www.kiwiregionalairlines.co.nz

[BNEA320]

Ewan Wilson giving it another go, but this time not taking on NZ.

With high cost NZ cutting back, it probably makes sense to use low cost Saab 340's.

+ idea of using NZAF base on north shore of Auckland makes a lot of sense.

Wish him luck.

[c100driver]

SAAB 340 is more expensive to run than a Beech, landing fees are higher, en-route charges are higher, cabin crew are required and moves from a part 135 to a part 121 cost structure to the regions who are already complaining why the cannot get $59 tickets from AKL to PMR!

Only real cost advantage is to use cheap labour!

[Ollie Onion]

Not to mention the Government has already ruled out him being able to use the RNZAF base for operations. So between the old expensive aircraft, the inability to access his prefered base combined with his previous form in the area, I wouldn't be committing any money to this venture

[27/09]

BNEA320, you'd be about the only person wishing EW any luck.

So between the old expensive aircraft, the inability to access his prefered base combined with his previous form in the area, I wouldn't be committing any money to this venture

You, and quite a few others too I would suggest.

[BNEA320]

was told by operator of Beech 1900 & Saab 340 that about same cost to operate, but one had 19 seats & other 33-37 seats, so 14 to 18 seats at no extra cost.

[BNEA320]

I don't think they have given up on using RNZAF base on north shore. AKL is one huge mess, like SYD.

[BNEA320]

think a lot of people in regional NZL who have been abandoned by NZ, would hope he succeeds in getting it off the ground.


Business types really don't care about the fare, they just want to be able to get to AKL or WLG without 1st driving for an hour or 2.


It was never going to be aimed at leisure travellers.

[waren9]

i dont think abandoned is the right word

regional fares will never match the $59 main truck jet loss leaders. nz'ers in the regions expect similar and the reality is that it simply costs more than that.

[BNEA320]

Air NZ is stopping flying completely to certain towns in NZ citing high costs.


That's complete abandonment.


NZ is a high cost airline & Beech 1900's are expensive per seat to operate.


We didn't mention $59 fares.

[BNEA320]

nope.


Plenty of regional routes in NZ in not too distance future, will have no air service whatsoever.


KRA just needs to fill in where NZ is abandoning routes.


Catch is, aircraft can't be in 2 places at once.


Maybe, KRA is an easy way to start flying domestically in OZ, with NZL aircraft, NZL crews, NZCAA rules not CASA & NZL wages & conditions.


Look at Rex, who now have ~ 52 Saab 340's. How long since they've made a loss ?

[c100driver]

Air NZ is stopping flying completely to certain towns in NZ citing high costs.


That's complete abandonment.

No it is not that is commercial reality. The regions have been living in a fools paradise for so long that they think a ticket should be the same as a main trunk jet operation.

was told by operator of Beech 1900 & Saab 340 that about same cost to operate, but one had 19 seats & other 33-37 seats, so 14 to 18 seats at no extra cost.

The Beech is a particularly expensive aircraft to operate, however the SAAB is not much better on a cost per seat as you now have to pay for an extra crew member and the operational cost of part 121 is significantly higher.

[waren9]

spin it how you want flog. :=

some routes were costing money. the airline is privately owned and its primary job is to make money for its shareholders.

abandoned? you make it sound like airnz owes the regions something? maybe if kiwis werent so f tight and didnt jump on emirates/cathay/singapore or gobble up cheap jetstar fares like lollies you might have a point.

all the players in the market have a choice. and so does airnz.

[mattyj]

Ewan Wilson and a new airline aside, there's all sorts of good reasons to make Whenuapai a dual use airport:
-It was once..it could be again
-There is precedent..Blenheim
-There are hundreds of thousands of aucklanders in the west and north shore very poorly served by AIAL
-AIAL has no understanding of aviation and is only interested in car parking and retail and deserves competition
-AIAL was involved in disgraceful conduct during the previous application and were lucky not to be prosecuted
-AIAL constantly lies about expanding to two runways but has no intention of ever doing so
-taxpayers own Whenuapai and at present, it is under-utilised with relatively low movements, taxpayers aren't getting good value for money
-NZAA is very poorly served by public transport

Etc etc

[cnsnz]

The regions have always had to support NZ as it has been the only way to get anywhere.
Other carriers have stepped into fill voids in the past but as soon as they start to make progress Air NZ has squeezed them out, they will then continue to offer a service until they decide its not profitable then the cycle will start again someone new steps up in a year or two NZ will decide they want it back.
The people who jump on the likes of EK/SQ/CX are from the main centers who don't have to take an NZ flight to connect the regions dont have that option.

[27/09]

BNE320: Look at Rex, who now have ~ 52 Saab 340's. How long since they've made a loss ?

Don't they operate some routes where the state government subsidises the fare? Also aren't some routes controlled as to who can operate them? If that's the case then it's a bit easier to make money. None of that over here.

I have no problem with someone starting up to fill any gaps and the use of NZWP is a good idea, though AIAL will do what ever it takes to scuttle any such plan.

It's just the person who is spruiking these plans I have issues with.

[burty]

NZ is a high cost airline & Beech 1900's are expensive per seat to operate.


We didn't mention $59 fares.

Yes, NZ may have been a high cost airline but it was at least a good product, with excellent standards.

Business types are getting Q300's... I fail to see how a bunch of Saab's will sway them.

The towns which have been "abandoned" were due to low numbers. Whakatane might have supported a daily Q300 return but lots of folks were already driving to Rotorua/Tauranga because it was cheaper

Kiwi's are cheap and love to complain. Most of the complaints about route closures will be coming from people who didn't use the service or used it sporadically.

As for Ewan Wilson's latest Airline, it's all academic really. I'd be amazed if CAA gave him an AOC and the Route structure on the website is mind boggling. Almost looks like he gave a toddler a map of New Zealand and some crayons.

The markets abandoned where not necessarily cancelled due to low numbers but rather a dead end future or the need to help prop up other routes. TUO-WLG was usually well used, but a Q300 on TUO-AKL is going to be hard work in itself, let alone if you had to fill a Dash to Wellington too. WRE-WLG, another good route, but the Q loads ex WRE for AKL are hardly chocka so why not send em via AKL and pocket the difference?

And how much of the losses were due to crew shortages at Eagle and having to get charter operators in to fill the gaps??

Having said all that, the economics of the B1900 make it a basket case of an airplane and there is no obvious replacement so what'ya going to do? Pretty much what they have done I would say.

As for Ewan Wilson, I'm pretty sure the guy has never held an AOC himself so it's all new for him in many ways. Looking at this proposed route structure though, I'm pretty sure Air NZ can, via one stop options, compete with him on every single route he is proposing. It'll be a blood bath.

[43Inches]

Look at Rex, who now have ~ 52 Saab 340's. How long since they've made a loss ?

Rex makes profit through economy of scale, a new start up with a Saab will probably have operating costs per seat 30% higher. Rex has an extremely good working relationships with Saab, GE and numerous other parts suppliers, they do their own maintenance and own the whole fleet outright. I would guess Rex can operate a 340 for less than a leased 1900.

Don't they operate some routes where the state government subsidises the fare? Also aren't some routes controlled as to who can operate them? If that's the case then it's a bit easier to make money. None of that over here.

Although these routes make money, I'd say the main profit is from the competitive major regional routes. Apart from the Queensland routes the few others are non-subsidised, just exclusive rights.

A better example of what can be done with a Saab fleet is Silver airlines, all the majors had abandoned a lot of small routes in the US. Silver has shown they are still viable with the Saab and is expanding rapidly.

[cavemanzk]

At the end of the day if they start, NZ will just put one of its shinny new ATR 72-600 one at the same time at half the cost. Then it will be good by KRA.

They might have more luck with using Ardmore in Auckland?

[Sqwark2000]

Business types really don't care about the fare, they just want to be able to get to AKL or WLG without 1st driving for an hour or 2.

You think getting from Whenuapai to Auckland City @7:30-9:00am is going to be faster than AKL International - City. And vice-versa, the North West motorway is a slow moving carpark from about 4:30....

[Hempy]

was told by operator of Beech 1900 & Saab 340 that about same cost to operate

If an extra ~$200/hr is considered 'about the same cost' I reckon you should invest :ok:

[BNEA320]

so extra $200/hour for an extra 14-18 seats, seems a pretty good deal + have flight attendant & toilet in a much bigger aircraft.


Also Rex having 52 of these birds flying around, gives them some sort of credibility.

[BNEA320]

suggest it's about getting from northern Auckland to Wellington, not the other way around.

[cavemanzk]

suggest it's about getting from northern Auckland to Wellington, not the other way around.

But does it really save you that much time? do it once in an Saab and next time your sure to book an AKL-WLG A320 flight.

NZWP-WLG in an prop would be around 1.20-1.30minutes

[Justa Dash]

Rex makes profit through economy of scale, a new start up with a Saab will probably have operating costs per seat 30% higher. Rex has an extremely good working relationships with Saab, GE and numerous other parts suppliers, they do their own maintenance and own the whole fleet outright. I would guess Rex can operate a 340 for less than a leased 1900.



Although these routes make money, I'd say the main profit is from the competitive major regional routes. Apart from the Queensland routes the few others are non-subsidised, just exclusive rights.

A better example of what can be done with a Saab fleet is Silver airlines, all the majors had abandoned a lot of small routes in the US. Silver has shown they are still viable with the Saab and is expanding rapidly.
Rex model and S340 no brainer for NZ market. Cool climate point to point services etc they would probably do quiet well as would the PAX

[cnsnz]

S340 were used for years in NZ by Air Nelson/NZ Link and replaced with more efficient Q300 so not an unknown aircraft to NZ.

[BNEA320]

so much faster out of RNZAF base & no stress.


No long drive from northern Auckland to AKL.


No long walk from car park.


No long check in lines.


No stupid security nonscience. Bend over please(rubber glove)


No congestion on runway.


Much faster to board up to 34 pax, than up to 160+ pax.


Saab would be faster to climb, slower on cruise, so block times aren't that different.


Time savings above more than compensate for slower cruise.


Guessing around 90 mins saved in each direction, that's 3 hours return.

[BNEA320]

Q300 (mostly 50 seaters) might be more efficient per seat, but if market doesn't need a 50 seater, a 34 seater might work fine.

[Kinger]

There may be no "security nonscience(?)" at the terminal, but do you expect NZRAF to allow free access to a base? Would you rather drop your pants at the front gate?

[BNEA320]

You know it, I know it, but the public has been conned into thinking airport security does anything at all, in terms of making flying any safer.




What happens at other shared airports in NZL ?


Is it Blenheim where air force & civil share runway ?


Even if KRA had to have their own separate "terminal", it wouldn't need to be very big for a few 34 seater flights a day.




Apparently, you don't have to go through any security if flying on a turbo prop in NZL, just like you don't in OZ if aircraft MTOW is under 20 tonnes & no other aircraft over 20 tonnes operating from that airport.


eg. most Rex regional ports in OZ, with DBO being the exception, although Rex were trying to fight that, because Dubbo council has to have security for QF Q400's.

[Ollie Onion]

Government nixes airline's Whenuapai-Wellington plan - Business - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11408688)

End of.

[BNEA320]

this news is over a month old. It's not over by a long shot.


Why wouldn't they keep plugging away ?


Govt can change it's mind in a heartbeat.


Great idea that should be pursued.

[cnsnz]

By the time KRA get an AOC and a proposed start date of late 2015 early 2016 he might find some of the routes already filled by another new entrant, which will make it even more difficult.
The proposed route structure doesn't appear to have much leeway for an aog aircraft especially with ZQN curfews?
Plane stuck in ZQN leaves chance of zqn/nsn/pmr/trg all without any flights for the day which could make it hard to keep the customers loyal.

[BNEA320]

I doubt if they plan to be at ZQN anywhere near curfew.

[BNEA320]

you're kidding right.


Who wants to go to the biggest toilet in NZL (AKL) when their might be a stress free alternative, that's saves you up to 4 hours on a return trip to WLG.


How do we get up to 4 hours ?


1) say 1 hours driving, no longer required (depends on exactly where in northern Auckland you live).
2) finding a car park & then walking to terminal
3) bend over q's
4) minimum check in time - no one would plan on checkin for any domestic flight out of AKL less than 30 mins prior.


If you live only few kms from RNZAF base, you might only need to arrive at airport 5-10 mins before departure. If have bags you can carry them to aircraft yourself.


BUA's (big ugly airports) are great for the operators, but terribly inefficient for the passengers.


This is why alternative airports are being looked at in BNE, SYD & MEL.


RE ff pts. Most people get the majority of their points from credit cards not flying.


& apart from public servants, who has time to swan around a lounge.






What you are forgetting is, at an alternate airport, there are no congestion delays like at BUA's.

[BNEA320]

no disagree completely.


Have a look at www.surfair.com (http://www.surfair.com) in USA.


People at sick of the BS at BUA's.


Majority of people who fly BNE/SYD, SYD/MEL or AKL/WLG for a day trip, aren't going for 2 hours at their destination.


They go early am & come home after 1700.


They don't want to be wasting time in airline lounges. They'd rather be at home with family.

[waren9]

kra will be fine. bnea320 says so.

which spotters forum those acronyms come from?

[cnsnz]

BNE320 what is your role with KRA?
You seem to be doing alot of work trying to get support for Whenuapai which as the Govt has said is a non starter.

[wishiwasupthere]

Is it school holidays again?

[BNEA320]

& tomorrow KRA might get approval. You seem to think it's set in stone. It's only the air force. They will do as they are told.


Don't have anything to do with KRA, but they have a good plan, flying monopoly routes, for which business types will pay for the convenience.


Wilson got screwed last time by very dodgy tactics of that broke airline NZ, so you have to give him a go for trying.

[Water Wings]

Don't have anything to do with KRA, but they have a good plan, flying monopoly routes, for which business types will pay for the convenience.
I'd say it's the total opposite. It is a very confused business plan that seems unsure if it is catering mainly to business types or leisure travellers. From a launching point, far too many destinations with insufficient frequencies likely to really attract the business crowd.

Talk of linking the likes of Nelson to Queenstown to cater for tourists. How many tourists do you think each year travel directly between those two points without visiting points in between. Close to zero probably as they'll virtually all be heading to intermediate points via road transport (the glaciers etc).

Who then seriously thinks a regional air service is sustainable by once a year travellers who will moan and voice their displeasure at an airfare that actually reflects the cost of offering the service?

If he wanted to use NZWP, wouldn't you ensure your ducks are in a row before releasing a statement to the media and having the government immediately say "ummm....no you can't?" Looks amateurish. NZWB is joint use BUT the terminal is not on RNZAF land and one is not required to enter an RNZAF facility to board your plane. NZWP has an entirely different layout and the defence forces in most countries generally aren't happy about having people just strolling around their facilities.

[BNEA320]

granted not all are business routes, but suggest the non-business routes might be middle of the day or weekends, whereas the business routes would be around peak hour am & pm Mon-Fri.


Have to remember, that many Kiwi business types in smaller cities now, or soon will have no commercial air service anywhere.


They don't want to drive an hour or 2 just to get to an airport where they can get a flight to Auckland or WLG.


They've stated they are not going to fly in direct competition to NZ. In fact, you'd think NZ would want a low cost operator to feed their international services rather than feed QF or EK or ?


NZ rubbed him out last time via Freedom & govt allowed that to happen. Now govt owns NZ.

[LPS500]

Well i have to say this, enough of the NZWP rubbish. Sure its a good idea, one that will no doubt have the great unwashed babbling on if it doesn't happen. Question is who is going to pay for the 139 Certification for NZWP? RNZAF? Why would they bother, as per previous its an Air Force Base. NZOH stacked up for 139 as it is a money maker on the alternate for intl airlines into NZAA. The Govt? Why, its a previously failed airline exec setting himself up for same. KRA? More costs, not going to happen. The man behind all this has been convicted of fraud, how will he even pass the FPP?

[propaganda]

Nobody is going to make any money on these thin regional routes, blimey if EAL couldn't make it work and they weren't exactly flash on the remuneration front. I just cannot see this working for any of these new entrant operators. Unless, there are substantial local govt grants to ensure an air service is provided for a fixed period and they pay their staff less than EAL did.

The whole process of obtaining the necessary regulatory approvals to even get off the ground will require a very large capital investment.I am sure that Air NZ analysed all the options and crunched the numbers thoroughly, but simply could not make the numbers work, even with their over inflated prices.

Also, with Airways NZ ( CAA) moving rapidly towards RNAV 1 and 2 procedures it won't be too long before a substantial investment will be needed to comply with these new requirements.

[mattyj]

RNP1 and RNP2..I wish RNAV1 and 2, they're easy..RNPs are very difficult because CAA doesn't understand their own rules yet!

[kiwi grey]

Spot on.
Quite apart from LPS500's entirely reasonable points, the real impediment is politics.
The people that would be most upset by additional air movement noise would be those that live in the elctorates of Helensville and North Shore. These are both ultra-safe National seats and are currently held by The Rt. Hon John Key (Prime Minister, Minister of National Security and Intelligence, and Minister of Tourism) and The Hon. Maggie Barry (Minister for Arts, Culture & Heritage, Minister of Conservation, and Minister for Senior Citizens). There is no way in the world that civilian RPT use of Whenuapai is going to occur under a National Party lead government.
Anyone who wants dual use of NZWP better get busy working for a change in government, preferably while leaving Helensville and North Shore as nice safe opposition-held seats. :E

[mattyj]

..well those electorates would also be the biggest users of an airport at Whenuapai..the only reason the proposal failed last time was the opposition (AIAL) funded the Greenhithe and Herald Island Nimby group to produce a massive RMA/noise footprint case to fight the idea. The dual use concept never failed, the government just let it fade away because it was too much trouble

[Sop_Monkey]

I don't agree a military airfield should be used for civilian operations, no matter how small and insignificant NZ is in the big picture.

Keep the military separate if at all possible. Mixing the two, the civilian becomes a valid military target.

Having said that, we might as well throw the Geneva convention rules out the window, in view of the scum IS we are going to confront soon.

[Sqwark2000]

NZWB may be a civil/military airfield, but the only thing they share is the runway and some of the apron.

NZWP would require significant infrastructure works to separate the civil world from the military world and the government is not going to fund that for a regional airline start-up with a chequered history in the management ranks, and I doubt KRA will have anywhere enough capital to build it themselves.

Where do you think you'll put a terminal, decent sized carpark "close" to said terminal and new roading to aforementioned terminal/carpark??

Too many $$$, not enough ROI.

[waren9]

Kiwi Regional Airlines - Career Opportunities (http://www.kiwiregionalairlines.co.nz/careers.html)

let us know how you get on

[mattyj]

Put the terminal and apron on one of the holes at the airbase golf course..handy to the Greenhithe ring route..off duty wing commanders don't need 18 holes anyway..they're all drunk by the time they get to 9

[BNEA320]

talking a few 34 seaters a day. Don't need a terminal of any size or carparks.


People DO NOT want to spend 1 minute more at BUA's(big ugly airports) like AKL or SYD than they have to, esp business types, who want to turn up, get on aircraft & fly.


Interestingly, in this months Airways magazine, there's a story on Rise based in Texas (seemingless a clone of www.surfair.com (http://www.surfair.com) based in California who are a subscription based airline, (fly as much as u want in a month) & yet another one, Texas Air Shuttle.


This is the growth area. People abandoning BUA's.

[scon]

BNEA320, While you may be correct in that business types want to move away from larger airports. They also don't want to stand in the cold and wet and park their cars on the street miles away, as would be the case if they did away with terminals and carparks per your suggestion

Secondly, Texas has a population of 27+ million, California 38+ million. SurfAir operates PC-12's and Kiwi Regional Airlines is not a subscription airline so i'm not entirely sure that last example is relevant?

[tartare]

Last time I took off from Whenuapai on a jolly in a 5 sqn P3 that runway was a bumpy old mess.
Would sure give a Saab a hammering.
And I've said it before, and I'll say it again - NZ is a one and a half airline market, and Air New Zealand want to be one and a half airlines!

[reynoldsno1]

NZWP would require significant infrastructure works to separate the civil world from the military world
Don't need a terminal of any size or carparks

NZWP does not meet ICAO Annex 14/CAR Pt.139 requirements and would require extensive exemptions to be certified.

[luckyluke]

Interesting interview from this mornings TV
Kiwi Regional Airlines plans to be airborne before 2016 | TVShows | 3 News (http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/paulhenry/kiwi-regional-airlines-plans-to-be-airborne-before-2016-2015041007)

[cavemanzk]

People DO NOT want to spend 1 minute more at BUA's(big ugly airports) like AKL or SYD than they have to, esp business types, who want to turn up, get on aircraft & fly.

Have you ever flown regionally or domestically in New Zealand?

Flying out of AKL Domestic is pretty quick and straight-forward, about years ago NZ removed the check-in counters. Which in-turn removed these ques that you talked about, I flew SYD-BNK recently as was shocked by how long it the que took to drop by bag.

In AKL it takes less than 60 seconds to get an bag tag, and drop your bag on the belt.

If you're flying regionally you can drop your car off outside the gate, head straight into the Regional Koru Club an onto the plane directly for there. In fact you have to travel less distance than most regional airports in NZ.

[BNEA320]

the AKLs & SYDs of this world are the toilets of world aviation.


The bigger the airport, the worse the experience for the traveller.

[cavemanzk]

the AKLs & SYDs of this world are the toilets of world aviation.

The bigger the airport, the worse the experience for the traveller.

When did you last use AKL? I've never really had that much problems in AKL. Wrost I've had in NZ/AU is OOL

[wishiwasupthere]

A plane spotting forum somewhere is surely missing thier fool.

[OmakaAl]

Nelson to become hub for new Kiwi Regional Airlines | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/67685214/nelson-to-become-hub-for-new-kiwi-regional-airlines)

[waren9]

nelson hub announced (http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/67685214/nelson-to-become-hub-for-new-kiwi-regional-airlines)

maybe looking for some sf340 rated pilots already living locally not wanting to move?

[BNEA320]

You don't get it. People en masse, hate big airports & bigger airports are getting worse, far worse.


No security requirement for Saab's at smaller airports either.

[Water Wings]

No security requirement for Saab's at smaller airports either.
You've never visited a New Zealand airport have you.....

No security screening for turboprops at ANY New Zealand airport.

[BNEA320]

while BUA operators make record profits.


ACCC says passenger experience little improved despite increasing airport profits | Australian Aviation (http://australianaviation.com.au/2015/04/accc-says-passenger-experience-little-improved-despite-improving-airport-profits/)

[Fool Sufferer]

"this says it all, BUA's are hated by the public"

It does nothing of the sort. The article merely states that the average quality of service rating has remained satisfactory, despite increasing profits and some investment, hardly validating this particular example of your peculiar obsessions.

[Big Balls]

I hate to say it, but in its proposed form I can't see this airline surviving.

There is no market for this type of operation. Air NZ has and is always looking for new routes but the linking of regional centres is not commercially viable. Even with Air NZs cost base being considerably lower than that of KRA, given they already have the infrastructure at these airports, they can't make it stack up.

Initially they will probably do ok, they will get those people that are curious, the anti Air NZers and a handful of overseas visitors but long term people are going to want convenience, frequency and reliability. I just can't see KRA being able to offer that with two aircraft on a quite a long bus service type network. What happens when the aircraft breaks down in Queesntown? The next service through there won't be for a few hours, and it's not like they can offload pax onto Air NZ or Jetstar.

With regards Whenuapai as a second airport for Auckland. It's not going to happen in the short to medium term. No one is going to stump up the millions required to provide terminal space, additional taxiways, road access, etc. that would be required to make it work. There is no reason why it can't be a joint civil/military base its just not laid out well enough to allow for separate operations. There is a lot of available land by RWY 26 but that area lacks good road access and has no apron or taxi ways.

I'm sure there probably is room for another regional airline, but this type of service is not the answer. Do what Sounds Air and GBA are doing, work into the main centres and work with Air NZ/Jetstar to provide good connections.

[BNEA320]

KRA will be operating routes that NZ have abandoned due to their very high costs.


NZ have never really been a very efficient airline. Govt gave them something like $880 million bail out, but they are fat & lazy as have no competition on many domestic routes & also many international routes, esp. when you take into a/c the VA/NZ alliance.


BTW you don't need a lot of infrastructure at small airports with no security required.

[27/09]

Govt gave them something like $880 million bail out,

Ahem........ The government didn't give them any money, .......... they bought shares in the company and have since sold off a significant proportion of the shares for a handsome profit.

However don't let the facts get in the way of a good story

[BNEA320]

ok do tell.


How much of NZ is still govt owned ?

[waren9]

its time you did some homework for yourself. and not just on the ownership of airnz

[BNEA320]

think govt still owns a big chunk of NZ. Without govt NZ wouldn't even exist now.

[waren9]

no doubt. but whats your point?

wanna talk protectionism against airnz ops in oz?

[cavemanzk]

think govt still owns a big chunk of NZ. Without govt NZ wouldn't even exist now.

They own around 40-50% percent of the shares, New Zealand law sates that the government can't control Air New Zealand and they are an silent share holder.

[cavemanzk]

Looks like KRA is going to have bit of an hard time!

NZ will add an extra 650,000 seats to the domestic market over the next year - Air New Zealand to add more than 650,000 domestic seats | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/67847310/Air-New-Zealand-to-add-more-than-650-000-domestic-seats)

While most of the capacity is main truck, it will make people drive to get an cheaper fare.

[go123]

I don't see how this will affect KRA at all since they are not competing on the same routes as Air NZ?

[cavemanzk]

I don't see how this will affect KRA at all since they are not competing on the same routes as Air NZ?


To some level it will, as it will cheaper to drive to the nearest main centre to take advantage of cheaper main trunk fares.

[go123]

In some cases this could be true, but I'd say it'd still be cheaper flying say - NZTG to NZPM than driving to AKL and paying for parking, plus the extra time that it would add to a trip. I guess for some it comes down to the cheapest price and for others with limited time it's all about convenience. Time will tell...

[BNEA320]

it's never been about Tiger type passengers. You're never going to have Tiger type fares with 34 seaters.

[phildan89]

An advertisement for pilots has just gone up:

Kiwi Regional Airlines - Career Opportunities (http://kiwiregionalairlines.co.nz/careers.html)

Successful candidates for Captains will have:


New Zealand or Australian ATPL with Saab 340 type rating
4000 minimum total hours
1000 PIC hours on type
Valid Class 1 Medical Certificate
Priority will be give to those who have completed 3 take-offs and landings on type in the last 90 days
Priority will be given to those who's date of last SIM check on type is within the last 6 months at time of joining

Successful candidates for First Officers will have:


New Zealand or Australian ATPL with Saab 340 type rating
1500 minimum total hours
500 hours Airline operations on twin engine turbine
Valid Class 1 Medical Certificate
Priority will be give to those who have completed 3 take-offs and landings on type in the last 90 days
Priority will be given to those who’s date of last SIM check on type is within the last 6 months at time of joining

Asking for a few hours there!

[Water Wings]

Asking for a few hours there!Indeed. Going to have to offer some decent $$ to attract people with those sort of requirements.
After kiwis in Aussie who meet those requirements I think. Have to be pretty certain of your decision though if you were leaving a secure job to fly for this startup.......


Also I see from the ad, they've obviously gone and bought some 'A' models (cheaper of course). Anyone think Mr Wilson has yet figured out from the previous time the 'A' model was around in New Zealand that it doesn't have the performance to completely fill it on many New Zealand routes (suffering both payload vs. fuel trade off issues and performance limitations)?

[BNEA320]

A Models are cheap. Saw one of $700k.


Think most of Saab drivers at Vincent were Kiwis. Wonder if any of them looking for jobs back home. It's over 11 months now since they went belly up.

[sahni]

Agreed that those requirements for pilots should justify decent pay. But as Nelson will be crew base one should expect 'sunshine wages' i.e. nothing flash compared to OZ pay for a similar role.

I could be wrong but..

[ZK-EBC]

KIWI Regional Airlines has announced the routes it will fly with its first aircraft

Commencing on September 27th this year, Kiwi will start each day with a return Dunedin – Queenstown flight, supporting close business and tourism relationships between the two cities.

The aircraft, a SAAB 340A 32-seat twin-engine turboprop model, will then fly mid-morning to Nelson direct from Dunedin, a route that has not been flown previously by a scheduled service, but connects the country's premier fishing industry ports, and the two largest South Island cities outside Christchurch.

From Nelson, Kiwi flies return to Hamilton in the middle of the day, renewing a connection flown by thousands of passengers annually on both Origin Pacific and Air New Zealand until 2008.

The flight then returns from Nelson to Dunedin mid-afternoon, before repeating the Dunedin – Queenstown return flight in the early evening.

Kiwi Chief executive Ewan Wilson said he was "very pleased at the progress Kiwi is making"'.

"Our Civil Aviation Authority certification is well under way, key personnel have been appointed, airports are being negotiated with, aircraft purchase steps are nearing fruition and now we have finalised our first route."

"Our route is an exciting one, different from all other airlines, and we expect will be well-supported by the communities it serves."

Kiwi intends to add a second aircraft, and additional routes, within the next 12 months.

[cnsnz]

I would have thought you would want 2 aircraft before you started operating RPT from one end of the country to the other?
How long before we see stories about upset pax when the aircraft is AOG and no alternative flights on offer?

[c100driver]

SAAB 340A equals business failure. The A is a dog whenever you get hot and high. They will not be flying IFR to Queenstown with any sort of reliable schedule, the SAAB does not have RNP AR qualification. I suspect the EO for the SAAB will be lower than the MSA, which will be problematic and in icing conditions will be almost impossible.

[Ollie Onion]

Well, I thought that they might have a chance depending on the routes, this for me though makes them a dead duck. They are going to have ONE aircraft flying the length of the country on a schedule so tight that the whole thing will fall to pieces after the first breakdown, diversion.

Taking a non-RNP aircraft into ZQN will guarantee many diversions, they might as well book the bus now.

[framer]

I agree that Queenstown will be hugely problematic to this schedule. When I used to fly in there in a non RNP -AR capable aircraft we would often divert. I remember at one stage diverting three days in a row.
If Queenstown wasn't part of the mix and there were two aircraft it would seem viable. Whatever they do they have to stay away from the fracas on the routes contested by Jetstar.
Good luck to them. I'd love to see them succeed.

[BNEA320]

340A's must be as cheap as chips to buy.


Note the press release says 32 seats. Wonder if they've pulled seats to give better performance ?


Surely, they'd have some backup if aircraft goes U/S but who/what ?


Isn't alternate for ZQN now the new Te Anua strip ?

[27/09]

Isn't alternate for ZQN now the new Te Anua strip ?

Do you mean Te Anau? I'd hardly think so.

[Konev]

could divert to alexandra, wanaka or teanau. first two would be there preference i suspect.

[27/09]

could divert to alexandra, wanaka or teanau. first two would be there preference i suspect.

Isn't the LX NDB soon to be withdrawn?

Wanaka has only RNAV approaches which means "sole means" nav ability plus I'm not sure you could use it as an alternate for these reasons anyway.

[XPT]

does anyone know how Kiwi's crowdfunding campaign is going or went, for their 2nd aircraft ?

[LPS500]

does anyone know how Kiwi's crowdfunding campaign is going or went, for their 2nd aircraft ?

Not terribly well, they shut up shop July 30 and sell the Saab to Air Chats...

[cavemanzk]

History does repeat it self, wonder what he will try in 15 years time? Maybe Kiwi Pacific Airlines?

Interesting to see CV getting to the SF340, maybe an replacement for there passenger conviars down the track? along with some SF2000s as combi's.

[BNEA320]

Air Chathams buys Kiwi Regional Airlines





Kiwi Regional Airlines is using this newsletter to give all our subscribers advance warning of a major change to our services.







After 30th July, we will no longer be operating our existing scheduled services between Nelson, Dunedin, Hamilton and Tauranga - except for a group of flights at the end of August/start of September (which include a number of school sports teams) which we will let you know about soon.



Air Chathams, an existing airline with 5 aircraft, has purchased our aircraft and will be using it on the Whanganui-Auckland route from 1st August that Air NZ is stopping.



All of our flights before 30th July will still be operating as planned, and we urge you to make the most of the remaining time to book your Kiwi tickets. If you have Kiwi tickets for travel after 30th July, you will be given a full refund, OR - if you want to bring that trip forward - we ask you to call our reservations centre to make a rebooking.

[Ollie Onion]

Well, we could all see that coming. Another Wilson success story :ugh:

[BNEA320]

hard to compete with dodgy NZ & their highly illegal tactics (eg. Freedom Air)

[Corkey McFuz]

What do you mean BNEA320 ?

They didn't compete with anybody !

They flew odd routes with a (1) larger aircraft that simply didn't have, and would never have, the numbers. There was no way they were ever going to survive, don't kid yourself thinking otherwise under their current setup. Anyone who knows the NZ aviation industry knew this.


I will hand it to EW for closing it down properly before the receivers ever got involved.

[waren9]

ewan prolly wasnt that keen for another fraud conviction.

not sure what bnea320's beef is. nothing illegal about freedom air.

perhaps he could elaborate?

[BNEA320]

Freedom Air totally illegal but NZ got away with it.

[Water Wings]

Freedom Air totally illegal but NZ got away with it.
And yet they were never deemed to have breached the Commerce Act.

Protecting market share versus predatory pricing......hell of a grey area and there's a reason case law is so limited on it. What limited case law does exist, the Privy Council were quite clear that an established player is within their rights to compete aggressively against new entrants to a market - even selling below cost is not necessarily viewed as being illegal.

[waren9]

repeating yourself is not elaborating bnea320.

sounds to me like you've been saying it to yourself for long enough now you cant see any other way.

anyway, sorry kra has run out of cash. atleast they're making the changes in good time, and great news most everyone is keeping their job.

[BNEA320]

you cannot use your market power to run others out of business. Catch 22, is the others need to take the legal action 1st in most juristictions & lawyers cost money, big money in most cases. They always want to milk a case for as long as they can, so unless "others" have deep pockets, very hard to take on an "elephant" who also has govt support. Dodgy as hell.

[waren9]

so, you disagree with the privy council?

[Aerozepplin]

Freedom Air totally illegal

And also totally unrelated to the current failed business. "At least he had a go" doesn't mean much when everyone could see it was doomed to begin with. DN-QN as a flagship route with one non-RNP aircraft was a pretty big warning sign.


Edit: With that said, agree very much with waren9 that it's really good that it wasn't sudden, and that there's some options for continued work. So good on whoever managed to avoid a disaster.