Ryanair Non-Rated DEC

[Captain Elvis]

Hi All,

Is there anyone who could give me some information on Ryanair recruitment.

I have read the posts of the past but I understand things have changed recently, eg, direct employment with Ryanair.

I am specifically interested in Direct Entry Command. I am not rated on the 737-800 but I am currently a Captain on another Boeing Type (and Trainer) and thus meet the requirements set out on their website for Non-Rated Direct Entry Command.

So the Golden question,

What salary are they offering for DEC?
Will UK bases be available?
Is it still a 5/4 roster pattern?
Any other info would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

[skyflyer737]

I believe DEC UK based would net around £5000-£5500 per month after tax & pension deductions. If you are a contractor expect something similar.

UK bases are available but in Ryanair land you never know where you'll end up. You may be in luck as they need you and you have a (small amount of) negotiating power.

I think all UK bases are 5/4. In Euroland some bases are 5/3 and the pay varies but expect net around €5000-€5500. The UK contracts are worth considerably more.

Nothing is ever clear until you actually start and even then very little is 100% certain. Good luck!

[wind check]

Does this salary (very flexible salary depending if you are working max or you are on leave, sickness or stand bys) include your crewfood for 10+ hours duty? does it include your shirts and trousers? your parking card? your medical class 1? your simu check opc/lpc? :}:yuk:

Ryanair is suitable only for 19-30 years old people looking for a first job. The options afterwards are to live in asian or chineese countries for the rest of their career or to simply quit this industry.

[skyflyer737]

The salary does not include crew food. Having to take your own is a bit inconvenient but you can control your diet and it's not something I moan about.

No, it doesn't include car parking which costs at most airports around £250 a year. Nor does it include uniform which was something like £409 up front when I joined 10 years ago and now costs me about £70 a year.

Medical is about £170-£200 a year. Yes of course it includes your sim checks. No one at Ryanair 'pays' for their sim. Contractors have €4.50 per hour deducted from their gross pay as one of several tactics by Ryanair to persuade the tax man you are not an employee. They can deduct as much as they like- net pay is what counts.

All in, I pay about £500 a year more (excluding food) as a Ryanair pilot for all the above. Hardly a deal breaker when I am home every night and am on a 5/4 stable roster.

Is it perfect there? No. Could things be better? Yes. I am outside your suggested age ranges and it works nicely for me and my family.

[Mr Good Cat]

How much do they need non-rated DECs at the moment?

Would a 777 skipper with 10k+ hours at a legacy carrier get a look in?

Do you have to pay for the rating? If so, what sort of deductions are we talking about per month?

Many thanks if anyone can answer.

[RichT]

Mr Good Cat. I can't answer your question in any official capacity but I would say you would have a very good chance of getting in. As for the type rating I'm not sure if you would have to pay or they would pick up the bill. They did a couple of years ago for some DECs. If you have to pay I doubt that there would be any payback scheme. It would be you pay up front and thats it.

[despegue]

5000euro for a DEC on Medium Jet?!

Even the Turkish and Polish airlines pay 50% more after tax!

[Mr Good Cat]

Thanks for the info Rich.

[Mikehotel152]

Not according to PPJN Despegue.

[alkor]

Turkish pays at least twice the amount. I think tax is 5% But you have to live there. Roaster 6/1/6/2 roughly.

not sure about polish.

Btw:capt elvis; did you apply already?

Cheers

[despegue]

Corendon: 7200 euro after tax base BRU
Pegasus: around 8000 euro after tax base SAW commutable
Sunexpress: basic 6300 euro after tax PLUS Per diems.


What FR is paying is absolute crap, and less than an FO earns where I work, for half the hours ( and we take as much bloody fuel as we want:8)

Ps. depone, TK is desperate for DEC,has been for years. But you DO fly A LOT ( not bound by EASA) and B737/A320 is NOT commutable.

[Penworth]

5-4-5-4 at Ryanair or 6-1-6-2 at Turkish. Give me quality of life and a decent work life balance over higher pay any day of the week.

[Callsign Kilo]

Money can be crap outside UK & Ireland. Base pay agreements are 'negotiated' at management level with a pilot representive from the base. Not much negotiation takes place to be perfectly honest.

An example of a southern european base average net pcm is €6K. You're probably talking an extra €12K gross a year plus allowance for training role (LTC). Nothing else provided outside pension contribution, which is minimal.

5/4 is great but if you're commuting then it isn't 5/4. I'm leaving as it just isn't worth it anymore. Know quite a few who are happy and enjoy the security/roster. Fairly certain ALL bases are 5/4 now. Bags of opportunity for training positions etc due to growth and attrition.

For DEC they obviously prefer rated with NG time however they have been providing the rating as needs must. It's bonded but not sure for how long. Best of luck, there are some great guys in the airline. Always enjoyed my days out going into some 'interesting' places. Has the potential to be a bloody good place to work, but alas in many respects......

[wind check]

oh yeah that's great to be back home every day man (you should have worked at the post office or in a bank), but when you're on earlies you wake up at 3-4 am and you come back home at 2pm and when you are on lates you go to work at 11 am and come back well after midnight. You do that during 5 days in a raw, no water provided by your employer, while on duty, you bring your own sandwich or a cheap unhealthy microwave food. On summer time you are forced to work, there is absolutely no way that you can be with kids and wife on holidays, you'll take your forced holidays in winter time, what a lifestyle!
Your terms and conditions are so bad that you MUST go to work even if you are sick, because your basic salary is zero or below your monthly bills.
And it's crazy to see people happy to pay for their class 1 medical certificate, parking card, shirts and any other expenses. May I ask you how much you payed for your epaulettes/stripes?

[despegue]

Worst thing is that some Captains there are obviously so badly brainwashed that they actually think they have a good deal:ugh::rolleyes:

[Callsign Kilo]

Despegue

Do you understand the difference between gross & net? Just asking, don't want a paranoid backlash suggesting I'm some sort of FR drone on the defensive.

Additionally, wind check - if you don't like it, don't read the thread. I tend to turn my back on things that piss me off. Do you get some sort of perverse kick trolling FR threads :ugh:

[Push to talk]

One has to realize that with Ryanair the conditions and pay never go up. Management might claim and say they are. And even ventilate this in the media, but they simply aren't. As time goes on you will always have less money in your pocket to spend and deteriorating conditions. It has always been like that at least the last decade.

You might get or have a 5/4 roster now, but that for sure isn't guaranteed and might be changed tomorrow if the company wants. Thats it might be in your contract doesn't matter. The contract is for you to have to stick to and for them to change and do with as they like, when they like. In many contracts the small print already talks about a possible variable roster in the summer and the company surely wants to go to unpaid leave in the winter. Ryanair's intentions and future are and were always in the small print.

And for the base you have or will get for now is also nothing certain. They can change that when they like and to where they like with collaterally possibly your pay reducing then as well as your new base might, and most likely will, have a lower salary for your position as you had before! The pressure of uncertainty is uncomfortable and most of the time sooner or later an unwanted change will appear on your doorstep.

And why people get bases they want or possibly get a fair deal when they join now? Because Ryanair is short of pilots! But as soon as they have enough again and/or pilots have no other place to really go to they will show their real face again and you might find yourself at the sharp end of their blade and regret your choice for Ryanair.

Be careful if you want to go into this lion's lair and realize what you get yourself into. What appears to be ok now, might turn ugly quickly sooner or later! It often does with Ryanair, one way or the other and your conditions and/or pay will go down.

Thing to also think of is what does the competition offer and what is the lesser of two evils for you.

This is all of course just my opinion.

[despegue]

Callsign Kilo,

Yes, I,do know the difference... And I do know that 5000euro net for an experienced Captain is ridiculous. Especially when you even have to pay for your own coffee..:ugh:.

Other airlines might offer the same as Basic, but in addition, you get Christmas bonus, 13th. Month, holiday bonus, extra legal pension, insurances etc.
What do you get extra when flying the Harp ? And please don't say " everyday at home" a lot, if not most, people do commute within FR.

[wind check]

I guess the €5000 euros is an average based on a 12 months year, it will indeed slightly increase during July and August logging 100 hours per month and it will decrease up to (or near) zero in winter while you are forced to take your leave. Note also that your pension is zero, once you are 65 you'll be forced to live under a bridge.


Let's be truthful! you are treated like a slave and you are happy with that.

...so, will you tell us how much you payed for your epaulets??

[highfive]

Little feedback regarding the origional question.

Has anyone had any contact from Ryanair with regds their ad in Flight last year for DEC ?

I didnt apply and am just curious. Im based overseas, get a package well and truly beyond anything on offer in europe. However, its not home, and the pollution is a eye opener.

[fulminn]

let's make it easier.
5/4 everywhere except ALGHERO in summer.
Contractor capt 100 hrs 12k euros floating-> 14k euros
contractor FO 100 hrs 7k euros floating > 9k euros

Direct FR contract capt ITALY 100 hrs 7500 euros
Spain 7000-7500 euros
UK 5000-6000k pounds

direct Fr contract FO italy 100 hrs 5000 euros
spain 4500 euros
UK 3500 pounds

and yes 5-4 roster and the chance to change my roster as long as i find a colleague willing to fly my day 1 or 5 make me able to go to Ny or whatever I want for a weekend without any problem or an even easier 4 days in europe....
I'm based at home with 14days off per month plus 1-2-3 stby makes 17 day doing whatever I want at home with family, gf, friends..

Yes guys go to china :mad: on triple7 or go in dubai....I'll follow you after!!:ok:

[DADDY-OH!]

How do you get to be a UK-based directly employed FR DEC?

[alkor]

Fulminn: numbers you gave; after tax for direct FR contract i presume?

[wind check]

Fulminn, I love your figures based on 100 flying hours p.m, that is very realistic :D:}
I know Contract FOs who have taken home over €7000 after tax on a normal summer months. Captain's hourly rate is 50% higher. Do the maths. I suspect they're all intelligent enough to know to put money aside for the quieter months!
How can you invest any potential extra money in a serious pension plan with such a precarious job? Banks will never trust in you. Not even Bernard Madoff would have made a deal with a Ryanair slave. Those summer months incomes are just helping to cover the hard winter season, when all Ryanair Boeings are parked 24 hours a day for a few months.

Regarding those take home figures for self employed contractors, do they really pay all the taxes that they should pay, especially after 2 years? Probably not.:oh:

[172_driver]

Be wary about some of the numbers given here

There is no standard FR contract. All bases have different numbers. The local deals for tax/social insurance vary and will have an impact on take home pay. Recent FR contracts for FO's in mainland Europe as low as 18 000 Euro/year for FO < 1500 hrs. Even with allowance + sector pay it will be far less than fulminn's 4500-5000 !!!!!

For Contractos (Storm/Brookfield). Numbers are going down because the times are over when you could put up a company in Dubai/Malta/Isle of Man and skip out on income taxes. The times are also over when you could pay the ridiculously low Irish PRSI (Pay Related Social Insurance) of 4 %. Contractors who have been here a while can live on grandfathers rights for a few more years, but new joiners can't avoid it.

A colleague spoken to recently said she's got a retention rate of 46 % on a normal month, complying with taxes. That is, 46 % of what your company invoices Brookfield actually ends up in your wallet. Do the maths yourself; [€ per hour] x [Hours per anum] x 0.46.

This is the future. What your hear today is from people that's been living the good years under dubious tax agreements. Wait 10 years and see what the average FO will say they per month.
There are still people out boasting and bragging about how awesome money they make as contractors.

So listen to salesmen like Depone and fulminn all you like, but use caution before you accept their numbers of the bat. Better ask all pilots in Ryanair, old as well as new for their facts. Everyone has a different situation.

[wind check]

Depone thanks for your prompt reply. Of course Ryanair is a strong company, no doubt about it but by precarious I was refering to Ryanair's terms and conditions, base unstability, irregular amount of income and possibility to get sacked with no valid reason.

20 years ago your colleagues were offered a more decent contract, especially those who came from Aer Lingus, but things are completely different now. Just until a few years ago most of Ryanair brookfield pilots were not paying any tax but the Eu and irish authority changed the rules and the game is over.

Flying 900 hours per year, 10-11 hours of non stop duty per day is really not good for your health, especially with 5 days ON in a raw, going to bed well after midnight or having to wake up at 4am depending if you are on lates or on earlies. That's why the majority of Ryanair pilots and cabin crews are under 35 years old.

[lederhosen]

Ryanair creates a great deal of fear for the current and would be future pilots of legacy and other european airlines. With a couple of exceptions (e.g. Easyjet, maybe Wizz) no one really seems to have an answer to their business model. Lufthansa, Air France and others have stated this publicly as their reason for needing to set up cheaper alternatives.

The obvious benefits with Ryanair are that they are likely to survive and continue growing. So your job security (insovency related) and opportunities for F/Os to become a captain are a given. The down side is that Ryanair's out and out Taylorist (think Ford conveyor belt) approach makes you a small cog in a very big wheel. It is not difficult to think of reasons to dislike them and their business practices. But unless you win the lottery and get taken on directly by a legacy carrier there are sadly a lot worse places to be.

[172_driver]

Depone, fair point!

Just the number you've mentioned are in the high range, in my experience.
5000 net pcm, is not that far from reality in some bases. 7000 pcm for FO, whilst true, doesn't happen often and certainly not for the normal 2+ year FO who is paid back 200-300 euro, tops, in expenses each month. Rest is taxed.


The reality is the FR is a great place for some people, a nightmare for others

Sums it up well, in words w/o the numbers

[highfive]

Debating the relative salaries available is purely academic until you pass the interview. Ask your work mates who have experienced it there, most companies now have ex Ryanair guys employed.

Still no one heard from submitting their DEC application?

Do all none rated pilots have to pay the €29000 for type course? Bugg#% that !

( Not Orange, check your pm's)

[torallin]

What a bunch of crap....... There is no Microwave oven on board, and what you bring is up to you. Try the crew meals in China........

If you start lates at 2pm you finish well before midnight. Some days long some short. You at least dont sit 4 hours waiting for pushback on every flight like in China. Stop spreading ****. And it is spelled in a ROW, not RAW. Raw is how the Japanese eat their fish.

Good luck.

[Pin Head]

Time to command please for an experienced fo?
10000hrs TT
1900 on type?

Thank you

[november.sierra]

The criteria for new joiners to be considered for command upgrade are 1 recurrent sim graded at good or better and having spent 1 full winter in the company. This means you can expect the command upgrade process to begin about 6-8 months after joining subject to the above.

[doniedarko]

I think its 2 sims grade good or better. A sign off from Base Capt and TRE. Most people I've met had to do at least a year to learn the 'Ryanair' way !

[Penworth]

I've been offered a job with Ryanair as a DEC on a UK employment contract employed directly by Ryanair. I'm currently employed by another UK LCC and am mulling over whether to make the switch. Can anyone who's employed directly by Ryanair on a UK sterling contract answer some questions I have:

How does leave work? Is it true you only get 2 x 5 day blocks a year off on top of your month off and that you're unlikely to get any leave in the summer?

How much out of base flying do you do? And do the company arrange hotels and transport if operating away from base?

Is it correct the company matches up to 6% into a DC pension plan?

How much is the allowance to cover uniform, car parking etc?

I appreciate every base is different, but approximately how much is the basic and variable pay on a UK contract? I assume the basic is still paid on the month off?

Some of these points were covered on my assessment day but there was a lot to take in so any clarification on the above points would be appreciated. PM if you would prefer, thanks for your help.

[aerobat]

I can only answer for STN based Ryanair company Captain

10 days are on top of the calendar month and over the years have variously taken them all together giving a 22 day block, taken 5 giving 13 days off and also as ad hoc days.

Had a week off in the summer this year

In the last 12 years been sent out of base once, the company has to supply everything, taxis, hotel etc.

Company matches up to £6,000 paid into pension

£6,000 allowances

£38.49 gross hourly sector pay

£103.45 gross holiday pay per day

£396.55 gross for working day off

Basic plus 18 days payment for month off

[trigger21]

what's the approximate take home each month Aerobat, if you don't mind me asking? Also whats the basic plus 18 days payment for month off...you mean plus an average of 18 days flight pay on top of basic?

[aerobat]

The month off gives you basic salary plus 18 days of holiday pay.
Take home pay depends upon your personal tax code and how much you pay into the pension but basic gross is about £6,000 plus sector pay.

[glorifiedtaxidriver]

Gross basic at the regional UK bases is less, around £5150

[Fancy Navigator]

Penworth, is this as type rated or non type rated?

[IRRenewal]

In addition to the numbers given by aerobat, there is an agreement with HMRC that allows you to claim 1500 pounds a year in tax relief for expenses

[Monarch Man]

Just bringing this thread back to the top, I'm another EK 777 skipper from the UK looking at options to get me home.
Any update of latest contracts, commuting etc, whats the latest flavour of the month?
I fly with plenty of ex RYR guys so I have a good idea of how the place has been, and I dont need a lecture on the ills of the place. Im after a good unbiased opinion bearing in mind the key thing is a stable income and a stable roster. Presently at EK I'll be dead by 55 at the rate they are working me.

Thanks one and all in advance

[Otto32_fr]

Think it twice, in RYR you will fly 95 hours/month and 30 sectors

[Penworth]

Fancy Navigator - I applied as type rated DEC. In the end decided against the move though, for a couple of reasons.

[trigger21]

Guys, sorry there's a bit of conflicting info on here. For the UK contract DEC at a regional base, what is the approximate take home basic excluding sector pay please?

[CaptainSensible]

Depending on whether or not you make pension contributions approx £3500 to£3900 net per month excl sector payments. Incl sector payments expect approx £5000 to £6000 net per month, all dependant of course on hours flown. RYR contract all taxes and N.I. paid.

[alkor]

is the assessment for NTR DEC sama as described in other RYR thread?

Do you have to pay for it? What about the rating costs, upfront or deducted from pay?

Cheers,
a

[ezy320]

Well done Ryanair :ok::ok::ok:

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Any Ryan Air or other Boeing pilots looking for a change of lifestyle, Xiamen Airlines has dramatically increased their pay. I have been here 6 years and can answer any questions and help you out with the recruitment process. PM me here if desiring more information about contract terms, lifestyle, China etc.

1. Resident Contract 42 days off per year $25, 655 per month
2. 44 days on and 16 days off $24, 655 per month
3. 11 days off per month $20, 655 per month
4. 13 days off per month $19, 655 per month
5. 30 days on and 30 days off $14, 655 per month

[boko]

Hi guys,
NTR Captain 10000+. I applied a week ago at official Ryanair site. How long do I have to wait for an interview? Any idea?

Thanks!

[tomuchwork]

I got called 1 hour after I sent in my application. 10.000 hrs as well, NTR DEC. Will join them soon.

[LZ-DOC]

Last week I just sent an email asking them to confirm media reports about SOF base opening in October 16, I got a phone call the next day.
The guy that called hadn't read through my CV. He did not know I am NTR. Just wanted to know when I can start the OCC.
Told them they need to put something on the table... before asking me about my experience.
So that was it.
I'll wait to see if they will send me any T/Cs particular to SOF.
Wizz pays there the lowest basic/sector pay across their network...
Cheers

[boko]

I got an interview date with Ryanair next month!

Would you, please, give me an idea about the tech and HR questions? And the sim profile, please?

Are they the same as cadets/FOs?

Thanks for your time!!!

p.s. and another one...do you pay for your Type Rating?

[dmcna]

Oh sweet Jesus :ugh: