Dubai "Follow the greens"

[Emma Royds]

Can someone perhaps enlighten me as to how the system in Dubai works, as it became clear today that it is not done in the traditional way.

It seems that the greens are illuminated for a short distance ahead of the aircraft and as you taxy, the greens progressively light up one by one. Even when taxying at different speeds, the system seems to keep up with the pace of the aircraft, with a similar number of greens always being lit ahead. I am guessing the lighting system is dependent on a SMR input?

Does the lighting system tie in with the EFPS for the allocated taxy route, or is it run separately?

[ZOOKER]

Is BDiONU involved? :E

[hammerthrower]

I'm pretty sure the AGL is fully automated now with ASMGCS... but I don't work there so maybe someone can clarify?

[Cows getting bigger]

Dunno about the greens but the red stop bars take a while to clear, something the controllers appear to know about.

[Raghu]

Hi Emma,

In Dubai, Follow the Greens system delivered is a fully automated system in compliance with ICAO Doc 9830. It progressively lights up lights ahead of aircraft for about 200m, turns off as the once the aircraft passes based on the surveillance input and a seperation of 100m is maintained between aircrafts. Delivered system is operated by Integrated Controller Working Position and has been integrated leveraging an ATM grade Integration Engine with following systems:

1. Airfield Lighting Control & Monitoring System
2. Electronic Flight Progress Strip Systems
3. Advanced Surface Movement Guidance Control System (SMR + MLAT)
4. Visual Docking Guidance System
5. NAVAIDS like ILS/DME
6. Flight Data Processing System
7. At the Glass Video Recording System
8. ATC grade Video Surveillance System
9. Surface Manager (SMAN)
10. Pre Departure Sequencer
11. MET/AWOS
12. Airport Operations Database

System delivers following functionality:
1. Routing - Manual, Semi-automative and Fully Automatic
2. Guidance - Taxiway guidance, Runway Entry/Access and Runway Exit
3. Control - Runway Conflicts, Taxiway Conformance & Seperation
4. Planning - Calculation of TSAT/TTOT

System has been operational for a while and have proven beneficial for all stakeholders:

1. Capacity: +5ATMs in LVO
2. $800k worth of lighting energy cost savings
3. Reduced impact on ATC mental workload: 57% in VMC and about 70% in LVO
4. Improved situational awareness: 22% in VMC and 52% in LVO
5. 7500 Mt Carbon emission savings
6. Less radio congestion

Hope above helps.

R

[T250]

Still very much a trial, if the NOTAMs are anything to be believed :cool:

A0269/17 NOTAMR A1825/16
Q) OMAE/QXXXX/IV/NBO/A/000/999/2515N05522E005
A) OMDB B) 1702251700 C) 1705231600
D) DLY BTN 1100-1600
E) NEW AIRFIELD LGT FLW THE GREENS BEING USED.FLW ATC INSTRUCTIONS.
WILL ADZ ON ATIS IF FLW THE GREENS ARE IN USE.
PILOT STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR WING TIP CLR WHEN FLW GREEN CL LGT.
REF AIC 06/2014.

[Gonzo]

Improved situational awareness? For whom?

[172_driver]

Improved situational awareness? For whom?


You follow the greens, so you can then catch up wit where you are :p

[Gonzo]

You follow the greens, so you can then catch up wit where you are :p

But possibly not with where you're going or what the intention is.

Depends on your definition of SA I guess.

[The Many Tentacles]

The whole post by Raghu just sounds like it's being read from a management manual

[172_driver]

Depends on your definition of SA I guess.

It was tongue in cheek.

The greens doesn't subsitute following up your position on the ground chart. It does however lead you on to the proper taxiway once you vacate the runway. From there on everything is a little less stressful and you've got time to check in detail where the greens are taking you.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Delivered system is operated by Integrated Controller Working Position and has been integrated leveraging an ATM grade Integration Engine with following systems:>>

Standby for English version...

[Gonzo]

It was tongue in cheek.

The greens doesn't subsitute following up your position on the ground chart. It does however lead you on to the proper taxiway once you vacate the runway. From there on everything is a little less stressful and you've got time to check in detail where the greens are taking you.

Yes, we use manually switched FTG at LHR during darkness and low vis. I do worry that, certainly for non-familiar crews, there is an aspect of 'follow the magenta(green) line' and so the crews may be less likely to be aware of exactly where they are.

[tczulu]

Raghu only trying to help.No place on here for a long retired Heathrow controller to be making comments about someone for whom English probably isn't their first language.

[172_driver]

Yes, we use manually switched FTG at LHR during darkness and low vis. I do worry that, certainly for non-familiar crews, there is an aspect of 'follow the magenta(green) line' and so the crews may be less likely to be aware of exactly where they are

That's why I prefer LHR night time!

On a serious note, it's a great system. LHR is pretty straight forward and it's easy to find your way around. It's just that moment as you expedite off the runway, before you get the ground chart up, not knowing if you're going left or right, outer or inner, that can be a bit panicky. The greens really help.

[Gonzo]

I'm glad you like them!

:ok:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

172_driver.. It's been that for a long time. On my watch whenever a BOAC VC10 left the runway we'd all sing out: "Is it left here, London?" Tee hee.

[Talkdownman]

On my watch whenever a BOAC VC10 left the runway we'd all sing out: "Is it left here, London?" Tee hee.
Was certainly Tee Hee on Ten Left...

[Eau de Boeing]

172 Driver...

That's why you have Brake to Vacate, Airport Navigation Functionality and an F/O who can beam the charts to your screen the moment you vacate the runway!

Technology is good sometimes, not just on the ground :ok:

As for what Raghu said, follow the greens in DXB at your peril........

[flyandbike]

Follow the Greens - Background Information and Videos (http://WWW.FOLLOWTHEGREENS.COM)
Check this out, think about it, think about language problems resulting in 'strange' aircrew performance. IMO this system is designed to help both ATC and aircrew to act safe and efficient in a professional environment. May need some mindchange but ATCOs should be smart enough to identify a tool that helps to make work safer

"...at your peril..." is absolutely not adequate, there are profesionals working at DXB !

[172_driver]

172 Driver...

That's why you have Brake to Vacate, Airport Navigation Functionality and an F/O who can beam the charts to your screen the moment you vacate the runway!

Technology is good sometimes, not just on the ground

That's usually the moment when the iPad requires a new passcode. Thank you IT department for keeping us safe :ok:

[autothrottle]

The "follow the greens" system at EGLL is not as much of a technical marvel as the system in Dubai , however the system is operated by a team of ground specialists who go through just under 300 hours of training before allowed to operate. They have a UCE scheme and yearly technical and practical checks. They are able to coordinate with multiple ATCO's and LPO's for effective, and highly efficient , flow of air traffic. The stats show that there are less incidents (pushback errors etc) when the AGLCS is operated than not. The LPO also watches the ATCO and pilots, watching and listening for errors. The system at EGLL is world class and safe. Technology can add to this by making the system safer still, but I still think you'd have to go a long way to find a better system than the one at EGLL, one that is operated by a human.

[Radarman123]

I heard that it is NOT being used

[autothrottle]

Correct, the controllers have lost confidence when it gets busy.

[Radarman123]

Correct, the controllers have lost confidence when it gets busy.

What was the issue -- lack of integration with the A-SMGCS