Photos in flight? Bad idea!

[mary meagher]

Have a look at NTSB accident report number CEN14FA265. Selfies in flight, inexperienced pilot flying in conditions for which he had no qualifications.

Combine these two ingredients, and its amazing there are not more accidents.
Leave the cameras behind, that's what I recommend to those flying for the first time. Let your girlfriend take the photo when your aircraft is on final approach, so it won't be your final approach!

[foxmoth]

There are enough devices you can set up and leave running, just needs mounting out of the way, most of these are video but if you want a still you can pick what you want. I certainly would not recommend using a handheld!

[Johnm]

I can't be bothered to take pictures from the cockpit, though passengers sometimes do.

[rnzoli]

or at least we shouldn't blind ourselves looking into the camera's flash during an NVFR flight in the pattern..... :ugh:

[9 lives]

Fly the way the pro would fly. If you were riding in the back as the paid passenger on a commercial flight, would you like to think that the pilots up in the front taking selfies, or any of a number of other distracting and totally un necessary activities?

Even before selfie capabilities, I saw new pilots ('cause old pilots really did not seem to care to) with all manner of gizmos in the cockpit, many of which were terribly distracting, just focus on the flying, and enjoy it....

[mad_jock]

Fly the way the pro would fly

Your in a dream world if you think it doesn't happen.

You just have to go to youtube to see all the vids done in the cockpit by commercial crews.

In fact I am happy to admit I took a few shots in the cruise of the FO flying so he could send them to his granddad the other week.

And when doing photo survey we quite often fly the plane while hanging it on its ear in a side slip to get the wing out the way sometimes with the door off and take photo's at the same time.

[PA28181]

Let your girlfriend take the photo when your aircraft is on final approach, so it won't be your final approach!

Yep, only men should be allowed to fly.

Unless of course the pilot is from a well known Greek island in the Aegean.

[Cusco]

Have a look at NTSB accident report number CEN14FA265.

Well NTSB denies all knowledge of this report:

Any other identifying details to allow me to read the report?

Hot link perhaps?

Cusco

EDIT Disregard: Found it.

[PA28181]

From the report.

A review of the pilot’s logbooks did not show that he met the currency requirements for flight in instrument meteorological conditions or night flight with passengers.

Probably more to do with it than selfies?

[Pace]

Fly the way the pro would fly
Your in a dream world if you think it doesn't happen.
You just have to go to youtube to see all the vids done in the cockpit by commercial crews.
in fact I am happy to admit I took a few shots in the cruise of the FO flying so he could send them to his granddad the other week.
And when doing photo survey we quite often fly the plane while hanging it on its ear in a side slip to get the wing out the way sometimes with the door off and take photo's at the same time.

Totally agree with MJ on this one commercial pilots do all manner of things especially on boring bits of the cruise from taking pictures to doing the crossword.

From memory I think the FAA made it illegal to use any electronic device which was not specific and needed for the flight and as such a camera or mobile phone would be illegal.

But then there are many boring parts of the flight where usually phones are used to capture various sky scapes.
On the approach to landing or takeoff when a pilots full attention is required for the job in question its not too clever to be snapping away but even then out of sight out of mind and with the autopilot its very tempting to grab a stunning scene even with commercial pilots :ok:

Pace

[Loggerheads]

It's a very hot (http://qz.com/233165/the-pilots-of-instagram-beautiful-views-from-the-cockpit-violating-rules-of-the-air/) topic for some. Possibly getting some commercial guys invites to meetings without tea and biscuits.

Some great pics, thanks guys.:ok:

[gasax]

Peruse this forum (military) and you'll find the report of the 'flight excursion' of a personnel flight back from Afghanistan where the aircraft narrowly missed the scenery after departing from the high level cruise due to the electric seat being motored forward and the camera sitting on its arm contacting the sidestick......

Apparently there is now some guidance on non-essential items in the cockpit.....

[mad_jock]

Poor navigators

[Genghis the Engineer]

The pilot was also carrying pax out of 90 day rule, and flying IMC without an IR.

On the whole, the selfie was nothing more than the final straw.

G

[stevelup]

Fly the way the pro would fly. If you were riding in the back as the paid passenger on a commercial flight, would you like to think that the pilots up in the front taking selfies, or any of a number of other distracting and totally un necessary activities?

Well yes, of course they do. (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pilots+of+instagram&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=-E7SVPbdKMPW7Qb-oIDABw&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=864)

[Steve6443]

The pilot was also carrying pax out of 90 day rule, and flying IMC without an IR.

Hmmm.... the very first paragraph states:

. The instrument rated pilot and one passenger were fatally injured

[Pace]

You won't believe what commercial pilots get up too ) some stages of flight are very boring :ok:

Pilot Gets Fired for Letting Two Hot Girls Fly His Plane - Mandatory (http://www.mandatory.com/2014/12/15/pilot-gets-fired-for-letting-two-hot-girls-fly-his-plane/)

Pace

[9 lives]

Okay, okay, I suppose things have changed since I flew corporate right seat in the '80's - I guess things have changed...

Hey, new pilots, if you get yourself in trouble 'cause you were photographin' when you was 'sposed to be flyin', no sympathy from me!

[mad_jock]

No i don't think they will have.

There are some that would have a complete sense of humour crisis if a camera came out. And a hissy fit if anything other than ops manuals were read.


And there is another group which thinks a stimulated mind is a benefit to flight safety.

This case though I don't think would have changed without a camera being used

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Oh come on! No piccies while flying? Because someone lost it in IMC while having a camera on board? I have albums from my trusty Canon AE1 and I kept rammed between the Chippy's seat and cockpit wall (the massive scratches on the 'leather' camera cover testify!). And megabytes of memories from later cameras. Just make sure you fly the aeroplane at all time while taking the pics!

Like Mad Jock I've had the aeroplane in all sorts of attitudes to get the wing out of the way, etc (a deep slip was common). I'd slide the canopy back a couple of notches so not shooting through perspex, roll wings vertical keeping the speed up, and use the rudder to keep it there as long as possible while taking the picture, always ready to ditch the picture and take back the stick if I though it necessary.

Gentle turns could be easily maintained using rudder alone, leaving the hands free for the camera and plenty of time to compose the picture. I got a lovely shot of the summit of Snowdon like that! Here's Bardsey Island:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/GZK6NK/Bardseyres.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/GZK6NK/media/Bardseyres.jpg.html)

And here's one I took out of the front, landing at Liverpool:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/GZK6NK/DSC03621res-3_zps9a948cc5.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/GZK6NK/media/DSC03621res-3_zps9a948cc5.jpg.html)

Flying is far too much fun not to record it for looking back on. Just don't be a berk - remember that no.1 is FLY THE AEROPLANE!

[Armchairflyer]

(@SSD et al.) Agreed, airborne pictures of sky and scenery are a pleasure to watch.
But selfies? WTF?

(Besides, at least in my case, a selfie while flying would indeed be a risk to my "airworthiness". Not so much because of the immediate dangers of making one during flight, but I am so extremely handsome even when on the ground -- being exposed to the unearthly attractiveness of me while flying would probably blind me or drive me insane :E)

[FleurDeLys]

On the other hand, I have c2700hrs in my book, stopped flying 15 years ago, and don't have a single photo to remind me that any of it ever even happened. :-(

[MizzFlyer]

From Pace
From memory I think the FAA made it illegal to use any electronic device which was not specific and needed for the flight and as such a camera or mobile phone would be illegal.

Time to dig out Grandad's Brownie 127 (http://www.brownie-camera.com/6.shtml) :)

MF

[Pace]

From memory I think the FAA made it illegal to use any electronic device which was not specific and needed for the flight and as such a camera or mobile phone would be illegal.

MizzFlyer

I use Rocket route which is a brilliant programme for the money and have tha airways charts. I also have that backed up on my I phone 6 and its great to watch the jet I fly chugging along the upper airways as well as all the other programmes needed for flight backed up on the I phone as well as the I pad :ok:
Who knows both I pads could go down then I would be left with my phone for approach charts etc ??

as such it would be argued as a vital piece of equipment needed for the flight :ok:

Just because I accidentally hit the movie button or picture button :E not my fault ))

Pace

[mary meagher]

Shaggy Sheep Driver, Number one is keep a bloody good lookout! Which while you are pratting about trying to take photos with a loose camera, I doubt very much you can manage singlehanded.. I havn't got a problem with TWO pilots, one to fly the plane, the other to take the photos. But the scars on your camera case imply it wasn't secure in the cockpit. Ok, only a K13 glider, but a newbie in the front seat let his camera slide down behind the stick, which caused a nasty accident.

And of course air to air photography really requires experts. Not enthusiastic amateurs alone in the aircraft who should behave responsibly.

[Maoraigh1]

I thought solo glider pilots had to prove cross country flights by photographing turning points.(50 years and 5 weeks since last in a Swallow)

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

And of course air to air photography really requires experts. Not enthusiastic amateurs alone in the aircraft who should behave responsibly.

Mary, that is utter and absolute tosh. On at least 2 levels, maybe 3.

Expert at what, by the way?

Are you a retired school teacher, by any chance? ;)

[ecosse]

I am a student pilot and i agree we must pay attention look out etc...

but..

we are aloud to fiddle with radios,nav systems altimeters do calculations on maps etc etc..

so why not take a picture with a camera? no less safe in my book than fiddling with any of the above.

depends on circumstances i suppose.

[mad_jock]

You must be joking about the expert bit.

First did it when I was hour building for Cpl.

Then had to do heaps of it while flying instructor mainly to stop the punter from barfing.

And the few jobs I did do doing it, it was 20 mins showing how the camera worked and then sent on my way with a load of lats and longs and instructions that I had to be not above 600ft agl over the top of the sites when I took them.

I wasn't joking when I was saying about hanging the aircraft on its ear at 600ft AGL with the door off taking photo's.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I think Mary would have a purple fit if she knew what we got up to while meat bombing.... All in the interests of customer satisfaction, of course! :ok:

[Pace]

If you have an artistic eye and appreciate beauty which we often see while flying it seems crazy to me and frankly far too anal an attitude to tell pilots not to take a photo.

Many flights become forgotten, a distant memory and a photo or movie is one way of capturing those memories for later years.
For me a pilot who takes photos means that guy/gal enjoys and appreciates what they see and frankly I have no time for the do gooders who dictate otherwise.

i Scuba dive and love underwater photography and try to make what i would cal creative photography with the undersea world, light and creatures

It the same with flying always carry a camera or a phone as one scene of light may change in minutes and be gone.

You need to be individual and a bit colourful in life and maybe a tiny bit rebellious or you become grey and anal :ugh:
It was Sir Douglas Bader who said the law is for fools to obey and wise men to question and a little bit of individuality makes the world a far more interesting place.

Mary reading your writings you are far from grey and anal but colourful and full of amazing stories and experiences so I am slightly puzzled at your anti Photo stance :ok:

Pace

[thing]

I have taken the odd video on the iPhone and photo while airborne, and it is a rare event. I always get the RH seat to do it. Can't see what the problem is.

However I was at Breighton for a fly in maybe one or two years ago and parked up next to a 172 that had no less than four Go Pros set up in the cockpit. I mean, four Go Pros, what's that all about? I know we pilots are supposed to be egomaniacs but sheesh.

'This is one of me from the rear flying the aircraft. This is one of me from the side flying the aircraft. This is one of me from the front flying the aircraft.'

Get a life.

[9 lives]

I mean, four Go Pros, what's that all about?

It'll make the AAIB/NTSB investigator's job much easier.....

[thing]

You could almost have an Imax crash with four cameras.

[rnzoli]

Mounted cameras are very useful for post-flight debriefs for low-hour (<350) pilots.Not only for crashes, but for anything that didn't go well - poor landings, mistakes in ATC comms etc. Quite often the learnt lessons are shared, so it helps others not to repeat the same mistakes. Look up for example Flight Chops on Youtube, he also uses 3-5 cameras, but of course ,not all aimed at him :) instead they capture the cockpit, instrument panel, hands & legs, sideways, from tail to nose etc. So I dare to say that fixed cameras add to the overall safety of private flying. :ok:

Taking photos with a handheld camera is a greater risk, but passangers appreciate it, and they fly for fun too, there has to be a picture from their flight. Yes, there is a increased risk with them (dropping on the floor, jamming control, dividing attention), but c'mon, navigating with a paper map, folding it left right center is just as much distraction from wathing oncoming traffic or the airspeed. So if you can't prioritize flying and navigating, something else will catch you anyway. :=

[stevelup]

Get a life.

Each to their own. Flying (for most people on here) is a hobby.

This guy obviously has filmmaking as a hobby and clearly enjoys capturing multi-camera video and editing it.

I really can't see what the issue is with combining the two, and it's a bit patronising to say he should get a life.

I'm sure you do some stuff in your spare time that would bore other people!

[thing]

I am old and allowed to be miserable. :) It's the narcissistic, selfie society we have become that annoys me. I can see the point of camera(s) to take pictures of the view but these were all mounted so that the cameras were filming the cockpit. If they were for the purposes of an instructional video then fair enough I'm out of order.

I'm sure I do stuff that would bore the pants off of everyone else but I don't film it.

[Pace]

Thing

In some ways I think we are maybe talking on the wrong subject :ok: Maybe the thread should have been what do you do to kill time on long boring stretches between way points :E

Some do the sunday times crossword, some may flirt with the female in the right seat some may take pictures.

So its probably more a question of when its safe to take a picture or when taking a picture will distract you from a critical phase of flight.

i am sure there are some who flare to land with one hand on the yoke and the other holding a camera /phone :ugh:

The most interesting shots are taken low or against large cumulus clouds near sunset where the light intensity is not so great.
so the low shots are likely to be at a time when the pilot should have his full concentration on landing or taking off the approach and departure.

You also have to look at impressions that taking pictures gives to passengers ?
in my jet it does not give a good impression to the PAX to see the captain clicking away / its not professional especially in a private jet where the PAX arec more involved with the crew than in an airline where the crew are behind closed doors.
take my word for it Airline pilots do take pictures :E

flying private light aircraft for fun means the pictures are more acceptable to PAX and the non professional nature of the flight.

So really this is about safety and when its safe to take photographs or unwise to do so.

Into that mix comes the fact of how experienced the pilot is and it indeed may be the case that in rare circumstances the right pilot could flare the aircraft with one hand while filming with the other :ugh:

Pace

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

It's easy to ensure you don't drop the camera, either onto the floor or lose it outside the aeroplane if shooting through an open canopy or window; keep the neck strap around your neck! That's what I did.

Cessnas, BTW, are great for aerial photography if you dis-assemble the door window strut - the window then swings right up 90 degrees, well out of the way.

[KandiFloss]

I have enjoyed reading this article, as I ... shock horror ... like to take pictures when I fly. I do it carefully, when the aircraft is trimmed out, etc, and no other 'traffic' is around, and certainly not at 'critical' phases of the flight. I like taking pictures when I fly, and as one poster said, it allows you to look back and re-enjoy what you saw during your flight. I have some beautiful pictures of the Shropshire hills last summer, and also one of me joining of the mile hile club ... (reaching 5280ft) ... not the naughty one ... tricky in a 152?! Actually ... I think that my version of the 'mile high club' is much more exciting than the one that a lot of people aspire to ... yaaaaaawn!


I do have to pull up two posters ... Pace ... you are a culprit! ... 'some may flirt with the female in the right seat' ... that would make me a lesbian ... assumptions ... assumptions!

[Crash one]

I have enjoyed reading this article, as I ... shock horror ... like to take pctures when I fly. I do it carefully, when the aircraft is trimmed out, etc, and no other 'traffic' is around, and certainly not at 'critical' phases of the flight. I like taking pictures when I fly, and as one poster said, it allows you to look back and re-enjoy what you saw during your flight. I have some beautiful pictures of the Shropshire hills last summer, and also one of me joining of the mile hile club ... (reaching 5280ft) ... not the naughty one ... tricky in a 152?!

I was about to fall off my perch there for a minute.
Where are them blood pressure pills?

[KandiFloss]

' I was about to fall off my perch there for a minute.
Where are them blood pressure pills? ' ... ha ha ...fantastic :-D !

[Crash one]

At 75 memories and imagination are all that's left.:{

[Pace]

:EI do have to pull up two posters ... Pace ... you are a culprit! ... 'some may flirt with the female in the right seat' ... that would make me a lesbian ... assumptions ... assumptions!

Kandifloss

Apologies I was talking from my perspective :ok: But could be a Guy in the right seat being flirted with a woman in the left or even a Guy and a Guy or a Woman and a Woman or the family pet to some distorted mind :ok:
as to the Mile high club I am sure that happens to and is far more dangerous than taking pictures in many ways :ugh:

In my Seneca twin days I can remember flying low level along the islands and then up Loch Ness to Inverness in the height of the summer with a very attractive female co pilot who was very well endowed. In hot weather she had the habit of unbuttoning a number of buttons too many :) especially in turbulence it was very distracting :E and far more so than taking scenery pics out the window :) As for someone grabbing the joystick at critical stages of flight the mind boggles ))))

Only joking (the last bit joking)))

pace

[akaSylvia]

OK, so what about this guy:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9PNN6oIgAAXyfv.png

Warning, his video of their take-off plays obnoxious loud music: Instagram (http://instagram.com/p/ys6QKLBvcT/)

To be fair, the pilot in the right seat looks completely focused on the job at hand, so it's not clear to me that there's a safety issue. Nevertheless, I can't help but hope that the camera got sucked away.... :P

[thing]

Don't quite get what he's doing there, is he holding a camera out of the window on a pole? If he lost the camera it looks like it would go neatly into the left hand donk.

[akaSylvia]

Yes, that's what it looks like to me. Probably something like this?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY60N23DPys5JSXRYu5lV-wr1v0Bo-MV1-a3AoGh8Q6hQXhFDiF3AkQ0PmmiEhiuUgr9D91UmD&usqp=CAE

[Pace]

Thing

I think you are right his hand is out of the side window so one of those poles for Selfie extensions which is not a clever thing to do and as a Captain he should know better :(
if it did detach and go through the engine the bill would be $500 K {{ expensive picture and very irresponsible.
the Jet appears to be on a taxiway so I presume with engine running and not parked up with dead engine before flight. Plain stupid!

Pace

[Crash one]

Once on very short final with a female instructor who was definitely built to the original drawings, her seat back collapsed, lifting her and seat upright while flaring with one hand not the best idea, I should have taken a picture:ok:

[mad_jock]

there was a certain trilander Captain in the CI that used to smoke a pipe.

His habit was to knock it out on the side of the plane in flight.

One day the bowl came off and went into the prop which then fired it straight through the hull and out the other side.

Think it cost him a crate of beer to get fixed.

[KandiFloss]

Pace: ' In my Seneca twin days I can remember flying low level along the islands and then up Loch Ness to Inverness in the height of the summer' Ooooh ... interested in the Seneca ... would love to fly one of those! 'with a very attractive female co pilot who was very well endowed.' Well, we have to use everything to our advantage, thank goodness for Wonderbras, and 'chicken fillets'! 'In hot weather she had the habit of unbuttoning a number of buttons too many :) especially in turbulence it was very distracting :E and far more so than taking scenery pics out the window :) As for someone grabbing the joystick at critical stages of flight the mind boggles )))) ' Now, you're just being silly! It would have to be a pretty dumb pilot to get 'one of those' mixed up with the joystick?! Or maybe someone's just after a promotion? Hmmmmm :-)

[YODI]

PACE I watched the video above before it was deleted from Instagram, the video clearly showed the Captain doing the selfie thing while the aircraft was rotating, he in my opinion needs to be shot.

[150 Driver]

A thought for the Instructors following this thread, suggest you confiscate your student's smartphone before sending them off on solo flight.

It's very cool for the student to come back with the photo/selfie to show their friends but ...

(I can't believe I'm the only student to have done it !)

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Pace;

The CAA made a similar rule about PEDs in UK commercial cockpits, I just wish they'd make one banning the cameras in the SIM!!!

SND

[rnzoli]

suggest you confiscate your student's smartphone before sending them off on solo flight
I doubt this is a good idea, because the whole point of going solo is that you are able to prioritize and fly the airplane regardless of various temptations.

I worked with 2 instructors during my training. One didn't care about me taking quick photos on the downwind leg on my 3rd solo circuit practice. Half of those pics were useless, as I just shot them on a try-and-error approach, the other showed me focusing so strongly on flying the plane, my friends asked me: why are you so serious? I said I was waiting for the engine failure that we practiced for sooo many times... :)

The other instructor took photos about me before my solo flight, just to get that stuff behind us :)

Interestingly, in ground school, we were also educated on how to buzz something on the ground. The instructor explained that such low level flight manouvers are clearly illegal, very risky and therefore stupid, but if we ever want to try it, at least we should know how to avoid crashing. So he explained how to select the right speed not to stall out during the pull up, how to plan approach and the exit to avoid obstacles on the ground etc. Curiosity satisfied, we weren't so interested anymore in this topic afterwards, especially knowing how many extra things can kill us in low level manouvering.