Ryanair in Copenhagen ... or not

[SMT Member]

Ryanair has presented what it calls its final word to the Danish cabin attendant and pilot unions: They have point blank refused to even entertain the idea of a collective agreement.

The unions have replied by announcing a conflict, which means all unionized cabin attendants and pilots in Denmark will be banned from taking up employment. It gets worse, much worse, for Ryanair though. All the major unions of CPH airport have pledged to back up the cabin attendant and pilot unions, and since every single handling, fueling and catering company in CPH is fully unionized, that means their aircraft might land and taxi to gate, but no ground handling at all will take place. This is assuming Ryanair will be able to find a handling agent at all; so far none of them are willing to meet the price point demanded by Ryanair. On the contrary, they have been advised what the prices are, take it or leave it. Reason being is rather simple: Their staff are unionized, and they are unable to turn a profit at the price RYR is offering due to the cost of labour. A ramp agents costs around USD 30/hour in CPH, inclusive of pension and social charges.

Unfortunately for MoL, CPH is home to some of the best organized, and best financially padded, unions in Europe. The word from them is simple: They sign a collective agreement with their cabin attendants and pilots based in CPH, or they bugger off. As the signing of a collective agreement in CPH will have widespread ramifications for their entire European operation, it is highly unlikely Ryanair will succumb to the pressure.

Ryanair plan to base 1 aircraft in CPH as of March, increasing to 4 aircraft during the course of 2015, all crewed with staff based in Denmark.

[F14]

Interesting, but can't see the Ryans being beaten, they have a bit of a history with union busting. The flight will be originated from other bases if militant activity gets too bad. Handlers will always find cheap immigrant labour to move the bags and rear steps....

[captplaystation]

Having seen first hand the determination & "don't give a :mad: attitude of the ramp staff in CPH, I think FR may have finally met its match.

Sweating it out along with 186 others on a baking hot day whilst being told that if you don't shut down the APU you will have no baggage handling ( because the handlers don't want to wear the ear protection provided by their employer ) is both frustrating & strangely comforting at the same time.

Vikings 1 Ryanair 0 would be my bet on the score. :ok:

[JW411]

Just to add a bit of Danish levity:

I arrived in BLL one night and the loaders refused to work until I shut the APU down (I wanted to stay warm during a 20 minute turnaround).

"Why" said I?

"It makes too much noise and it says so in our rules"

So, I shut the APU down and switched on the Brake Fans (which made more noise than the APU).

That blew the whole union plan apart because there was nothing in their bits and pieces that mentioned Brake Fans and I pointed out that this was a matter of flight safety.

I think I won the moral high ground that night.

[SMT Member]

Handlers will always find cheap immigrant labour to move the bags and rear steps....

Not in CPH they won't. And it's not just the unions who'll put a very quick end to that idea, the airport itself will not accept a handling company working on its premises without a collective agreement with it's workers. So the chances of seeing 'cheap immigrant workers' slinging bags and steps in CPH are somewhere between nil and zero.

I think I won the moral high ground that night.

You probably won '**** of the day' award, if anything. Sorry to be blunt, but that was an idiotic reaction on your part. If you're cold or hot, order a bloody aircondition unit and be done with it. Reminds me of the old saying 'in any pissing contests, everybody ends up wet and smelly'.

[Callsign Kilo]

I've no interest in leaping to thr defence of FR, however "it's too noisy and it's in our rules" is the most frustratingly disgraceful comment to be made by a person who works on the ramp of a commercial airport. What's next, tow aircraft to a point beyond earshot in order for them to start engines a depart? Have stealth arrivals onto stand? Make sure that baggage, fuel and catering trucks are noise monitored when under their own power? Wear ear defenders and do the job. Otherwise work elsewhere.

I can respect an airport having environmental constraints on the use of APUs, but ensure a GPU and the air conditioning cart is available on arrival. Simply telling me 'your' APU is too noisy and we have rules for ground staff' is pathetic. It's the very same people who fail to bring you a ground cart during an entire turnaround despite it being in the handling agent's contract that they must provide one. If they were sitting inside my aluminium tube experiencing soaring or indeed plummeting temperatures, what would be their primary concern at that stage?

[SMT Member]

I've no interest in leaping to thr defence of FR, however "it's too noisy and it's in our rules" is the most frustratingly disgraceful comment to be made by a person who works on the ramp of a commercial airport.

I appreciate your frustrations, but it seems to me that you've been subjected to a person who failed to communicate properly. Several airports do have restrictions on the use of APU (e.g. 5 mins after on-block and 10 mins before off-block), and that's nothing to do with the handlers. If is, however, their ears which will be suffering in the end.

[pudoc]

If is, however, their ears which will be suffering in the end

Surely their union supported salary could support buying ear plugs for themselves? Or would that need to be discussed at the next union meeting?

My ears suffer with APUs too, if you don't like the noise machines make don't work with them??

[captplaystation]

It is Summer, it is hot (yep even in CPH ) & they don't want pesky ear defenders messing up their carefully coiffured Mullet. . . . it is very "Britain in the 70's" turn that off or we will stop working.

I turned it on 10 min before STD & was met with a torrent of abuse "But we won't be ready in 10min switch it off again". . . my reply that we could solve this particular dilemma by them working faster was probably not the highpoint of my feeble attempts at diplomacy.

They are such sensitive souls the baggage guys in CPH, I am sure that they would be much more suited to working in a library, and am equally sure that they cannot be found on any Saturday night being deafened in some dive by music twice as loud as any APU, lubricated by one two many Carlsbergs.

The only bright side is that they are a formidable foe for a company that has become used to walking over everyone . . . . not this time methinks.

[Cmon-PullUP]

I fly to CPH a lot, I am from there and in the past I was a ground handler there as well.
So with this background, I think I am allowed to voice my opinion about baggage handlers in CPH these days: They are little :mad: with too big ego's for what they are worth!!!

I agree with the poster above "if you don't like noise, don't work at an airport handling airplanes" :ugh:
They are very frustrating people, and I had many rows with them over the years. I too turn on the brake fans when they become too high on their horses, in the hope they might some day turn to use common sense :yuk:

However, I do support them in the fight against RYR, as this will affect their working conditions in the wrong direction as well if RYR are allowed to do their "business as usual".

[MichaelPL]

Ryanair åbner rute fra CPH til Stockholm (http://www.check-in.dk/ryanair-aabner-rute-fra-cph-til-stockholm#.VMq0-dKG9vD)

På pressemødet blev Aviator i øvrigt præsenteret som Ryanairs kommende handlingagent i Københavns Lufthavn.

Which roughly translates to

During the press conference Aviator was presented as the Ryanairs handling agent at CPH.

[semmern]

I see that FR is harping on along their usual lines: "FR planes are Irish territory no matter where they are." All the while, our favourite Kjos claims that Norwegian planes in Spain fly under Spanish rules, even though they're registered in Norway. Funny how absolutely nobody, in the media or otherwise, picks up on this rather interesting tidbit... Two equally big destroyers of the airline industry with the same modus operandi justifying their ways of working around labour laws with two completely opposite explanations. One of them has got to be wrong, yet the legislators turn the other cheek to both.

[papazulu]

They are little :mad: with too big ego's for what they are worth!!!

MOL's mission statement and the reason why RYR, P2F and other industry's cancers exist...in a nutshell.

[TypeIV]

Guys, remember that few companies know this business as well as RYR does.

Personally, I'm sure of that they wouldn't wake the bear up, unless they were confident that they would be able to kill it, and have the furtrader pay them money for having the honour of selling the fur for them.

[oyviv]

Warning: Post from someone only type rated Citroën C3 !
May be moved or deleted as mods see fit!
Yesterday FR commercial director David O’Brien and director of personnel
Eddie Wilson held a press conference in connection with the launch of their CPH
base. One B738 will initially be based in CPH from Mar 26th, starting services
to Stockholm NYO. However IMO it looked more like an attempt to damage
control the threats from a number of unions!
David O’Brien confirmed that FR would not negotiate with Danish Unions.
‘We’re an Irish company flying Irish (registered) aircraft, and the Danish
legislation has nothing to do with us. ..It is plain stupid if the handling people
don’t drop their ideological crusade and welcome new jobs!” Etcetera!
Eddie Wilson said that 10 pilots, all Danish have been recruited internally for
the CPH base. They were in the process of recruiting 20 c/a, also internally.He told
that a FO was paid approx. .DKK 40.000 pr. month and a captain DKK 62000,
whereas a junior stewardess was paid approx.. 15500 DKK per month and a
senior stewardess . 22.000 ( no idea whether amounts mentioned are basic or with
‘extras’ ). ROE: DKK 10 to the Pound!
I won’t rule out that the ‘cockpit’ salary could impress some egalitarian minded
Danes, but the pittance paid to the ‘cabin’ will not! Which is probably why mr.
Wilson added that because of the cost of living in CPH FR was willing to increase
the c/a pay!
FYI: FR is quite a household name in BLL (Western Denmark), because they are
the only option to a number of destinations, including LON.Maybe it’ll take more
to please the Copenhagen-crowd, who are familiar with locos such as a.o.
DY, U2, AB and have something to compare with!
From a SLF point of view I’ll stick to the red nosed aircraft of my Northern
neighbours if they go where I’m going! Servicewise they’re no different from
SK! Maybe they’re looking for loopholes too, but I suppose that’s inevitable in this
LoCo time and age. Things were certainly different during my time in the industry!

[RAT 5]

I see that FR is harping on along their usual lines: "FR planes are Irish territory no matter where they are."

Is that not the case only when the doors are closed? Thus, during turn-round, doors open steps on the ground, they are subject to local laws. That was always my impression.

[172_driver]

Is that not the case only when the doors are closed? Thus, during turn-round, doors open steps on the ground, they are subject to local laws. That was always my impression.

I think even Ryanair have had to realize that now. New Ryanair contracts in European base has them paying the local social insurance. Meanwhile, the basic salary's been reduced insultingly low (to compensate).

[SMT Member]

During the press conference Aviator was presented as the Ryanairs handling agent at CPH.

It won't be Aviator doing the handling, rather their 'lower cost' CFS (Copenhagen Flight Service) offering. The workforce in CFS is, however, in the exact same union as everyone else working on the ramp in CPH.

Why Aviator sprung for Ryanair is pretty simple: They will lose their biggest customer (Norwegian) on the 1st of April, representing around 50% of their revenue, to Menzies Aviation.

But, just to be clear, even if RYR has signed a ground handling agreement, the handling staff still won't touch a RYR aircraft unless they sign a collective agreement for their cockpit and cabin staff. Which they've said very clearly that they won't.

[RAT 5]

But, just to be clear, even if RYR has signed a ground handling agreement, the handling staff still won't touch a RYR aircraft unless they sign a collective agreement for their cockpit and cabin staff. Which they've said very clearly that they won't.

This suggests that someone somewhere has a face to lose. Whose will it be? Who wants to keep it the more and who has more to lose? Could the worm be about to turn? How many episodes will this series have?

[semmern]

Is that not the case only when the doors are closed? Thus, during turn-round, doors open steps on the ground, they are subject to local laws. That was always my impression.

Well, they're obviously still going on about it, given that they said it again just a few days ago. They were busted here in Norway for having surveillance cameras in their crew office at ENRY without the employees knowing about it, claiming that their offices were Irish territory and they could do as they bloody well pleased. So...no, they don't give a flying :mad: they never have and they never will, as long as they're not stopped, which nobody seems willing to do.

[cvg2iln]

Just to add a bit of Danish levity:

I arrived in BLL one night and the loaders refused to work until I shut the APU down (I wanted to stay warm during a 20 minute turnaround).

"Why" said I?

"It makes too much noise and it says so in our rules"

So, I shut the APU down and switched on the Brake Fans (which made more noise than the APU).

That blew the whole union plan apart because there was nothing in their bits and pieces that mentioned Brake Fans and I pointed out that this was a matter of flight safety.

I think I won the moral high ground that night.

Very cunning: the conflict being that hot brakes are a safety hazard but so is APU noise. But the union boys and girls can't be expected to undertake work in an environment not fully conducive to safety (similar to a PIC always putting safety first) so the get out of jail free card (for them) was for you to run fans along with the APU (keeping your chestnuts warm while the brakes cooled - a form of heat exchange I suppose) and then everything is shut down to allow loading to begin. Makes for a long turn around, a delayed breakfast and knocks the schedule off track but everyone can claim the moral high ground. Perhaps not that cunning a plan once the loaders get the measure of it.

[Buster the Bear]

The losers here are both the airlines that have to pay more than they should for ground services and passengers, again having to pay more. No wonder there have been many airline failures with a principle base at Copenhagen!

I am all for Trade Unionism, but the world has changed and the successful unions move with the times.

[semmern]

Yeah, boo hoo, the tickets may end up costing £30 instead of £20. Oh, the humanity!

[dusk2dawn]

English text - "Flight Personnel Union" (FPU) serves strike notice - 29 JAN:
FPU and Serviceforbundet issues Ryanair with a strike notice (http://www.flyvebranchen.dk/nyheder/2015/01/fpu-and-serviceforbundet-issues-ryanair-with-a-strike-notice/)

Danish text - Union takes right to negotiate on base to Labour Court - 03 FEB:
LO - Konfliktvarsel mod Ryanair (http://www.lo.dk/Nyheder/Nyhedsarkiv/2015/02/150203_Ryanair_PNI.aspx)
Translation by Google (+ a little help)
LO is the Danish Central Labor Organization
FPU is sub-org of Serviceforbundet

Notice of conflict to Ryanair

LO has today submitted a written complaint to the Labour Court to pre-approve any future conflict against the Irish discount airline Ryanair. The case is initiated while Serviceforbundet has announced conflict against Ryanair.

- Ryanair claims that they are not covered by Danish legislation. The LO disagree because they have bases in Denmark. Ryanair has also said that they will meet any conflict with legal action. Therefore, we now ask the Labour Court in advance to validate the conflict warning of Serviceforbundet as legal, says LO's lawyer on the case, Peter Nisbeth.

With declaratory relief is the LO's desire to resolve the matter as quickly as possible and preferably before 26 March 2015 when Ryanair starts a base in Copenhagen.

Serviceforbundet serves strike notice.

The letter from the LO to the Labour Court is handed while Serviceforbundet warns of conflict against Ryanair because Ryanair firmly refused to enter into negotiations for an agreement with Serviceforbundet, via Flight Personnel Union (FPU) who organizes pilots and cabin crew.

Ryanair has announced that the airline will start flights from Copenhagen Airport, March 26.

- The very best would be to meet with Ryanair in order to enter into an agreement. Ryanair unfortunately categorically rejected this and therefore Serviceforbundet - fully in line with the Danish labor market model - serve notice of conflict, says Thilde Waast, chairman of the FPU.

If Ryanair continues to refuse to enter into negotiations for a collective agreement, the main conflict may later be backed by a sympathy conflict from members of the LO unions. This means that members of an LO Federation do not perform tasks arising from or destined for the conflict-affected employer. It may mean that Ryanair cannot get luggage handling or refuel. The extent of sympathy will be coordinated between the federations.

Fact Sheet on Ryanair - The Danish Model in practice

Ryanair has announced that they establish a base in Kastrup Airport starting on 26. March 2015.

Flight Personnel Union, which is part of the Serviceforbundet has agreements with other airlines based in Denmark. Serviceforbundet also wants an agreement with Ryanair. An agreement to ensure proper conditions for pilots and flight attendants on Ryanair bases in Denmark.

Under EU rules on airtraffic, every crew member shall be assigned a home base. Here it starts and ends duty. The laws of the country where the home base is located are applicable to crew members. It is established, inter alia, by a Norwegian judgment on Ryanair (Norway follows the EU rules) and a Danish judgment on Sterling's bankruptcy. If you base in Copenhagen, it is therefore Danish law applicable.
Tax is paid to Denmark. And Serviceforbundet has also signed agreements for other companies based in Denmark

Ryanair has flatly rejected the union's desire for a collective agreement

Serviceforbundet has announced a major conflict against Ryanair, from the company base starts up on March 26. The purpose of the Danish rules on conflict of notice is to establish a contractual arrangement and preferably before a conflict is started. Technically a main conflict is comprised of the strike and a blockade (which is not a physical barrier). This means that the members of Serviceforbundet may not accept employment in Ryanair, and those who are already employed go on strike. The blockade does not require any notice when Ryanair has refused to negotiate. The strike, in turn, requires notice equivalent to the members notice.

If that's not enough to get the employer to the negotiating table, the main conflict may later be backed by a sympathy conflict from members of the LO unions. This means that members of a federation LO may not perform tasks arising from or destined for the conflict-affected employer. The extent of a sympathy conflict will be coordinated between the federations.

Notice of sympathy strikes are served to the employer-associations, which have member companies that may have business with the employer. In Ryanair's case, it might be the act of luggage handling, check-in, or fuel. 2 notices of sympathy conflicts are served with 7 days apart - then the sympathy conflict to take effect. Finally, a sympathy conflict means that employees who are LO-members in Ryanair can be called out in sympathy strike

Ryanair at a press conference stated that they will meet any blockade and conflict with legal action. Therefore, LO brought before the Industrial Court the claim that Ryanair must recognize that the notice of conflict is legal. The Labour Court in Denmark has the opportunity to handle cases of conflict legality urgently. The LO wish that the matter will be settled before March, 26, 2015, where the Ryanair base in Kastrup starts up.
Bear with me - tough one to translate

[LNIDA]

CPH was the first airport i ever flew to that had strict ground noise rules and what a difference it made doing the walk around you could hear birds signing.

There is simply no justification for running an APU on turn around provided stable ground power (mains ideally) is available, if your down in Spain and it super warm then conditioned ground air should be available falling that, yes run the APU for passenger/crew convenience if your airline permits, some don't !! i gather?

Ditto if it super cold, ground handlers have to work directly under the APU's and yes they have ear defenders, but they can be a safety risk in cutting off a very important sense i.e. hearing things.

The worst ramp noise i can ever recall was in LBA we were on the airbridge and at one side was a bmi Embraer, the APU was noisier than the engines and on the other side a couple of stands away was a BRAL J31/41 powering back of stand that sounded like a thousand chain saws, after that i alway picked the sector that kept me in cockpit at LBA, the ramp guys there must be deaf by now

[JW411]

Just to add a bit of levity:

I am absolutely not surprised but a lot of you tree-huggers out there have missed my main point.

Where I mentioned that the fact that we did a 20 minute turn round seems to have gone through one ear and out of the other.

Even in those days, APUs were allowed at even the most restricted airfields, for 5 minutes after blocks in and then 10 minutes before blocks out. (Except in exceptional circumstances).

Ergo; on a 20 minute turnaround, we are actually only talking about a 5 minute gap in between the two parameters. I am amazed that the loaders even noticed. I certainly didn't because I was a bit busy and forgot to start my stopwatch.

[Basil]

I spent three years working in diesel and steamship engine rooms where, in order to communicate with the fireman or other engineer, our heads had to be almost touching (Hold the sailor jokes). Turbo Diesel - nuff sed; steam turbine roar from the main gearbox and buzz like packs from the turbo feed pump.
We were not issued with ear defenders.
You won't be surprised that I'm not greatly exercised by the loaders with ear defenders having to put up with an APU running for five minutes.

[KBPsen]

There is something quite uplifting in the fact that you two are no longer relevant.

Now, how about getting back to the topic of the thread instead of reminiscing about your past reenactments of upstairs/downstairs.

[JaxofMarlow]

It is such a shame so many of us are so bloody rude. Must be part of the training!

[captplaystation]

Lack of . . . . . training/class/education :*

[kick the tires]

KBPsen wrote: There is something quite uplifting in the fact that you two are no longer relevant.

Hopefully you too will be retiring soon and then we can be equally obnoxious when we dismiss you are being irrelevant and unworthy of an opinion or contribution. T1T.

[KBPsen]

When that day comes ground crews are going to miss me as I don't play silly games for the sake of my ego.

I'll miss them too as they are willing to fight on our side despite us never reciprocating. In many ways a loader has a lot more integrity than those who feel they are above them.

[Basil]

JaxofMarlow, It is such a shame so many of us are so bloody rude. Must be part of the training!
What? Was someone being rude? :}

Basil of Marlow - perhaps we pass walking our dogs ;)

[JaxofMarlow]

Basil - could be. My long departed old man was ex military/BEA(Viscount/Vanguard/Trident).

[SMT Member]

Interesting set of reactions here, given the implications.

Some have turned this into a ramp worker bashfest, ignoring the fact it will up to those ramp workers to force Ryanair to sign a collective agreement for its flying crews based in CPH. If Ryanair chooses not to, they will not be handled in CPH. If they chose to sign, that will open the floodgates for everyone currently employed by Ryanair, or any other airline on similar terms.

In so many words, pilots and cabin crew have proved unable or unwilling to force collective bargaining on Ryanair, and the battleground will instead be on the ramp, by ramp workers, in CPH. Yet all some of you have done, is taking the opportunity to have a go at these guys, for advising you to follow the rules on running an APU FFS!

The worst enemy of a pilot is not, it would seem, a Michael O'Leary type, but rather pilots themselves.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[semmern]

Yep. Not much solidarity to be seen around these parts nowadays. RYR guys should be happy that someone is willing to stand up for them.

[737Jock]

But will they stand up to Ryanair?

Their company just lost their biggest contract, not serving Ryanair might well mean bankruptcy for their company. I applaud them in their action, but fear resolve might fail in the face of unemployment while defending someone else's right to a collective agreement. Will the CPH based Ryanair crew join their strike?

[Basil]

JaxofMarlow, I was Viscount but Glasgow based.
Never had any complaints about the APU ;)

[Basil]

Re the OP:
The word from them is simple: They sign a collective agreement with their cabin attendants and pilots based in CPH, or they bugger off.
I thought that pretty well covered it. No Danegeld, no base.

[dusk2dawn]

And no base seems to be Ryanairs solution.

On a press conference today (12 FEB 2015) Edward Wilson, Director of Personnel and In-flight, announced that Ryanair will drop the CPH base but nevertheless open 8 routes to CPH beginning March 18, a week earlier than initially announced.

Also today Danish newspaper AVISEN.DK wrote that Ryanair surprisingly had accepted a meeting with the union, FPU (http://www.avisen.dk/flypersonale-ryanair-overrasker-med-ja-til-moede_308329.aspx), though not to negotiate an agreement.

http://www.flyvebranchen.dk/nyheder/2015/02/press-release-from-fpu/

[captplaystation]

well done CPH, OUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY !

[Jwscud]

I have a fair bit of sympathy with Danish FR crew who had thought they were going to be based at home, and now have lost that opportunity though.

[dirk85]

If only in Italy we had the same courage.

Good luck trying to fly from here without basing crews...

[semmern]

Awesome! Well done, CPHers!

[oyviv]

Ladies and gentlemen,
Referring to the informative posts by Dusk2dawn on Febr. 4th
resp. Feb. 12th I would like to add the following twist to this saga:


It looks as if there's nothing to celebrate .... yet! :(

At a press conference in CPH yesterday Ryanair bosses David
O'Brien and Eddie Wilson stated that they would speed up their
CPH launch to March 18th, initially with a DUB-CPH route. FR will
be using A/C and crews based in DUB, thus making any industrial
action by the Danish unions illegal. Mr. Wilson added that in fact
FR could operate any of the planned routes from CPH from
other bases.

A Danish lawyer, Mr. Michael Møller Nielsen, a Labour law
specialist 'discreetly' attended the press conference, indicating
that FR is willing to roll out the heavy artillery against the
Danish Unions. Mr. Nielsen confirmed to a journalist that his
firm would be assisting FR in connection with their meeting
with the Danish Labour Court due on February 26th.

Besides there's the intended meeting with Serviceforbundet -
representing the Flight Personnel Union. It appears that the
parties have yet to agree on a date; Mr.John Dybart of
Serviceforbundet had apparently declined to meet with FR at
a short notice (yesterday!)and suggested two other dates, which in
turn were declined by Mr. O'Brien!!
It lead Mr. O'Brien to throw his toys out of the pram, accusing
Mr. Dybart of avoiding a Ryanair meeting whatsoever! To prove
his point Mr. O'Brien handed out copies of their mail correspondence
to the journalists!

Another FR press conference is due later this month!

Source: Check-in, a Danish news site for the Airline and travel industry.


So I'm afraid it's still undecided who'll end up with egg on their faces!

[dusk2dawn]

From the FPU union website:
Arbejdsretten har holdt første møde om Ryanair (http://www.flyvebranchen.dk/nyheder/2015/02/arbejdsretten-har-holdt-foerste-moede-om-ryanair/)

February 26th, 2015

Flight Personel Union (FPU) and its parent organisation, Serviceforbundet, today met with Ryanair in the Labour Court, which in the near future will decide whether a conflict against the Irish airline will be legal.

The Labour Court has today begun examining whether the FPU and Serviceforbundet legally can run an industrial conflict against Ryanair, if the Irish airline does not wish to enter a Danish agreement.

The Labour Court has decided that it is an urgent case, and the court will hold its next meeting on 26 March 2015. Here, the Labour Court decide when it will take its final decision.

"This was the initiating meeting. We are happy that it is a matter of urgency. That was what we wanted. Now the case moves and we await a decision, "says Thilde Waast chairman of FPU.

Today's meeting of the Industrial Court comes after the FPU and Serviceforbundet Friday last week in London met with Ryanair. Here, the Danes had a draft agreement with subsequently also been sent to Ryanair.

"Examples of staff contracts shows that Ryanair cabin crew secured only 11 months' salary per year, that they must change working country at very short notice, and even pay their own uniforms and ID cards. This is why we act, to ensure our future colleagues in Denmark reasonable terms, "says Thilde Waast.

Ryanair has so far rejected to enter into a collective agreement for its staff in Copenhagen. Therefore, FPU and Serviceforbundet announced conflict in accordance with the Danish model.

As Ryanair previously announced that the airline will take legal action against any conflict, the National Labour Organisation (LO) has asked the Labour Court to decide whether a conflict would be lawful.


FPU on meeting with Ryanair (http://www.flyvebranchen.dk/nyheder/2015/02/press-release-from-fpu/)

[dusk2dawn]

Don't mourn - organize!

[dusk2dawn]

The following is from the "Danish Broadcasting Corporation" (DR-News) today (09 MAR 2015) with assistance from Google Translate and Yours Truly.

Advokat: Ryanair har en dårlig sag | Nyheder | DR (http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Penge/2015/03/09/121625.htm)

Spring offers an exciting labor dispute when the Irish budget airline Ryanair as planned makes its inroads in Copenhagen at the end of March.

Ryanair will establish base in Copenhagen, and it has made the (central) Labor Organization (LO) to pull Ryanair in the Labor Court of Denmark.

When an airline establishes base somewhere, it means namely that their employees must live where the base is located.

LO therefore believes that Ryanair should enter into a Danish collective agreement with their employees, but this is rejected by Ryanair.

LO has given notice of a blockade of Ryanair, and the Labor Court must now decide whether it can validates the blockade.

Peter Breum, a labor lawyer with Elmer & Partners, estimates that Ryanair is faced with a bad case.

- I believe that the Danish labor will recognize LO's right to perform a conflict, and then supporting conflicts will be established to put an end to baggage handling, fuel for Ryanair aircraft and more, so it is impossible to operate an aircraft he says.

Hard to get a case before the court

Ryanair has told DR-News that they will try to have the case brought before the European Court of Justice if they do not succeed in the Labor Court.

That will be a bit of a challenge, says Peter Breum.

- I think that Ryanair will have a hard time getting the case to the ECJ. It only happens if the Labor Court believes that the directives claimed are unclear in some way.

ECJ only raises cases where a national court - such as the Labor Court - asks the court about it, or if a European Commissioner requests so.

Companies and individuals can not simply demand to be tried a case before the European Court of Justice.

If Ryanair loses in the Danish Labour Court, the airline will argue that Denmark is violating EU rules on workers free movement.

Ryanair may, for example, complain to the Commission in the hope of having the matter raised at the European Court of Justice.

Labor struggles are also part of the EU

Peter Breum think, however, that Ryanair also here will struggle to succeed with their arguments.

- To establish a professional organization and fight for a collective agreement, it is something that is also rooted in the EU.

Ryanair's first flight takes off on schedule from Copenhagen on 18 March. The base in Copenhagen is scheduled to be established on 26 March.

[oyviv]

Ryanair inaugural flight FR632 ex DUB arrived CPH 14.03z,
scheduled to return at 14.30z. The a/c was met by a group of
ramp workers waving the Danish flag, a somewhat ambigous
welcome however perceived by some passengers as a
'cute and nice' gesture, according to a Radio Denmark journalist
o/b.

As I type (15.50z) EI-EVO is still on the apron waiting to be
refuelled. The police have arrived to remove the alledged
picketers, who were standing outside the security area,
or so they claim!
It goes without saying that Ryanair now sees this as illegal
industrial action rather than a coincidental delay!

The events are still being covered live by Radio Denmark web-TV!

The question is how this will affect further proceedings regarding
the announced industrial action (see above) against Ryanair!
I trust that one of the 'flying Danes' on this forum will keep you
posted on the further developments in the coming weeks!

[Skyjob]

Ryanair website showing the following:

FR 633
15:30 Copenhagen - Dublin 16:45
Estimated Arrival 19:30
ATC Delay

[oyviv]

And she's Off chocks at 17.31z!

[oyviv]

quote
What was the schedule off chocks time in Z ? Did they nicely
trigger the 3 hour compensation delay payment for passengers ? :D
unquote


STD was 14.30z. Off chocks is ATD, if my memory serves me right! :hmm:

As for the 3 hour compensation: I wouldn't know; at the end
of the day I suppose it's up to Ryanair. However I doubt that they're
obliged to pay any compensation as they were the innocent party
in the delay!

[oyviv]

Quote
Ryanair and innocent party in the same sentence... Ha ha oxymoron :D
They're anything but innocent, they created the situation !
unquote

Well, that's one way of putting it and I don't disagree as such :)!
However the unions knew that by operating the flight from their
DUB-base Ryanair was off limits today and that the FR
tolerance threshold would be low regarding any 'delays' or
dawdling on the part of the handlers!
A scheduled 30 mins. turn-around ended up being a 3 hour
delay, and according to a spokesperson from CPH Airport it's
most likely to be treated as an illegal industrial action! This could
end up being counterproductive for the cause of the unions later on!
Ryanair decided to advance their CPH launch by one week,
and it's not for me to second-guess their agenda.

IMHO the assembled ramp workers, whether off- or on-duty
would have made a greater impact had they just waved their flags,
bowed deeply in front of the aircraft and then trundled off to
a cold Carlsberg in the cafeteria, of course leaving the assigned
handlers to get on with their jobs!

For the record: Due to the pending case in the Labour Court, the
Danish TUC (LO) strongly advised against taking illegal action against
FR today and tonight they denounced any such activity earlier
today.

[dusk2dawn]

Danish union on the March 26 court meeting (http://www.flyvebranchen.dk/ryanair/2015/03/om-moedet-i-arbejdsretten-den-26-marts/)

...Google translate of union president statement above..:
[no verdict but...] the Labour Court has instead decided that the next meeting will take place on 12 May. The judge expect that the case can then be treated quickly, and the date of the final hearing expected to be fixed shortly thereafter.

It is a shame that we did not get the date yesterday. Ryanair has presented the court for no less than 12 items of EU acts and argue constantly that their employees in Denmark must work under Irish wages and working conditions. The Labour Court has a pile of papers to be read and considered.

In addition, Ryanair does not think that the Danish Labor Court is competent to work with the matter.

[Bokkenrijder]

Good on the Danes! Stop the race to the bottom and teach those stupid Pikeys and Poms (switching on brake fans! :yuk:) a lesson by sticking to the CWA and rulebook!! :ok:

The world needs less TTIP, low cost and fast food!

[autobrake3]

And the nationality of the people and the airline that gave you your lucky break into the jet world thus enabling you to move on was......?

[172_driver]

Does that justify social dumping you mean?

[Bokkenrijder]

And the nationality of the people and the airline that gave you your lucky break into the jet world thus enabling you to move on was......?
Ehh, GAVE ME? As far as I remember I lost my job because of low cost airlines, then I had to pay for my own ticket and hotel for the selection, I had to pay for my type rating and had to pay for my own uniform.

Please enlighten me, what do low cost airlines actually GIVE to employees, apart from social dumping and the 'privilege' to be treated like dirt?

Low cost is the cancer of aviation! :yuk:

[FRogge]

Even if Ryanair would treat their emplyees with respect and decent conditions, the jobs would still be there. If not with them, then with someone else. I don't see any reason not to criticize RYR for paying below local minimum wages, no matter if former cadet or not.

[RAT 5]

During the various debates for the soon UK government election many politicians had very strong condemnation that there were >700,000 workers in UK on zero-hour contracts.No workers' rights, pensions, sick pay, holiday pay, protection against being laid off, difficulty in obtaining credit & mortgages etc. etc.
If you look around you will find the profession littered with such contracts. Most we hear about are complained about, but nothing is done about them. There are many excuses, but they are just that, not justifiable reasons. If there is strong political support to end zero-hour contracts and the victims do nothing, including the relevant unions, then they have only themselves to blame. It is almost as if the politicians are inviting information. Last chance!

[autobrake3]

Ehh, GAVE ME? As far as I remember I lost my job because of low cost airlines, then I had to pay for my own ticket and hotel for the selection, I had to pay for my type rating and had to pay for my own uniform.

Please enlighten me, what do low cost airlines actually GIVE to employees, apart from social dumping and the 'privilege' to be treated like dirt?

Low cost is the cancer of aviation!

The irony of your reply is very drôle if you take a moment to think about it but it didn't answer the question which was merely aimed at your xenophobic outburst. I certainly have no truck with the tactics of modern airline management who have fattened themselves on people like you.

[dusk2dawn]

Ryanair får grønt lys til sag mod ansatte i Københavns Lufthavn | Information (http://www.information.dk/telegram/529616)

Google xlate:

Ryanair wants a ban against employees in Copenhagen Airport blockading its departures

April 9, 2015 at. 13:57

Ritzau

Thursday the Copenhagen District Court allowed Lawyers for Ryanair to bring a case against employees at Copenhagen Airport for the District Court,.
The staff lawyers'd tried to have the case dismissed and transferred to the Labour Court.

Source Avisen.dk.

The case concerns Ryanair who wants to get a ban on employees in Copenhagen creating a physical barrier against the company's operation.

Three weeks ago, Wednesday, March 18, Ryanair was hit by a blockade at Copenhagen Airport. For nearly three hours employees at the airport prevented Ryanair's first flight from the airport to refuel and be prepared.

The lawyers of Ryanair argued in court that Ryanair can not live with future demonstrations and physical blockades against its departures in Kastrup. At the same time, they argued that the rules for the security of the airport has been broken.

The lawyers of [Handling Workers Club] held that the case belongs in the Labour Court. Their lawyer, Nicolai Westergaard, said:

- This is a complete working judicial banality, where the Labour Court has jurisdiction.

The judge of the lower district court ruled, however, that the case belonged in the district court.

In addition to the case in the District Court, proceedings continue in the Labour Court. Here the Confederation of Trade Unions are are trying to get a court order that it can conflict against Ryanair.

The next meeting of the Labour Court in this case is Tuesday 12 may. The case may turn out to be protracted, so Ryanair gets quiet to settle in Copenhagen Airport, writes avisen.dk.

[dusk2dawn]

Ryanair i fokus som hademodel 1. maj | Stand By - Morgennyheder til rejse-, hotel- og turistbranchen (http://www.standby.dk/ryanair-i-fokus-som-hademodel-1-maj/)

By means of Google Translate ++

Ryanair in focus as hate-model May 1.

CAMPAIGN: There are both debates, posters and happenings on the way from the trade union movement against Ryanair. Under the name "Heroes Of The Air" attacks are coming from many sides, and the topic will also be highlighted in the May 1 speaches.

Both red politicians and trade unions are engaged in a major campaign against Ryanair and FPU (Flight Personnel Union) has hired campaign workers for the campaign to grow and create sympathy in the population.

It's Berlingske [major danish newspaper] who in detail inform about where the trade unions and friends in the red block stands today, prior to May 1 and later on May 12 when the Labour Court airs its opinion.

The campaign's backers encourages volunteers to destribute folders on education institutions about the conditions in Ryanair.

It is first and foremost SF and Unity [left wing parties], who are critical of Ryanair, but maybe not as surprising also a certain right wing voice from the EU joins in.

Thus Jens Rohde (V) [right wing party] states to the newspaper and on facebook: "The Irish trade union movement broken their neck to dare fight for decent working conditions in Ryanair. This must not happen in Denmark. This is also about whether the Danish model can survive in a globalized market. "

Unlike Joachim B. Olsen's view: "The trade unions have the right to take this conflict. But it is unsympathetic, for they have no members in Ryanair. In fact, it is nice that there is competition in air travel."
[Joachim B. Olsen is MP for Liberal Alliance - an extreme right party]

The Labour Court is meeting with the parties on May 12, but a verdict that is not expected until June, or perhaps after the summerholiday. If the judges finds that the case is of great importance for the whole EU, it is possible to imagine that's going to take much longer.

Meanwhile Ryanair just increases flights and routes from Copenhagen Airport, while the people cheer and unions rages.

[dusk2dawn]

Udsættelse af Arbejdsrettens møde med FPU og Ryanair (http://www.flyvebranchen.dk/nyheder/2015/04/udsaettelse-af-arbejdsrettens-moede-med-fpu-og-ryanair/)

The Labour Court have recheduled the next meeting in the Ryanair vs.the right to industrial action from May 12 to May 20.

[squarecrow]

This also from The BALPA LOG Magazine spring 15,

Tax concern's in Ryanair,

"A Large number of pilot's at Ryanair are flying under employment arrangements that are unusual for our industry. Under the common arrangement, Ryan air contracts with an employment agency which then subcontracts to a non UK personal or Managed service Company for the provision of Pilot's. Pilot's are required to become Director's of the non-UK
personal or managed service Co.
A growing number of Ryanair crew are concerned at the uncertainty of
these arrangement's and that they seem to carry all the Risk".

Brookfield being one of these Agencies no doubt.

It goes on to say BALPA are being approached by said crew and they are addressing these concern's to HMRC etc.

[dusk2dawn]

European Commissioner for Competition speaks out on May 1'

Vestager: Ryanair vinder ikke over 'den danske model' i EU (DR) (http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Politik/2015/04/30/191201.htm)

An upcoming sympathy blockade of Ryanair flights at Copenhagen Airport is in no way in conflict with EU principles of free competition.
That is the clear message from the top place - the European Commissioner for Competition, Margrethe Vestager, to DR News.

- No, it's not in conflict. In fact, quite the contrary. There is room for the Danish model. There is a scope for social partners to take responsibility for how the work is done, says Margrethe Vestager with clear reference to the dispute between Ryanair and the Danish trade union movement.

A message that certainly not becomes Ryanair chief executive, Michael O'Leary, who visited Copenhagen last week, and who believe that the conflict is unambiguously clear, and that it will end up taking the life of the Danish model:
- Ultimately, the Danish model could not survive if faced with European rules on competition and free movement of goods and labor. But we'd rather not have it come to that, says the battle-ready Mr O'Leary.

Ryanair is ready to bring proceedings before the European Court of Justice (ECJ)
Ryanair intends: to devote all necessary efforts to bring the matter to the European Court if they were to lose the case pending in the Danish Labour Court.
But the Ryanair CEO should not expect backing from the former Danish Minister of Economy, who now sits as the head of free and fair competition in Europe.
- There is room in Europe to fight for ones cause. We do not have bloody free liberal competition. We have a fair market in which we ensure order, and that is how I think it should be, says the Danish EU commissioner firmly.

Michael O'Leary still believe that the ECJ will uphold Ryanair's contention that the conflict is contrary to the whole idea of the EU.
- I think the EU court will take a different view. The cornerstone of the EU is freedom of movement. The Danish model will not be sustainable, says O'Leary.
But Vestager takes a case before the European Court of Justice with serenity. Ryanair will not succeed in beating the Danish model to death, she said.
- We are confident in the expectation that the Danish model, it can be there. And then we also have the competition in organized manners, says Margrethe Vestager.

Two ways to get the case to the ECJ
There are roughly only two ways, Ryanair can try their case before the ECJ.
Either the European Commission initiates an action because it believes Denmark treats Ryanair wrong.
Or, a Danish court sends the case to Brussels. And right now there is not much to suggest that it will be Margrethe Vestager who furthers the matter.

The Danish Labour Court is still in the process of dealing with the case, where trade unions want to gain approval for a sympathy blockade against Ryanair aircraft at the CPH base. Such a blockade would prevent Ryanair to fly out of Copenhagen.

Half of the staff working for very low wages
The blockade is considered as flight personnel on board Ryanair aircraft not operating under Danish agreements. In Ryanair it is customarily about half of flight personnel working under Ryanair's own agreements.

But the other half are recruited from agencies under contract recruitment, which is criticized for very low pay, no payment during illness and holidays as well as charge for uniforms and ID cards. In addition, limiting the contracts of staff freedom of expression.
Labour market researcher Henning Jørgensen from Aalborg University have previously to DR News called the employment contracts "slavery".

The Labour Court will see the parties again on May 20.
Mostly thanks to Google Translate

[FRogge]

I hope that this attitude spreads to other places/countries aswell. Big applaud to Denmark

[dusk2dawn]

The following is translated from the Flight Personnel Union (FPU) web-site by Yours Truly with assistance from Google Translate.

Arbejdsretten behandler hele Ryanair-sagen den 15. juni (http://www.flyvebranchen.dk/nyheder/2015/05/arbejdsretten-behandler-hele-ryanair-sagen-den-15-juni/)

The Labor Court will rule on the entire Ryanair-case on June 15.

May 20, 2015

The Labor Court has today decided to complete the the entire proceedings in the case about the notice of conflict against Ryanair as served by Flyvebranchens Personaleunion/Serviceforbundets on Monday, June 15, 2015. The judgement may fall the same day or probably later.

– We have raised the case being convinced that Flyvebranchens Personaleunion and Serviceforbundet are entitled to demand a collective agreement for Denmark-based Ryanair staff. This implies the right to strike and the possibility of sympathy actions if Ryanair continues to refuse says Peter Nisbeth, barrister for LO [national main organization].

LO has raised the case at the Labor Court, because Ryanair so far has so far refused the demand by Flyvebranchens Personaleunion/Serviceforbundet for a collective agreement for the Ryanair staff, pilots and cabin crew, based in Denmark.

Danish labor law enables unions to strike and action in sympathy against companies rejecting the demand for an agreement. Ryanair has previously responded to Serviceforbundet that every initiative to strike and sympathy actions will be met by litigation.

Ryanair claims that the Labor Court must rule according to Irish law and that EU has excepted international air transport from the right to conflict.

– We are convinced that Danish labor law applies here and now we initiate preparations for the June 15 meeting says Peter Nisbeth. However, he emphasizes that there are at least three different outcomes.
– The judges may approve of the unions right to conflict against Ryanair. Or the Labor Court judges may decide to consult the European Court of Justice (ECJ). To treat the case according to Irish law is also a possibility, he says.

LO now awaits the ruling of the Labor Court before Flyvebranchens Personaleunion/Serviceforbundet initiates a conflict and call for sympathy actions from other unions.

LO is litigating for Serviceforbundet and a number of other unions in the Labor Court.
Sympathy actions against Ryanair may be initiated by 3F, HK/Privat, Dansk El-Forbund, Blik- og Rørarbejderforbundet, Serviceforbundet and Dansk Metal.

On June 15 the case is scheduled in Labor Court from 14:30 CET in open court.

[dusk2dawn]

Following an almost 10 hours long session Monday 15, the Labour Court has withdrawn to contemplate some (5-10 days) over the LO vs Ryanair verdict. It still appears to be a possibility that ECJ in Luxembourg could be asked to air its opinion before the verdict is passed.

For those in command of the Danish language there is a moderately interesting "live transcript" of the proceedings here: http://www.check-in.dk/live-ryanair-vs-lo-i-arbejdsretten#.VX_iFSi_NSB

[dusk2dawn]

According to DR Nyheder (http://www.dr.dk/nyheder/penge/ryanair-dom-klar-paa-onsdag) the Danish Labor Court will pass its verdict on July, 1. at 1400 CET.

[KBPsen]

Unions win, Ryanair lose.
(https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dr.dk%2Fnyheder%2Fpenge%2Fvideo-dom-i-ryanair-sag-lo-sejrer-over-flyselskab&edit-text=)
Fights on!

[dusk2dawn]

Ruling by the Labor Court (mostly danish) (http://www.arbejdsretten.dk/media/1125391/dom%20ar2015.0083.pdf)

[SMT Member]

Today's ruling means that Ryanair has lost all 3 cases it had in the Danish courts.

What this ruling means, is that within 5 days the unions are legally allowed to launch labour actions against Ryanair in both CPH and BLL.

Ryanair has 3 options:

1) Close the bases and serve DK from other bases only
2) Sign a CLA with DK based staff
3) Leave the DK market

Since 2) is not going to happen, one is quietly hoping for 3).

[oyviv]

Seems like FR will serve CPH from other bases! Radio Denmark reports that the CPH - WMI route will be discontinued from July 15th due to an " operational revision". This need not be related to today's Labour court ruling however the route happens to be the last of the daily rotation of the one a/c based at CPH.

[SMT Member]

Ryanair dropped by for a meeting with the unions yesterday, which lasted all of 8 minutes. Ryanair are not interested in signing a CLA with any union, and that put a quick end to the talks.

Following the meeting, the union advised action will commence in CPH on the 18th of July, and in BLL and AAR on the 23rd. In response Ryanair have advised they will close the bases in both CPH and BLL, with CPH set to close on the 14th and BLL on or around the 20th.

As a consequence of Ryanair no longer having staff based in Denmark, the unions will be calling off the conflict. Ryanair may therefore continue to offer services out of Denmark, but will not be basing aircraft there. This will result in the more profitable early morning departures, and late evening arrivals, being discontinued.

All in all this will mean the loss of around 50 jobs in Denmark, the vast majority of which are expat contract cabin crew working for a pittance and hardly contributing anything to the Danish tax system. In the greater scheme of things this is a price not even worth mentioning, when fighting to protect the Danish labour model.

In the mean time, in Italy, Ryanair have just been handed a massive fine for failure to pay social contributions for their staff based there. Furthermore, the Italian legal system is about to launch a criminal, repeat criminal, case against MoL personally.

[justinabeavor]

Hypothetical question, if NAS based expat crews on OSM contracts in Denmark without a collective agreement, would that be OK as they are a Scandi outfit or id the playing field level really inclined!

[SMT Member]

To the poster above: No, that would not be ok. Hence the reason Norwegian has a CLA with a Danish union for their CPH based staff.

Nobody's asking Ryanair anything special, only that they abide by the same rules as everyone else based in Denmark. They won't, so they're buggering off. And good riddance to them!

[justinabeavor]

Member, Does OSM have an agreement with the unions? I don't think so reading the NAS threads..it may be permanent core pilots at CPH do but they do not work for OSM..its a pity aviation has sunk to the low levels where crews become political pawns, I am sure Denmark would have benefitted from cultural differences brought by the Irish invaders! Ryanair claimed their action was due to blockading of their operations, almost secondary picketing. Is it the case the Danish unions do not recognise the Ryanair pilots association or the protection of Danish Labour laws that is the crux of the matter?

[172_driver]

I am sure Denmark would have benefitted from cultural differences brought by the Irish invaders!

What 'cultural benefits' would that be? I'd happily trade my Guiness for a summer holiday each year, which the law entitles me to (..at least in another Scandinavian country, most likely Denmark too).

[justinabeavor]

No summer holiday? did you actually ask fit it? anyway, at least you can laugh about it, more than can be said for some: The Danish Don't Have the Secret to Happiness - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/01/the-danish-dont-have-the-secret-to-happiness/384930/)
Ok back to topic, I think Ryanair will not shed a tear over this divorce

[FRogge]

Neither will the danes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can join the union in the scandi countries even if working through a agency for NAX

[F-16GUY]

Michael O'Leary biggest mistake was to ignore the Danish "Jante Lov" (unwritten law about how to behave among Danes).

The law is described in the link provided by justinabeavor, but to sum it up its all about being humble and being able to access how things are done in a new place once you get there, rather then just stumbling in trying to change the way things are done. Michael O'Leary failed miserably....

When in Rome do like the Romans, and when in Denmark do like the Danes!

Denmark is a well organized country, and luckily we can afford living without having to live by Michael O'Leary rules. He won't be missed.

Last but not least, the outcome of this dispute might end up being the beginning of the end for the Ryanair way of doing business. Other unions in other EU countries are also looking into the options used by the danish unions.

[jetopa]

Denmark is a well organized country, and luckily we can afford living without having to live by Michael O'Leary rules. He won't be missed.

That pretty much sums it up. I like it! :ok:

[captplaystation]

I think you will find his interest lies in Cattle (and Horses) he has no connection with sheep (unless one counts his employees :rolleyes: )

[Mr Angry from Purley]

He'll always have the last laugh though.........

Ryanair to close Billund base on July 17 - ch-aviation.com (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/38832-ryanair-to-close-billund-base-on-july-17)

[justinabeavor]

MOL should be congratulated for not letting the Unions dictate how he pays HIS staff, wait a moment though! this is the same union that is stopping the NAS guys getting food ration at Christmas as they are part time? MOLs biggest mistake was not making Maggie Thatcher head of HR..

[SR71]

MOL should be congratulated for not letting the Unions dictate how he pays HIS staff

Fantastic.

After all, it is MOL himself who flies 70+million people around Europe every year so he ought to be recompensed royally....

:ugh:

[Say Mach Number]

Feel for the majority of Danish (Scandi) pilots who have been waiting for a CPH base for years.

Now they got it and then have their local unions royally kick them in the b@@ls.

Just in case they missed the first ball they got both by forcing more Danes to move out of the BLL base.

Did the unions ever consult with the Danish pilots who they were affecting doubt it.

If they had they may have been told;

5 on 4 off roster, home every night with wife and kids, no crappy night flights, and living at home.

Hmmm let me think...........

Long term pain for most Danes for short term gain for the Unions!

[Avenger]

The whole idea of a trade union is to improve conditions for the collective workforce, union members or not..The vast majority will fail to see how the closing of two bases and the loss of jobs and home bases can be regarded as a success..How about the Spanish, German and Italian unions, are they insisting on the same " local employment rights" or is this a case of protectionism by the Scandi Unions, having failed so miserably with the NAS operations they felt they would pick on an easier target? This is akin to the BA cabin crew strike that simply left large numbers of people with periods of no pay and eventually no staff travel. Not everyone is a fan of MOL, but at least he is consistent , of course we will get a tirade of " at what cost to human dignity, slave pilots, etc etc",, complete nonsense, if people don't like it they can leave to the apparently " greener grass" which often turns out to be a field of weeds.. as demonstrated by the " reflux " of the guys now returning to RYR.. As observed by the previous poster , did the unions actually consult the staff or simply bully the staff before throwing their spears in the air ..As for the other comment " lets kick the Prxck out of the rest of Europe" this just hows how pathetic and narrow minded and misguided a few on this forum are.. exactly where would you propose to employ the redundant 1000"s .. Oh, yes we all suddenly forgot anyone can work in the sandpits or spit holes in China, its coming back is the problem..
This article sums up the general feeling about this:

Danish Labor Unions Shut Down Ryanair?s Bases in Denmark | Flight Chic (http://flightchic.com/2015/07/14/ryanair-denmark-disputes/)

[KBPsen]

I suppose the willing doormats will always resent those who refuse to be one. Being reminded of one's impotence can't be pleasant.

[directmisbi]

NAS has a collective agreement with its pilots in all of Scandinavia. Full term, perm employed. As for the rest of your comments, yes it is really true that pilots are sometimes their own worst enemies :ugh:

[172_driver]

I am the first one to sympathize with the poor crew who have been forced out of CPH and BLL. They are humans too and shouldn't be disregarded. Ironically they're probably the least enthusiastic about the union's fight for fairer terms and conditions. Is Ryanair doing anything to assist them? Should they? The answer to those two questions gives and indication how much they really care about their employees.

The vast majority will fail to see how the closing of two bases and the loss of jobs and home bases can be regarded as a success

In establishing a level playing field for competition, it must be seen as a success for a Danish unions to ensure that Danish labour laws cannot be evaded. Akin to 'flag of convenience' in shipping.

How about the Spanish, German and Italian unions, are they insisting on the same " local employment rights" or is this a case of protectionism by the Scandi Unions

Probably a cultural thing. The Scandinavian countries have traditionally had very strong unions.

Not everyone is a fan of MOL, but at least he is consistent , of course we will get a tirade of " at what cost to human dignity, slave pilots, etc etc",, complete nonsense, if people don't like it they can leave to the apparently " greener grass" which often turns out to be a field of weeds.

It's not only the pilots. The cabin crew shall be remembered too, they're the ones who really cannot make ends meet. If you've spent any time in Ryanair you'll find there is plenty of well educated people but they're unfortunate to come from countries where the unemployment level is unsustainably high and they see no prospects at home. Owt is better than nowt.