Personal Health Limits

[londonblue]

A few weeks ago I had a pretty bad cold, but could contain it using Day Nurse. However, it got me thinking about flying whilst not well.

Personally I don't fly if I don't feel 100%, but that can lead to cancelled flights, and a bit of frustration. I then got to thinking, what criteria do other people use? For example, would you fly at the tail end of a cold, or wait for it to clear up completely, and what other criteria would you use to consider whether or not you feel fit to fly?

I guess I'm trying to work out if I'm a wimp or not...

[ChickenHouse]

I guess you can not be a wimp when cancel flying due to not feeling well.

My personal limit is quite clear: if I feel health limited, I don't fly. This is especially true for anything around a cold or similar. If I am on the ground on afterglow of a cold, I am unable to estimate wether issues with eye, nose or ear will cause trouble when in the cockpit - so I take the safety route and don't go flying.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Can I think straight enough to handle any difficult decisions.

Can I clear my ears?

Am I happy that any minor bugs I might have aren't infection or likely to deteriorate through the day?

Am I happy that I have stamina / ability to see it through to the end of the day, in the flying environment, are sufficient?


Unless I get four yeses in a row, I don't fly.

G

[localflighteast]

now that I'm not a student the answer to your question is a lot easier for me.

While I was learning I was always aware of the fact that I was screwing up my instructor's schedule as well as mine.

Now as well as G the E's questions, I also ask myself "Am I going to enjoy this flight"

if the answer is no , then I don't go

[Gertrude the Wombat]

would you fly at the tail end of a cold
I did once, never again.


I had a circuit to do with an instructor first, so I reasoned that if I was going to have any problems I'd have them on that circuit, as the pressure change is greater in the bottom 1,000' than any other 1,000', so this was a nice safe way to find out whether I was fit to fly.


No such luck. On the subsequent solo descent from 5,000' or so my ear started hurting like hell and I couldn't hear what was being said on the radio.

[sharpend]

Three points:

1. Flying with a cold can burst your eardrums. It can cause significant sinus pain such that you lose your sight!

2, The are old pilots and there are bold pilots. There are no old bold pilots.

3, If you don't have to fly, then don't.

[OhNoCB]

Similar to GtE, if I think I can think straight, won't deteriorate or have blocked ears etc I am usually happy to fly anyway. If privately then obviously I make sure that I will still enjoy it if I am not feeling 100% otherwise what's the point, if for work then I will go even if not 100% as long as I am confident that it won't have an adverse effect on my ability to concentrate and do a proper job, as above.

Only a few weeks ago I woke up feeling 99.9% fine but a little more tired than usual and went to work, and on the last sector of the day my colleague was pretty much down to single crew ops because I was sitting shivering with fever and splitting headache. It's a horrible place to be if you're not feeling right.

[Martin_123]

I'm very bad at handling cold, I have absolutely no strength, no focus and it takes me days to recover, I don't even go near a car.

[ChickenHouse]

I showed this thread to a friend of mine (x0.000+h, now retired and only on UL) and he commented - if you can walk to the plane, you can fly it. I do not share this thought, but it reflects - everything is possible and the ruler are you yourself.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I showed this thread to a friend of mine (x0.000+h, now retired and only on UL) and he commented - if you can walk to the plane, you can fly it. I do not share this thought, but it reflects - everything is possible and the ruler are you yourself.

Possibly just the attitudes of a different generation people aged under 50 these days, and I include myself, have a relatively strict view of personal risk that perhaps our parents and grandparents didn't have.

Just possibly that's why HPL was brought in as a mandatory subject in the late 80s, and nowadays all airline crews have to do regular CRM training. Some people of my generation are stupid about never taking any risks about anything, but conversely some people of my parents generation are too relaxed.

Drinking and driving anybody?

G

[ChickenHouse]

Some people of my generation are stupid about never taking any risks about anything, but conversely some people of my parents generation are too relaxed.
Our ancestors called that courage - you trade personal risk for the possibility to reach new levels of insight into nature.
The inner driving force to explore, to follow curiosity and ultimately sacrifice your life for the pure knowledge is something missing almost completely today, at least in science. Sadly it survives in certain religious fight. It is also some kind of nasty decadence nowadays to ban progress by taking risk and replace it by don't even touch fully comprehensive coverage.
I can and will not judge wether our grandfathers did better, or we, but maybe simply both ways are fated to die only.

Back to the original issue. Is there a way to come narrower to a procedure to gradually learn what is acceptable by means of a fading cold & flying? Maybe take a safety pilot is one way, but what other is thinkable?

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Is there a way to come narrower to a procedure to gradually learn what is acceptable by means of a fading cold & flying?
A week since last symptoms works for me.

[JW411]

I got airborne one day from Benson in one of Mrs Windsor's Argosys. At about 200 feet, the flight engineer started screaming (and I mean screaming) and holding his hands over his ears. It was pretty obvious that he was not going to go very far so we told ATC that we were coming straight back.

I tried to climb up just a little but the screaming got louder. Luckily, the weather was good and the terrain wasn't limiting so we were able to fly a circuit at 200 feet and land successfully. Said flight engineer was rushed into the hands of the medics and they were just able to save his hearing.

Do not risk flying with a cold it is simply not worth it.

By the way, just about the most successful way of ruining your ears is to do a winch launch in a glider when you are bunged-up!

[Genghis the Engineer]

I don't see how we can, or should, have a universal procedure.

All human bodies are individual and different from all others, and there are numerous flavours of flight operations. You can't, for example, reasonably apply the same standards to an aerobatic flight in a high performance single, as to a sub-1000ft bimble in a microlight, and might reasonably apply different standards with and without passengers.


So, as aircrew, we should have learned to read and understand our own bodies, and to form our own conclusions. And, so long as it's clear we're not extracting the urine about it, other people should respect our decisions.




Back to a separate point. My grandfathers were able, brave men, who both served their country in war very well. But if either had chosen to risk other peoples lives through operating a vehicle in peacetime - surface or air - when not fully fit to do so, that would have been arrogant stupidity, not courage. (I have no idea if either ever did, please consider them in any case to be "generic grandfathers").

G

[Mariner9]

I don't fly if I'm paler before my flight than my pax typically are after.

[Pace]

I also think you need to consider whether you are single crew or multi crew?

Single crew be strict with yourself especially carrying PAX who are reliant on you.
If you have the remnants of a cold and have another pilot up front you will put up with more.

If you are flying commercially its your bread and butter and job and while I am not saying you will fly while your ill you might do with a slightly difficult ear after a cold or a slight headache if you have another pilot :E

Pace

[londonblue]

So it seems this wasn't such a stupid question after all. (I actually thought it was when I asked it.)

It also seems I'm no different to most other people, and am not being too cautious.

However, I do have a question for any commercial pilots. What do you do? Surely if you never fly when less than 100% you'd spend more time off sick than actually working?

[Pace]

Obviously a cold/flu can last a week or drag on for a month you cannot vanish from your work for a month because you still have remnants of a flu/cold

There are those who choose to fly and those who have to

If you fly for fun its not fun if you are not 100% and better to leave it to another day when you will enjoy the flight more

if you have to you don't have that luxury

Pace

[ChickenHouse]

A typical cold will get you off from work for about 2 weeks +/- days.

If you fly for fun in a small plane, it may take a couple of days more to get comfortable with pressure changes.
If you fly in an airliner, you are flying pressure cabin, so that is not really such an issue as in small planes. So, I do not see a difference to any other employee.

[alexbrett]

But airliners typically go to the equivalent of 5000-8000 feet, which are common altitudes for light aircraft so surely the same problems apply?

Having said that, I wonder why we don't see more cases of passengers having ear problems when flying with a cold...

[londonblue]

alexbrett

Both of those points were my next questions!

[Pace]

But airliners typically go to the equivalent of 5000-8000 feet, which are common altitudes for light aircraft so surely the same problems apply?

As a corporate jet pilot I agree and can testify to a 6000 foot cabin can be murder on blocked ears and very painful :ugh:

Pace

[MisterFred]

Having said that, I wonder why we don't see more cases of passengers having ear problems when flying with a cold...

The worst pain I ever experienced was from flying as a passenger with a cold. I've never had a problem with ascent, but descent can be murder. The one time I'm remembering I ended up staggering around a gate at Salt Lake International barely able to think, barely able to stand, stringing together more profanities than I normally utter in a year. Finally someone told me to just hold my nose and blow. Which had never entered my mind for some reason (yes, I know that's dangerous now). Pop, a flash of pain so intense my vision literally went white and maybe the eardrums perforated, maybe not (I didn't start bleeding from my ears...), but either way I had blessed relief. My ears still hurt, but simply being in moderate pain was such a huge improvement.

So yes, passengers suffer these problems!

Edit: Some people have Eustachian tubes more likely to get blocked up than others. For some rather unusual reasons, I suffered injury to my left Eustachian tube. Now that one clears pretty easily, but I still often have trouble with the right ear clearing. Makes me wonder how much nicer it would be to have both ears so incredibly easy to clear.

[mary meagher]

I remember a headline in an American newspaper that said "NAVY REPORTS DEAD PILOTS WERE FLYING WITH HANGOVERS"......

[tecman]

Flying when dead is incontrovertibly a bad thing, hangover or not :) The world is a poorer place as sub-editors bite the dust.

I do not fly with noticeable headcold or other acute symptoms but I don't buy the line that everyone has to be happy and totally healthy all the time to get through life, including life in aviation. Presumably most people recognize this view is a fantasy promoted by lifestyle TV programs and newspaper magazines (and phamaceutical and complementary medicine companies).

I don't want to go back to the situation where e.g a CFI could start the day with a strong coffee, a handful of BP pills and a ciggie or two, but I'm not about to get too precious when a recovering pilot makes an informed decision to fly. As others have noted, elements of that decison could involve the nature of the medical condition, class of operation, number of crew, prevailing weather, length of flight, etc. If you're a typical human, with more than a few years on the clock, you are going to have to get used to making these calls if you want to get off the ground. It doesn't hurt to do some thought experiments ahead of being faced with real situations - helps maintain some objectivity, in my experience.

[thing]

There's no hard and fast as tecman says. If it's a solo flight that is a more or less 'must do' (OK I know there's no such thing as a 'must do' in GA) like a servicing flight then if I was slightly under the weather I would make that call and do whatever my call was. If it's taking two non pilot friends to France for the day then other than fighting fit and on the ball is not an option.

[Andy_P]

now that I'm not a student the answer to your question is a lot easier for me.

While I was learning I was always aware of the fact that I was screwing up my instructor's schedule as well as mine.

Now as well as G the E's questions, I also ask myself "Am I going to enjoy this flight"

if the answer is no , then I don't go

Interesting. I am still a student, but if I am crook I wont fly, I try my best to give plenty of notice to the instructors but ultimately if your head is not in it then there is no point flying.

Last week my mother passed away, and I have made the conscious decision to cancel all training for now. I am fine, but I have my moments (usually at night when I have a glass of red or 2!). Given I am now at the point where I go out solo most of the time I figure its just not worth it. Its going to hurt my training, but it may well just end up with me dead if I am not on the game. I will pick it up again next week I think, and it may just mean an extra hour of dual flight to pick up where I left. A cheap price to pay I think.

The bonus with having down time, is that I am replaying a lot of stuff in my head now. I was doing steep turns fine under instruction, but not doing well out solo. I have since figured out my head was spending to much time in the cockpit rather than focusing on looking out and keeping the correct attitude. So maybe the downtime will actually save me money!

[skyking1]

It is good to have pilot friends for many reasons, including riding along with another to see for yourself.
Go out and sit right seat with the hood on and see how much fun you are having :D
I might go do pattern work with the sniffles, but no way am I going to go high with questionable sinuses.

[funfly]

I know this might sound silly, but I used to have a Go-NoGo check list.
Number of things on it including wind speed, cross wind, viz, cloud height etc. all in order for me to never take a decision based on 'well maybe it will turn out all right'.
One thing on my list was how I felt.
If everything ticked off I flew, if there was only one thing not ticked I didn't fly.

[Big Pistons Forever]

As an instructor I do not want to fly with students who are not feeling well. My experience is that the lesson is usually a waste of time for both of us. For personal flying I don't go up in my airplane if the weather is nasty or I am not feeling 100 % as it is supposed to be fun.

For work flying I have a job to do so it is a bit of a different story.

Before every training flight I explicitly ask the student 3 questions

1) Are you in all respects good to go ?

2) Is the aircraft in all respects good to go ?

3) Is the weather suitable for our flight ?

[skyking1]

I concur, I remember one hungover flight as a student that ended early and was a waste of everybody's time.

[ChampChump]

If I can drive to the airfield and not feel any worse than when I left the house, get the aeroplane ready and the go-no go criteria weather-wise are in my favour, I'll consider it.

Not completely facetiously, I have felt a great deal better after some gentle bimbling...it's that Champ effect. Should be available on the NHS.