View Full Version : Various Globals now...
FerrypilotDK
8th Mar 2015, 22:25
With there being XRS, 5000, 6000 and 7000 what is the training situation for initial?
All still considered the same type, just with differences training?
Is one variation preferable to do the initial type on?
Classic, XRS and 5000 were built with Honeywell SPZ8400 avionics and they are one common type with very minor differences training included in the initial or during a recurrent class.
The new 5000 and now the 6000 are manufactured with a Rockwell Collins Vision avionics package, so the XRS is no longer manufactured as its increased range capabilities are rolled into the new 6000.
The new 5000 and 6000 are still a BBD700 type rating but offered with much more extensive differences training due to the new flight deck.
The 7000 and 8000 will be a totally new type rating due to the fly-by-wire side sticks etc.
Average cost annual 6000 recurrent class (two classes) at Flight Safety is approximately $55,000, with the initial differences course between Honeywell and Rockwell Collins priced at approximately $25,000. There is also now an approved differences class for Rockwell Collins to Honeywell flight decks.
josephfeatherweight
9th Mar 2015, 02:57
I heard a rumour the "classic" (XRS/Honeywell 5000) to Vision differences course has increased in duration from 4 days to 2 weeks? Any truth in said rumour?
this is my username
9th Mar 2015, 06:33
Does that mean that if you are doing an initial for a 5000 with Honeywell avionics you do a Vision initial and then differences to the older avionics, or can you still do an initial on Honeywell?
FerrypilotDK
9th Mar 2015, 09:14
Thanks all....55,000 for a recurrent!? Surely you meant initial (I bloody hope!)
GlenQuagmire
9th Mar 2015, 09:51
If you do an initial on the vision, can you do a differences to the classic?
Recurrent for a classic is about 25k. By the way, does anyone understand the reasoning behind loading the recurrent training for individuals as much as FS and CAE do? I had a quote for 37k recently - they dropped to 25 with a minimal haggle but why ask for so much cash in the first place?
If you fly both variants is there any point in doing a vision recurrent? Just seems like a bundle of extra money for nothing.
Above The Clouds
9th Mar 2015, 11:37
An initial with CAE is $94000 that includes the vision differences :mad:
DCThumb
10th Mar 2015, 09:16
I understand that to retain both Honeywell and Vision, in EASA land, you have to alternate recurrents between the 2.
GlenQuagmire
10th Mar 2015, 14:32
where do you understand that from? I can't find it anywhere. Aviation is too bloody complicated..
(found it now but only as a recommendation from Bombardier. If anybody knows where its mandated can you let me know)
GlenQuagmire
10th Mar 2015, 22:08
You don't need to alternate. FCL710(b) If the variant has not been flown within a period of 2 years following the differences raining, further differences training or a proficiency check in that variant shall be required to maintain the privileges, except for types or variants within the single-engine piston and TMG class ratings.
Not that it makes much difference. I intended to renew on whichever one I hadn't flown much but the truth is I will renew on whichever one is cheapest..
GIVSP
14th Mar 2015, 20:00
That price was for a full service annual recurrent training package - so included 2 recurrent training events plus you can visit as many times as the sim and instructors are available - some contract pilots just need to maintain landing currency during the year.
SayHeading
15th Mar 2015, 09:44
Initial for 5000/6000 with Bombardier in Montreal is approx. $ 75000 and with FSI in Columbus $ 95000!
SpoolingUp
15th Mar 2015, 15:58
I looked at doing a 'backwards' differences course from Global Vision to Global Classic (Honeywell) - In EASA land this is absolutely not possible (Verboten) and I would have to have done a full Global Classic Initial.
In FAA Land, you can do a 'backwards' differences course between Global Vision and Global Classic, but you can then only fly an FAA registered aircraft and cannot then subsequently transfer it across to an EASA Land aircraft.
In terms of holding both Type Ratings i.e.; Classic and Initial - I have never seen anything written down but I recently did some work business with the Bermudan Authorities for a Challenger pilot who held both 604 and 605 Type Ratings, and they would not validate him on the 604 if he had not done a full 604 Recurrent in the previous 2 years - they also pointed out to me that this would be the same for the 605 - ergo, if you want to satisfy the Bermudan authorities and probably some of the others - it seems sensible (and dare I say it at the risk of being verbally abused and mangled) and professional to do one every other year
However, I suspect some people's Ops Manuals will say you have to do one each year and therefore you will have to do 2 Recurrent's each year for both Classic and Vision - and if you move onto the 7000/8000 then you could be onto 3 a year!
At that stage you've probably been flying far too long and its time to give up!
Propellerpilot
15th Mar 2015, 18:47
Well, I could only imagine that this so, because a differences course for the classic for Vision-only Pilots does not exist atm. If Bombardier or CAE would offer an approved classic differences course, this is what you should be doing and not an initial type rating. I am sure that they would offer this, if enough demand for this should arise in the future - as long as classic versions of the AC are flown, this will possibly be the case.
Maybe all this is a good reason NOT to progress to the Vision, as sooner or later there might be more demand on the classic again. Rather wait and move on to the 7000, because it is a different type.
One other thing I have noticed, is that many staffers don't even have a clue about all this and many understand the Vision being a completly seperate type rating and treat it as such, which it certainly is not. After not even 3 years, it has become quite rare to get a job offered on the Vision without having any actual practical experience with it.... even with thousands of hours on the classic.
CaptainProp
15th Mar 2015, 22:10
So the 7/8000 will be a different rating to the current vision models?
CP
Propellerpilot
15th Mar 2015, 22:22
Yes absolutely - apart from the larger dimensions, limitations, the 7000/8000 will have too many "differences" e.g. different powerplant, fly by wire etc.
josephfeatherweight
15th Dec 2015, 12:02
Resurrecting an old thread - I'm interested in the legalities and regulations surrounding "differences courses", in particular the Global Classic/XRS to Vision. Just interested in the FAA Part 91 case - do both the captain and copilot need to have done the differences course? I imagine there are insurance ramifications and I'm also aware that is would certainly not be ideal if both crew had not completed the training, but interested in the rules surrounding differences courses. I understand that your licence will still only have BD700 on it - would appreciate any thoughts!
Bringing this up again.
Is anyone (yet) offering a differences course from the Vision to 5000 classic? (EASA)
A full initial seems crazy.
g450cpt
1st May 2016, 02:23
Resurrecting an old thread - I'm interested in the legalities and regulations surrounding "differences courses", in particular the Global Classic/XRS to Vision. Just interested in the FAA Part 91 case - do both the captain and copilot need to have done the differences course? I imagine there are insurance ramifications and I'm also aware that is would certainly not be ideal if both crew had not completed the training, but interested in the rules surrounding differences courses. I understand that your licence will still only have BD700 on it - would appreciate any thoughts!
If you are only interested in FAA part 91 regs then the SIC doesn't even need a type rating much less a differences course. As long as he has 3 TOs and Landings in the AC and has appropriate FAA license i.e. multi engine land, instrument. Insurance will be a different story, they will want formal sim within the last year.
BizJetJock
2nd May 2016, 12:48
As long as he has 3 TOs and Landings in the AC and has appropriate FAA license
And have flown the aircraft assymetric within the last 12 months, and have knowledge of all the systems and procedures.
It's this sort of disinformation that led to so many N reg aircraft being non compliant that the rest of the world insisted on the FAA implementing SIC type ratings for international ops, as well as the insurance companies mostly wanting proper sim training.
Yes ECFT Dubai
Still in the waiting for approval stage...
Globalflyboy
14th Feb 2018, 14:28
Do you need to do a difference course when you did the vision initial with the base training on the xrs and you want to fly on the xrs? Or are you then rated for both in easa land?
GlenQuagmire
14th Feb 2018, 20:36
Do you need to do a difference course when you did the vision initial with the base training on the xrs and you want to fly on the xrs? Or are you then rated for both in easa land?
As far as I know, if you do an initial on the Vision you cant do base training on the classic as there is no difference course in easa land. So no, you are not rated on both, and may not have completed the requirements to be rated on the vision!
Happy to be put right if things have changed.
Giggity..
galaxy flyer
14th Feb 2018, 21:00
And have flown the aircraft assymetric within the last 12 months, and have knowledge of all the systems and procedures.
It's this sort of disinformation that led to so many N reg aircraft being non compliant that the rest of the world insisted on the FAA implementing SIC type ratings for international ops, as well as the insurance companies mostly wanting proper sim training.
True, dat!
GF