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Halaban
10th Apr 2015, 21:41
Dear All, I have a question that I would like to get your opinion on.
I fly as LI A-320,and SFI on simulator,seldom but it was, pilot under supervision by mistake moved Flaps Lever from position 1 to 2 during acceleration or vice versa during deceleration.By Airbus industry a lot of advise such:Flight Operations Briefing Notes Human Performance Managing Interruptions and Distractions.
My question indeed simple,may be somebody heard about hand(palm) position on Flaps Lever,in my opinion during acceleration palm should be under Lever,and correspondingly during deceleration over Lever.
Unfortunately I've never seen official explanation such procedures,by Airbus World site also.
Your opinion is highly appreciated and considred!!!

Goldenrivett
11th Apr 2015, 08:05
Hi Halaban,
during acceleration palm should be under Lever,and correspondingly during deceleration over Lever.
I have only seen that procedure written in one company's OPS Manual.

I find it strange that with Thrust Levers, Speed Brakes, Control Column (side stick) all needed to be moved forward to accelerate, why anybody would pull the flaps lever in the opposite direction whilst accelerating.

I think that if someone gets confused as to which way to move the flaps lever in the first place, then they would rotate their wrist to the recommended position and still move the flaps lever incorrectly.

The big advantage of the procedure is that it gives the PF a chance to observe the intended movement.

Halaban
11th Apr 2015, 09:32
Thank's for your time Goldenrivet.
I tried to investigate the reason of mistake,one of pilot took a hobbit from previous type on which it's need to push Push Lever Flaps with simultaneous
motion in order to retract or extend F/S surface.
Another one had a problem with a lock sys.(mechanism) during hi workload and havy whight a/c,when time is limit to retract the flaps.And bustle made a mistake together with problem of lock sys Flap's Lever.
When we have our general procedures for retract or extend F/S,I mean palm position describe as above the mistake is minimum.
But the official explanation is absent,may be because it' doesn't matter.By experience the mistake for Captain is absent(May be due to right hand position),of course it's supposition.
Your opinion is highly appreciated and considred!!!

de facto
11th Apr 2015, 17:52
My question indeed simple,may be somebody heard about hand(palm) position on Flaps Lever,in my opinion during acceleration palm should be under Lever,and correspondingly during deceleration over Lever.

Funny, i do exactly the opposit by habit...to retract ,palm over,and to extend palm under..:8

C_Star
12th Apr 2015, 11:54
I think EasyJet has (or at least had) it written in their OM's... I tried it a few times and found it awkward - I discovered I normally grab the lever from the side (never paid attention before)

In my opinion this kind of error, while possible, is statistically insignificant (I think I've seen in once over 10+ years of flying) and potential consequences not very severe (an overspeed inspection at worst, which happens anyway from time to time due to multitude of reasons).

Adding yet another minutae to the SOP's is an overkill to me - we have to deal with enough crap on daily basis already... :E

vilas
12th Apr 2015, 12:08
Palm over or under makes no difference as long as you move in the right direction and that should become natural over a period of time. But if you are confused then nothing will help unless you should look at the lever before making a selection.

Goldenrivett
12th Apr 2015, 13:00
Hi vilas,
you should look at the lever before making a selection

I agree. If this crew had looked at the lever before moving it, he may have noticed it was the parking brake and not the flap lever. Doh!

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Airbus%20A319-131,%20G-DBCI%2009-07.pdf

Halaban
12th Apr 2015, 16:35
I am very grateful gentleman!!!

vilas
13th Apr 2015, 06:22
Goldenrivett
The FBW characteristic is such that the pilot makes the changes through some computer. So it needs to be confirmed that the respective computer has received the demand. For instance changes on FCU need to be checked on FMA to ensure FMGC has received it. Same with changes to thrust lever because thrust levers are also mode/phase selectors. Movement of flap lever needs to be checked on the slat flap indicator by calling the number to ensure that SFCC has received the demand, movement of landing gear lever by checking the red lights that the LGCIU has got it. Similarly Parking brake selection is checked on the pressure gauge to ensure BSCU has done it. That is why I am not a fan of silently checking things. When you call out you force the other pilot to cross check. Correct operation need not be monitored because ECAM does it for you and if there is a problem it will trigger ECAM alert.