Runway excursion by DL MD-80

[bubbers44]

A better way would be to start with l.6 reverse as recomended, not going to full reverse. Now if the rudders can't maintain centerline reduce reverse until the rudder can. If you feel this isn't enough to stay on the runway you have two choices. Continue off the side or at least try opposite reverse because that is all you have left at this point.

[ManaAdaSystem]

bubbers,

I suggest you write to Boeing and tell them their procedures and recommendations are wrong.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

It's a good job he's retired.

[Spooky 2]

I know the pilot who is on the Boeing accident investigation team has many thousands of hours in the MD80/DC9 series. I'm sure he would like to here from you as well.

[skyhighfallguy]

great spooky

have him comment, be sure to read our posts carefully and point out that assymetric reverse thrust was applied at touchdown. we are offering a thought on how to handle things when other methods don't work.

[Spooky 2]

I doubt that he will comment outside the borders of officialdom and not being a DC9/MD80 guy myself it's all a mystery to me. I don't recall ever hearing of this regarding the 727? Different design I guess.

[stilton]

I've flown the MD80 and the B727.


Rudder blanking simply wasn't an issue on the 727, it had a huge vertical fin and very effective rudder, much, much bigger than the MD80 and was not affected by any amount of reverse, its handling qualities were simply superb.


The -80 was entirely different, the tail was not much bigger than the DC9 with far bigger engines and the wing wasn't that much bigger either, it was really pushing the aircraft's capability.


It was really just a hodge podge of ideas with the minimal investment by MD, just like the DC10 with all its problems.


Rudder blanking was a serious issue and the test pilots knew it, their recommendations were and are to be taken very seriously and complied with.


They KNEW what they were talking about, unlike a few on this thread.

[bubbers44]

I was very happy to leave the MD80 and fly the B727. I agree, the md80 had a lot of problems as stated. Boeing aircraft, to me, could always be trusted so I stayed with Boeing the rest of my career. I know others feel differently so call it personal preference.

The rudder blanking problem on the MD80 isn't that hard to handle with proper reverse usage. This all or nothing answer using reverse with onset of rudder blanking reminds me of using an axe to trim the hedges when a trimmer would suffice.

[skyhighfallguy]

reference post number 36,symmetric application of reverse thrust (NOT).

The discussion got off track by misunderstanding what I was getting at. IF you use assymetric thrust you will turn, and if you use it incorrectly you will turn in the wrong direction.

[misd-agin]

Checking EPR reverse targets, and adjusting EPR splits, is fairly common on the S80/MD80 and other jets. It's a simple addition to your scan.

[bubbers44]

IF you use assymetric thrust you will turn, and if you use it incorrectly you will turn in the wrong direction.

This is how they ended up off the left side of runway shortly after touchdown. Too much left reverse not corrected immediately by decreasing left reverse to return to center line. This should be as instinctive a correction as using right rudder. Follow the recommended method of reducing all reverse now that you have corrected the first mistake to regain rudder control.