View Full Version : Boeing aircraft - a MEL usage question? how your airline will do?

1st Apr 2015, 18:53
Dear all:

I am new here for this web. I'm currently a 744 captain, I have a question regarding the MEL usage after engine start and before takeoff period I would like to know what's your airline's handling policy?

If a malfunction occured during above mentioned period, after performing QRH action, if the EICAS MESSAGE still exist. Next step, pilots will check MEL, if this malfunction associated with a MEL (M)item, my company has created a list for some of malfunction items which with (M)procedures the aircraft need to return to bay for maintenance action but the other (M)s which are not in the Ground Turn Back list(GTB) may continue flying.

Personnally, I disagree with this procedure/idea that some selected (M)s which need to Ground Turn Back and some other (M)s no need. I think which against my knowledge of MEL usage. Therefor I would like to know how others/your airline's handling procedures regarding above issue.

2nd Apr 2015, 03:57
At my airline, during the period you describe ( between push back and takeoff) , the QRH is the 'operational document' and must be actioned, while the MEL is now a 'reference document' that must be consulted but not necessarily actioned.
What that means in reality is that after running the QRH, the Captain is required to pull out the DDG and read the applicable MEL, he or she can then make their own call on whether to return to blocks, carry on, or carry on after implementing any (O) items that they feel would benefit.
There is no requirement to return to blocks if the MEL contains an (M) item or anything else, the discretion is completely with the PIC , keeping in mind that the PIC must read the MEL.
That's how it works at my joint.

2nd Apr 2015, 04:05
Same aircraft type as you. (M) means go back and get it fixed. After all, a maintenance procedure is required. Have returned to gate twice, once for a Pack and once for an intermittent BLD OVHT/PRV caution(which did turn out to be a bleed leak due to a lose fitting). Perhaps somebody looked up all the various (M) procedures at your company and decided that some things were OK to get airborne with. I would be curious to see which (M) procedures you have been approved not to comply with.

Next question for everyone on the thread. Doe after engine start mean one engine or all engines started.

2nd Apr 2015, 05:16
Generally (US FAA interpretation), the transition from MEL to QRH as required reference document takes place at block out, not necessarily engine start. While you may THINK block out (when ACARS records it) is at engine start or pushback, it is by FAA definition the time the aircraft first taxies under its own power.

After block out, follow the QRH. If you think you can safely continue in that configuration on the planned flight, then continue at your discretion. If not, go back to the gate for maintenance.

2nd Apr 2015, 06:10
It all depends upon the definition of dispatch.In some places its WHEN YOU APPLY THRUST FOR TAKE OFF, at others its WHEN YOU START TO TAXI UNDER YOUR OWN POWER for the intention of taking off.Once dispatched you can consider just applying the QRH.However the final authority is with the PIC as always.If its something you can live with well........otherwise if its a safety concern or might ground you at the next place in the middle of nowhere better to RTG (return to the gate).When conducting command training I notice many many trainees getting too hung up on this area from a legalistic viewpoint instead of applying common sense.Like SOPs.Theyre only a guide not intended to be black and white court rulings.Chill.

de facto
2nd Apr 2015, 11:16
After engines start,you have a checklist which includes a "RECALL".
This Recall is my limit,as by then the aircraft has not moved under its own power since i havent started the taxi phase.:E
For any failure that may create problems down the road,then anytime before take off.

2nd Apr 2015, 12:50
At my US based airline dispatch is when power is added for takeoff. My airline tends to be conservative on safety issues which is a good thing. If a fault occurs during taxi you first go to the QRH and apply any procedures. You then go to the MDM. If it requires maintenance action it's back to the gate.

2nd Apr 2015, 19:04
Dear all:

Thanks for all quick replies, I learn a lot from your operating policy/knowledge.
My company creat the GTB( ground turn back) list reviewed by maintenance personel but not being reviewed by pilots. The problem I observed from my colleagues was pilots afraid of GTB when malfunction associated with (M) item is not within the GTB list, the needed pilot's judgement was missing. During daily operation,I do observe some (M) items should be included within the GTB however they are not included.
Once again, glad to hear from you, I know what's need to do next with my administration now!
Have a safe trip!!