know who to come back to", advice I studiously avoided through 10 years with3 different authorities. Unfortunately the public service is stuffed with jobsworths who don't give their name. On the other hand there are many very, very good people in the public sector. Just a huge pain when you come up against the former sort.

[November4]

Even those from PPRuNe who are helping must have the required forms sent by post within London, no pick up, no email, just jobsworth mentality at its finest.
:

I applied for mine and had it returned to me by post and I don't live within London.

[INT_QRU]

I am sure one of the local ATC squadrons would be very happy to get involved helping the gentleman around. If you need any contact details please PM me

[John Eacott]

The story so far.

ACW418 has been a tower of strength and done wonders dealing with TfL, having them post an application form to him which he scanned and emailed to us on Friday. Having a name as signing for TfL on the form gave him someone to call and agree to receiving a scan of a completed application, but it still had to be sent to TfL by post!

So we're now waiting for due process, but some of the anomalies are such that you just have to laugh, or you'd cry.

No, they won't accept emails and don't have an email address. But on Saturday Dad received an email from TfL to advise that his request the previous Sunday had been processed and an application would be posted to Australia. Good job we didn't wait for the original promise of being sent immediately!

The form is one page, and only requests name, phone number, date of birth and (wait for it...) email address! All of which could be given over the phone :ugh:Along with emailing a photo and the War Pension letter, of course.

Again, the help from ACW418 is amazing, to the extent that he has asked for the Oyster card to be sent to him and he will meet Dad on arrival at Heathrow.

There are some very nice people on PPRuNe :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Are you risking having the card sent to Oz or will it be better to pick it up in London? The RAF Club would surely accept as a post restante.

On using the card, while it works on the tube try and use the buses, better view, less hassle. Travel for your nephew could be a tad expensive unless he has his own Oyster Card. You can no longer pay on the buses.

[Wander00]

PN - can you enlighten me - so how do I pay on a bus =- indeed how does anyone visiting London pay on a bus?

[CoffmanStarter]

Wander00 ...

It's either Oyster or a Bank Debit Card that is able to transact 'contactless' Payments or you buy a pre-paid Bus Pass/Travel Card :ok:

[Wander00]

"Welcome to London, where we make travel as difficult as possible." rant over

[Pontius Navigator]

Wander, you buy a bus ticket at a tube station - go figure. You used to be able to buy a ticket at the machine by the bus stops at the RAF Club, now you have to walk the length of Piccadilly to Green Park.

Of course pensioners don't need Oyster cards or tickets to use the buses provided you have a bus pass (from age 60). ot sure is a European bus pass would cut it.

On travelling with a bus pass I can say it is brilliant. No longer do you have to wait for your bus and pay one exorbitant fare. You can jump on any bus going in your general direction, jump off before it leaves your route and pop on the next one going the right way.

[ian16th]

"Welcome to London, where we make travel as difficult as possible."

Not new.

Over 30 years ago I got onto a bus in Birmingham, and was reprimanded for not having the correct fare.

I pointed out it was my 1st time on a B'ham bus and that I didn't have a clue what the fare would be. This wasn't acceptable logic! :ugh:

[Wander00]

I'll have to get a bus pass then - presumably I can use my son's London address. As to busses here - the French have sold the problem - other than school busses there is one a day if you are lucky!

[Pontius Navigator]

Wander I don't know if that will work. Certainly for my Oyster Card I sent a photo, but for my bus pass I had to present myself at the council offices with proof of entitlement and they took my photo and printed the card.

[Wander00]

I am (easily) confused - thought it was an Oyster card I bought over the counter at the station with a £5 (ISTR) deposit, but no photo. I will have to investigate further.

[Out Of Trim]

Hello John,

I really hope you Father's VE London visit goes well!

I'm sure there are many here who would love to hear of some of his exploits and experiences as a Night Fighter pilot.. I hope that his memories are being recorded. He fought for our freedom and we will not forget him! :ok:

[ACW418]

W00,

All you have to do is buy a TfL Oyster Card with some credit on it and it works on all forms of transport in London, Underground, Buses and some Overground. Google it!

However, I am not sure where you can buy an Oyster Card as TfL have closed most of their ticket offices. Again Google it.

ACW

[Wander00]

ACW - Brilliant - one could not make it up!

[Army Mover]

I got my Oyster card from an automat machine thingy at the underground train station.

[ACW418]

W00,

I think it's called shooting the messenger. Perhaps living with the cheese eaters has this effect.

ACW

[Pontius Navigator]

W00, my Oyster Card is a veteran's card; it is free if you have an attributable pension.

[DGAC]

Another gem. If you wear hearing aids, you are entitled to a "Disabled Railcard", which gives greater discounts than a "Seniors Railcard", allows another adult to travel with you at the discounted fare without their needing a Railcard, and once presented to a Tfl ticket office (underground), allows your Oyster card to be adjusted to give discounted fares on the Tube and London buses.

[Davef68]

You CAN buy a regular Oyster card online (and it's sent to you from somewhere in Aberdeenshire!) with credit already on it.

Either a visitor Oyster (Prepaid but you can top it up) or a regular Oyster

Buses went cashless because 90% of journeys were cashless, and it removed a security risk (and they wouldn't take Scottish money as it screwed up their autocounting machines!)

[spekesoftly]

I'll have to get a bus pass then - presumably I can use my son's London address

Sorry but I don't think that'll work. The equivalent of a senior bus pass for London residents is a Freedom Pass, and for eligibility you would need to prove that London is your principal place of residence with a current council tax bill or TV licence etc, in your name.

Older persons Freedom Pass | Freedom pass - London Council (http://www.freedompass.org/older-persons-freedom-pass)

[Wander00]

Mrs W always says I am a non-person, now it has been proved. Oh, well, back to the Ovaltine

[John Eacott]

Update Tuesday morning Australian EST.

ACW418 finally had confirmation on Monday that the application has been received by TfL and now with 'another department' for checking. It was posted by him on Saturday 10 days ago, 1st Class Recorded Delivery, since although they would accept a scan of the application from Dad via email, it still had to be posted :ugh:

Dad leaves tonight and arrives on Wednesday morning at Heathrow. It looks as if the jobsworths have won, but should the Veteran's Oyster arrive whilst Dad is in the UK then ACW418 has said that he will get it to him.

It goes without saying that we are indebted to ACW for help in this saga; I think he has seen it as a challenge :ok:

[Shack37]

John, I hope it all gels nicely for your dad´s arrival and a smooth stay while he is in the UK. May he enjoy it in spite of the jobsworths.

[Danny42C]

John,

If this goes pear-shaped, it's a flaming scandal ! If it turns out to be the case, will someone with the know-how please get onto the "Mail" and get them to go after Tfl with hobnail boots ?

As one of your Dad's contemporaries, all the best to him, hope he enjoys the trip and gets home safe. :ok:

Danny.

[Wander00]

Comments by Danny and Shack echoed.

[ACW418]

He finally got it!

Walter And His Veterans Oyster Card Photo by acw418 | Photobucket (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/acw418/media/IMG_6743.jpg.html)

ACW

[Danny42C]

Good Show ! :ok: Thanks, ACW.

Danny.

[Wander00]

Well done, ACW - nil carboraundum

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Some relief; I do wish him enjoyable use of it!

Well done, ACW :ok:

[John Eacott]

ACW has made Dad's day, and we both thank him for his selfless efforts.

PPRuNe to the rescue :ok: