Missed Approach during circle to land

[PedroRJ]

Hello guys.

Imagine you are approaching to an aerodrome and there is IFR procedure for only one runway. The wind favors the opposite runway and the ceiling is under the minimun required to make a visual circuit.

So, for exemple, you are approaching to runway 10. Once you reach the MDA, you iniciate a circle to land to rwy 28.

After that, when you are on short final rwy 28, for some reason, you have to go around. Which IFR missed approach procedure should you follow?

Thanks.

[G.Green]

Assuming you made an instrument approach to RNW10 and circled to land for 28, you have to follow the missed approach procedure for the instrument approach currently in use, which is 10.

[Skyjob]

Which IFR missed approach procedure should you follow?

You turn into the circling area and follow the missed approach as charted on IFR runway, in this case runway 10. Remember the turn is to be made into the circling area and your configuration post initiation of the missed approach may need be delayed until you are established in the direction of the missed approach (e.g. 737 flap 15 requirement for initial turn into the pattern)

[justanotherflyer]

The point being that if you have flown the RWY 10 approach then the next arrival is likely do the same. If you follow the missed approach procedure for RWY 28 then you will be opposite direction traffic - in IMC. Not a good situation!

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Circling_Approach

[Avenger]

5. All turns should be made in the same direction and the aeroplane should remain within the circling protected area while climbing either:
i. to the altitude assigned to any published circling missed approach maneuver if applicable;
ii. to the altitude assigned to the missed approach of the initial instrument approach;
iii. to the MSA;
iv. to the minimum holding altitude (MHA) applicable for transition to a holding facility or fix, or continue to climb to an MSA; or
v. as directed by ATS.
When the missed approach procedure is commenced on the ‘downwind’ leg of the circling maneuver, an ‘S’ turn may be undertaken to align the aeroplane on the initial instrument approach missed approach path, provided the aeroplane remains within the protected circling area.
The commander is responsible for ensuring adequate terrain clearance during the above-stipulated maneuvers, particularly during the execution of a missed approach initiated by ATS.

6. Because the circling maneuver may be accomplished in more than one direction, different patterns will be required to establish the aeroplane on the prescribed missed approach course depending on its position at the time visual reference is lost. In particular, all turns are to be in the prescribed direction if this is restricted, e.g. to the west/east (left or right hand) to remain within the protected circling area.

7. If a missed approach procedure is published for a particular runway onto which the aeroplane is conducting a circling approach and the aeroplane has commenced a maneuver to align with the runway, the missed approach for this direction may be accomplished. The ATS unit should be informed of the intention to fl y the published missed approach procedure for that particular runway.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

From short final you're going to need to carry out a reversal turn to get you on to the missed approach so you can't make all turns in the same direction.

[sycamore]

If the ceiling is under the minimum for c-t-l,then you don`t do it....

That`s why a `MINIMA is published FFS.

[PedroRJ]

Thanks everyone!!

Avenger, can you tell me where you got this information? Which public document?

Is there any publication beyond the ICAO Doc 8168 and the Circling Approach Discussion Paper??

I ask because some details are still confused. Example: On the short final for rwy 10 at 200ft, I have to go around (imagine the MDA is 600ft). So, first I keep the rwy hdg, climb to 600ft and only after reaching the MDA I iniciate the turn? Or could I made a climbing turn before reaching the MDA?

Thanks, guys!!

If the ceiling is under the minimum for c-t-l,then you don`t do it....
I said the ceiling is under the minimum for visual circuit, not for circle to land.

[Kirks gusset]

Pedro you seem to be getting confused between circling minima and flying a visual approach? What do you mean by minima for visual circuit and CTL? to commence the circling manoeuvre in the first instance you would need XX VIS/ XX Cloud base. Circle to land is a visual manoeuvre..usually commenced due tailwind limits. You cannot descend below circling minima for the approach unless you have the required visual reference. Both Boeing and Airbus FCTM have information on these manoeuvres and the exact limitations per individual operator are included in their Part A procedures.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<The point being that if you have flown the RWY 10 approach then the next arrival is likely do the same. If you follow the missed approach procedure for RWY 28 then you will be opposite direction traffic >>

I think you'll find that there are some nice people in ATC who will sort matters out....

[PedroRJ]

Kirks gusset, thank you for trying to help, but you do not actually get my point. I said the ceiling is under the minimum for visual circuit, only to avoid responses like: you could go around and make a visual circuit.

In other words, I said that only to emphasize I'd like to know about IFR procedures to perform a missed approach in that situation, not VFR (crosswind leg, downwind leg, etc). ;)

[Sydy]

Pedro,

I recommend you to read AIM 5-4-21 item C available here: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/



c. If visual reference is lost while circling-to-land from an instrument approach, the missed approach specified for that particular procedure must be followed (unless an alternate missed approach procedure is specified by ATC). To become established on the prescribed missed approach course, the pilot should make an initial climbing turn toward the landing runway and continue the turn until established on the missed approach course. Inasmuch as the circling maneuver may be accomplished in more than one direction, different patterns will be required to become established on the prescribed missed approach course, depending on the aircraft position at the time visual reference is lost. Adherence to the procedure will help assure that an aircraft will remain laterally within the circling and missed approach obstruction clearance areas. Refer to paragraph h concerning vertical obstruction clearance when starting a missed approach at other than the MAP. (See FIG 5-4-29.)

Some more in your language: Arremetida no procedimento para circular - Técnica e Operações - Fórum Contato Radar (http://forum.contatoradar.com.br/index.php/topic/114347-arremetida-no-procedimento-para-circular/)

[justanotherflyer]

I think you'll find that there are some nice people in ATC who will sort matters out....


Absolutely! And blessings be upon you! But the first line of defence remains correct piloting decisions, and it's worth Pedro's understanding the principles behind the rule.

When I set up this scenario during say, an IR renewal in an FTD, a dismaying proportion of supposedly knowledgeable candidates will charge off in the wrong direction. Throw in a radio call announcing another a/c is established on the localiser, and some "deer in the headlights" moments can ensue while they grapple with diminished situational awareness.

[Capn Bloggs]

Pedro you seem to be getting confused between circling minima and flying a visual approach? What do you mean by minima for visual circuit and CTL?
He's not confused. The weather required for a Visual approach is better than for a CTL, which is part of/the end of an instrument approach. Two completely different animals. He's doing a CTL, then has to Go Around in conditions that are not Visual Approach conditions.

Our AIP has similar text to Sydy.

I think you'll find that there are some nice people in ATC who will sort matters out....
Don't forget Class G operations.

So, first I keep the rwy hdg, climb to 600ft and only after reaching the MDA I iniciate the turn? Or could I made a climbing turn before reaching the MDA?
At/above the MDA you have terrain protection whilst in the Circling Area. However, provided you turn towards the runway (as per Sydy's quote) you should remain clear of terrain. A good idea to brief where you'll track during a MA from any point of your CTL.

[Kirks gusset]

Bloggs:
I assume when you talk about " weather " you refer to cloud base, not RVR

‘Visual approach’ means an approach when either part or all of an instrument approach procedure is not completed and the approach is executed with visual reference to the terrain.

8.1.3.1.6. Visual Approach Operations (AMC9 CAT.OP.MPA.110)
Minimum RVR / visibility for a visual approach is 800 m.

Minimum RVR for a CTL specified by chart or operator, usually not less than 3000m

Circling - MDH and Minimum Visibility vs. Aeroplane Category Table Visual Approach Operations (AMC9 CAT.OP.MPA.110)

Circle to Land
Aeroplane category
MDH / Visibility (ft - m)
Category C
600 - 3000

I fail to see how Visual is "better" than CTL?

Now, if we are saying that the instrument approach is carried out to MDA, say 600' then circling commences with the required RVR, but, on the final approach vis is lost and a missed approach executed I can understand the question and the answers are as prescribed.

[Groucho]

"He's not confused." Yes, Bloggs, he is, and so, I think are you. There is no 'Minimum' for a visual circuit which is what Pedro was asking about, not a 'visual approach'. Basic rule for visual circuits is don't hit anything.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

I think you'll find that there are some nice people in ATC who will sort matters out....

Hmmmm, in Spain or parts of France? Not likely.

[AerocatS2A]

"He's not confused." Yes, Bloggs, he is, and so, I think are you. There is no 'Minimum' for a visual circuit which is what Pedro was asking about, not a 'visual approach'. Basic rule for visual circuits is don't hit anything.
Geez man, they're all talking about a VMC approach, i.e., one that you could do if you were VFR, also known as a "circuit". The minima for a visual circle to land are normally well below VMC. They're not confused about anything.

[Capn Bloggs]

Minimum RVR / visibility for a visual approach is 800 m.

Minimum RVR for a CTL specified by chart or operator, usually not less than 3000m
Gusset, how can you have a min vis on a CTL of 3000m and min vis on a visual circuit of only 800m (as that is what you are implying a visual approach can be)?

[Groucho]

Kirks - I assume Ireland conforms to EUOPS and thus the minimum visibility for a CTL is IN FLIGHT VIS (not RVR) and used to be 2400m for Cat C (3600 Cat D?). Also the RVR must not be less than that specified for the instrument approach used - and you need 800m RVR to complete the CTL for the landing. No cloud base specified.

That is your answer as well, Bloggs.

Aerocat - a 'visual approach' is not the same as 'circuit'. Circuits (by definition) go 'round and round' something, but you can land stright in from a visual approach (I hope.........)

[PedroRJ]

Hy Groucho.

Actually, you got confused. Of course there is a minimum to make a visual approach (ceiling 1500ft and visibility 5000m). Exemple: the MDA is 600ft and the ceiling at this moment is 900ft. In this case, I could not make a visual approach, but I would be able to circle to land. ;)

Again, I said the ceiling is under the minimun required to make a visual circuit, only to avoid answers like: after go around, make a visual approach (crosswind leg, downwind leg, etc). Did you get it??????

Now, if you got so confused because of this, forget about it and focus on what really matters in this thread: I wold like to read more about my doubt: which IFR procedure should I follow and how to execute it?

I'm not talking about only airliners planes... Imagine this situation in GA, for exemple.

So, I ask everyone: Is there any publication beyond the ICAO Doc 8168 and the Circling Approach Discussion Paper??

[Kirks gusset]

I didn't mention " visual circuit" you guys dreamt that one up!

‘Visual approach’ means an approach when either part or all of an instrument approach procedure is not completed and the approach is executed with visual reference to the terrain.

The original question was in regards to the missed approach following a circle ( or part circling) procedure.

Please read more carefully the previous answer and all will become clear.

Bloggs of course you can have a lower vis for a visual approach segment following an instrument approach than required for a circle. check any Jepp or Aerad .

Groucho, nope! if the chart specifies more vis then you go by the chart, Vienna, Innsbrook, Chambery, all require more than 2400m. I.e at MDA you must have the required in flight Vis to continue the manoeuvre.

[galaxy flyer]

Could fly a contact approach...1sm visibility and clear of cloud. :p

[AerocatS2A]

In Australia a visual approach requires 5000m vis, a circle to land is not a visual approach, the visual part of a straight in instrument approach is also not a visual approach. Perhaps the terminology problem here is due to different country's rules.

The point is that Pedro was just trying to limit the answers to the requirements for flying a missed approach in IMC, he didn't want anyone saying that you should climb back up to MDA and have another go at it. That was pretty obvious from the context of the question. Nitpicking terminology is beside the point.

[Groucho]

Kirks -
"Groucho, nope! if the chart specifies more vis then you go by the chart"

hoping you noticed
"the minimum visibility for a CTL is IN FLIGHT VIS (not RVR) and used to be 2400m for Cat C (3600 Cat D?)"

I have highlighted it for you.

[Groucho]

Pedro - I'm not sure what you are seeking. All the early posts tell you what to do, and your 'need' for written instructions leaves me breathless! If nothing else, 'justanotherflyer' give you the SENSIBLE answer.

To answer your post (no 9), yes, climb to circling MDA before manoeuvring TO BE SAFE (especially if you cannot 'see') since ONLY at or above that MDA are you clear of obstacles within the circling area. Again, commonsense really?

This should all be taught to you before you do any circling,

[PedroRJ]

Groucho, is it a problem I want to read about? :D:D

If you do not know where I can find official publications, just say me ;)

I'm not doubting anyone about my question. One more time, you got so confused...

Besides, the more a pilot can read, the better for him.

[Groucho]

"I'm not doubting anyone about my question. One more time, you got so confused..."

One more time - we have answered your question. WHO is confused?


"Besides, the more a pilot can read, the better for him."

Should read

"the more a pilot can work out from the obvious, the better for him."

If you are still desperate for written words, why not ask your training department, or are we a flight simmer?

[PedroRJ]

No, you did not answer. At least about official publications, you did not.

I´m not desperate for written words, I just asked a simple question about written words. You who seems desperate, maybe beacuse you could not answer.

I do not know why you do not accept my question, even it is so obvious. Please, can I read abou this? I ask again. Dou you let me read about this? Please, please, please. ;)

Thanks a lot.