Everything

[bd01uk]

Hello everyone.

This is my first post but i have been reading this forum for ages. Its my second time writing this because i deleted it by accident. My name is Ben and im 17. I have been doing my PPL for about a year now with Cabair at Elstree (which i know that no-one seems to like) and have about 48 hours (due to gaps etc)Ive come to my skills test now and i feel that im ready for it. Well now a bit more about me. Just before i started my PPL i had my medical at Elstree, and was told i was colour blind. So i went down to Gatwick and my whole life just crumbled when they told me that i couldnt go commercial. I was 15 at the time and just cried my eyes out. My Mum asked me if i still want ed to fly and im glad that i said yes! At that time i was looking into what i was going to do at collegeand chose to do physics and maths before i found out. But that day, my mind just changed and i decided to do aircraft engineering which i started in September 2001. I quit it in the November because it was so boring and i wanted to think about flying. I now work in Marks and Spencer earning money to fly, but i wanna go back to college in September to do maths and physics in the hope that there will be a cure for colour blindness. Anyway, thats enough about me. Please continue reading if you will.

First Subject.

Skills Test.

Mine is gonna take place on the 23rd of June. Im looking forward to it and have practiced everything there is to it. But the real thing cant be the same as the mocks can it? What else will i need to do? What will i need to say in the speaking part? I know almost everything about the PA-28 but i need to know what he will ask. Im ery confident about it but and help will be greatfully apprciated. (sorry about the spelling)

RT Practical.

Its the last thing ive got to do on the ground and i just need to know what is involved in it? My radio work was really bad at first but now it has dramaically improved so i think it might be ok. I just need to know as much information about it as possible. Again i would be greatful for any help.

Ground Exams.

Take my advice, dont leave them till the last minute. I done 5 exams in the last 5 weeks up to the 18th May. The deadline day came, and at 7.30pm i sat my technical exam and hoped for the best, i couldn't bear to do the air law exam again. Gueuss what, i passed. Thank God

Elstree/AFIS

I know everyone goes on about it, but im really glad that i learnt there becuase of the business of it and all 4 circuits, 4 mile approaches etc. Also i know everyone goes on about the controllers, and i know the moody one (not personally!) but he has never said anything bad to me. Ive heard things that he has said to other people though. On the other hand there is also one of the friendliest controllers your ever gonna meet there as well.

Cabair.

I know that everyone thinks they are a rip-off and i admit it is a bit expensive but i dont have to pay for it all! Thank god for family. But the expensiveness wears off. The have the best instuctors and there are also always aircrft there to fly. And the aircraft are always in a decent condition.

CPL.

This is what i want to get at the end of everything. I know i cant until there is a cure for colour- blindness. I dont know if there is anything i can do so that i can earn money from flying, and ive tried looking at the CAA and FAA websites but cant make head nor tail of them. I would be greatful for anything ideas and help that anyone can give me.

I think thats the end of my essay but if i missed anything out, i will reply to myself. I hope you enjoyed reading this but please no bad comments if you didn't. Plese could you reply in the forum or send me an email if you have any ideas. Thanks for reading again.

Cheers

Ben

[email protected]

[Bluebeard]

Hi Ben

Sorry to hear about yuor colour blindness, this is something which afflicts me as well. Its great that you have such a passion for flying right from the start, if you do want a career in aviation from my lowly position as plan vanilla PPL this seems to be the best way to go about things.

There is a lot of discussion about relating to colour blindness, suggest you have a look at the Medical forum here for some useful tips. All I would say is that don't get your hopes up for a miraculous cure in the short term. Best instead to focus on the here and now, which in your case is approaching very rapidly indeed!

Briefly, don't get too worked up about the Skills Test. You do need to be prepared but you don't need to be perfect on the day, so if you make a mistake don't worry about it and carry on. The examiner wants to see you are a safe pilot, not a perfect one. Explain what you are doing and, if you need to change the way you are doing something, tell him or her.

Clearly you've set your heart on flying. For the foreseeable you may not be able to make a career out of it, the next best thing is to think about how you can do as much of it as possible. Think about a career which pays you enough to fly and gives you the time to do it...definitely worth giving a thought...

Best of luck.

BB

[Wrong Stuff]

Hi Ben,

Sorry to hear about your eye troubles and good luck sorting them out. On the exams and stuff, I've always found education a good investment because it gives you a much wider choice of what you can do, so I'm sure it won't be wasted time whatever career you choose.

For the R/T exam, there's a good example of what to expect in the CAA's safety sense leaflet which you can find here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/ssl22.pdf) . Try not to worry about it too much - it's not a doddle, but if you can handle Elstree and you've read your CAP 413 then it shouldn't be a problem. I thought I'd really made a total hash of mine but still managed to pass!

Know what you mean about Elstree Info - they certainly used to be really bolshy but in the past year or so seem to have mellowed a bit. A couple of weeks ago managed to vacate 08 at A rather than B as I'd been cleared by the controller who gets all the stick - oops! Nipped in to the control tower to apologise and he was as pleasant as could be. I know Cabair's a bit of a walk away, but if you get a chance, pay them a courtesy call - well worth the time spent to see what they do and to put faces to the voices. Wait till the weather's bad and they'll probably be delighted to have somebody to talk to.

Cheers,
Wrong Stuff

[flyboy6876]

Hi Ben

Sorry to hear about the colour blindness, but am impressed with your perseverance in the face of it.

I just completed my skills test a couple of weeks ago and it was'nt as bad as I thought it may be. Actually, in comparison to the mock that my instructor put me through the day before, it was a lot easier. As my examiner said to me - "we all make mistakes, but as long as you keep the aeroplane in control, then there will be no problem."

I don't think I've ever sweated so much as I did that afternoon.

Good luck and safe flying from Oz

[Genghis the Engineer]

Right, lets get this straight, you're bright, motivated, want to fly for a living, but suffer from colour blindness.

First things first, an aeronautics degree is fascinating and opens up many jobs that are entirely around aviation. Some of them (such as for example flight test engineer, which I did for quite a few years and still do occasionally) involve a lot of flying and depending upon where you work may not require a full JAR standard medical (Britten-Norman for example requires a JAR Class 2 from it's FTEs which I imagine you've already got). It is hard work, and so is getting into those sort of jobs afterwards, but I get the impression that itself wouldn't worry you.

Secondly let me introduce you to a CAA form called the FCL 150A/B. This is the medical required to fly as pilot in command of a balloon or microlight. Both have opportunities to fly for a living - the former as a CPL or instructor, the latter as an instructor. Most people who make their living in either also deal a lot with servicing, sales, etc - which to my mind at-least makes it more interesting than JUST flying. The certificate on page 2 says...

"Colour Vision must be assessed (not required for balloon pilots). If colour vision is abnormal the following limitation applies: Valid only at aerodromes or landing grounds where, if Air Traffic Control is provided, it is by means of radio communication".


For the record I'm a Chartered Engineer, who partly earns his living surveying new and modified designs for safety, partly flight testing larger singles and lighter twins as an FTE, partly flight testing microlights as a Test Pilot. I spend my whole life around aeroplanes, do lots of flying, get paid for it fairly well, and although I don't suffer the same problem, none of this is excluded from you by your colour blindness.

Think laterally, good luck, and if you want to talk about specifics either post here or Email me directly.

A couple of final thoughts, the best paid jobs in aviation (apart from members of the board of directors) are airline captains, I don't and you wouldn't be able to make that sort of money. But, £20-£40k at todays rates is not unreasonable in the sort of jobs I point out, which isn't embarrassing. Also, if let's say in 10 years a cure for your colour blindness is found - a microlight instructor or commercial balloon pilot is MUCH better placed to then drop everything and get an ATPL(A) than, say, somebody who is working in retail management or some other totally non-aviation career.

Complements,

Genghis

[foxmoth]

For those with colour blindness I know there has been some success with coloured contact lenses, I don't know the details, it is probably not suitable for ALL types of colour blindness and I don't know how the CAA would look at correcting with lenses (possibly some lobbying and persistence needed here).
Ben, if you thought the PPL exams were hard wait till you try the ATPL ones! (hope you get that far).
Good luck,
Foxmoth

[Whirlybird]

Ben,

Genghis' reply is spot on! Go back to college and get some aviation related qualifications. Never mind if it's boring. You REALLY want boring - try the CPL or ATPL ground exams!!! Nobody but nobody will tell you that they enjoyed any of that, but it's worth being bored for a while if the end result is worth it.

I wouldn't pin your hopes on a cure for colour blindness, as I think it's caused by some missing receptors, and I can't quite think how you'd remedy that. Though that doesn't mean it can't be done in the future. But you'd be better off looking at what you can do now, and you've got loads of useful suggestions here. Good luck!

[englishal]

Ben,

The FAA's rules concerning issuing a Class 1,2 or 3 medical certificate have this to say about 'colour blindness'........

§ 67.103 Eye.

Eye standards for a first-class airman medical certificate are:

(c) Ability to perceive those colors necessary for the safe performance of airman duties

Now it is possible you still may be able to gain a class 1 (ATP) or class 2 (CPL) medical certificate, so I recommend you take a look at
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/infoforpilotsowners/index.htm and maybe write off to the FAA to ask them.

The reason I say this is becasue I know someone who was colour blind, but still got issued a medical certificate. It involved the tower shining lights at him and as long as he could tell the meaning of the lights, a certificate was issued.

Good luck...

EA

[tacpot]

The Skill Test should be just like the mocks! Indeed there should be nothing in the Skill Test that you haven't practised before and nothing which your instructor feels you are not capable of. Put your faith in their judgement that you are ready for the test. They have seen many more candidates than you have!

The Skill Test is a practical demonstration that you are safe to be allowed to learn more about this flying process without the regular supervision of an instructor. If you fail, you need to view the failure as a safety net.

The best preparation is to prepare for the flight mentally. Go through the whole thing planning what you will do and when you will do it. The test is nothing more than a demonstration of everything you have learned to date. The examiner is looking to see that you know the right things to do, and that you are in control of the flight. If there is any aspect of your flying for the test where you are not sure what the correct thing to be doing is, ask questions of your instructor.

One thing I wasn't confident on before the test was diversion planning. If this is something you're worried about, get you instructor to setup a situation for you to give you experience of diversion planning in the air.

Don't worry about the speaking part of the test. You will probably be asked information that comes readily to hand. Make sure you know some the vital speeds for the PA28. If you've passed the aircraft technical exam recently you'll be familar will all the terminology, but it would be worth revising what is unique about the PA28. The oral test was perfunctory in my case, because I had done all my studying with that school, had only ever flown in the type of aircraft being used for the test and had been haging around the maintenance hanger talking to the engineers about Cessna 152s for months. I think the oral part of the skill test was put in to allow the examiner to check that the candidate knew how to operate all the aircraft systems before they got off the ground, especially in the case where the examiner is not familar with the aircraft, or indeed where the candidate is not familar with the aircraft that the test is to be taken in. This will not apply in your case. For my own interest I'd be interested knowning how many questions you were actually asked on the day. (Perhaps you could e-mail me)

There have been other posts on PPrune regarding test preparation, search them out and follow the advice, especially about getting a good night's sleep the night before.

Do relax as you will perform better than if you are stressed out.

Good luck.

[slim_slag]

It involved the tower shining lights at him and as long as he could tell the meaning of the lights, a certificate was issued.

The FAA official would have issued a SODA - Statement of Demonstrated Ability. You take it with you to your medical and the doctor will ignore the problems the SODA covers.

Deaf, one eyed, paralysed from the waist down, and colour blind people are happily and safely flying in the US - but this guy is in the UK. Best bet for bd01uk is for the CAA/JAA to be dragged into the 21st century and introduce sensible and reasonable medical standards. It may be hard to believe, but there is more chance of that happening soon than a cure for colour blindness.

[bd01uk]

Hello again.

Thanks for all of your help. Everyone gave me a decent answer that will maybe help me with my life. One thing i was considering was going to America to TRY and get an FAA Class 1. I'm not sure if its worth it though. I hope the CAA see sense.
Again, thanks to everyone and I will let you know how i got on with both tests.

Ben

[slim_slag]

No need to go to the US to get a FAA medical, they have AMEs in the UK too. Make sure they can do a class 1, if that is what you want.

AME by Country (http://ame.cami.jccbi.gov/search.asp?search=country)

If you are deemed to be colour blind, and FAA regs are not as strict on this definition, your FAA medical will be endorsed "not valid for night flight". You will then need to get a SODA, and I think practically you will need to get that in the US. You will still be able to get your FAA PPL and fly day VFR under the FAA regs before you get the SODA. If you want to get your FAA licence, you may as well do it all in the US at the same time.

I am not sure why you would go the FAA route just to get around CAA medical restrictions. If you don't have a US passport/green card you will not be able to work as a commerical pilot in the US, and an FAA medical certificate isn't going to be any use if you want to fly for the airlines in Europe.