Ease up on U.S. airport screening?

[I. M. Esperto]

Recieved from AVFlash, daily subscription:

"Officials at the 39 most passenger-laden airports
warned in a May 29 letter to the secretary of transportation that the
air travel industry will be seriously wounded unless Congress delays the
Dec. 31 deadline for screening all bags. The letter, quoted in The New
York Times, states that if the screening process imposes more than a 10-
minute wait, "the result will be an unacceptable level of passenger
service further jeopardizing the perilous state of the aviation
industry." American Airlines agrees. Thought the carrier was the first
to lose an aircraft on 9/11, AA's boss, Don Carty, recently told the
American Chamber of Commerce in Tokyo that extra security measures --
and the extra time delay and hassle they add -- may be driving business away."

Opinions?

Personally, I think it's time for this.

[OldAg84]

In light of the fact that I was pretty much waved through security on 5/23 at BWI- after I beeped the machine- I say no (the details are in JB). And note- BWI is apparently the first fully staffed TSA airport.

Frankly, I think the random searches are an exercise- most often it seems the randomly pick 82 Y/O women. I'll grant it's a balance between providing security and convenience at the same time. But I'd rather be safe.

When I read what happended at the FBI and CIA I feel certain someone dropped the ball. They may not have stopped at the hijackings- but then again they might have.

I'm for more security- I'm also for not blabbing our security measures about in the media. I don't have a need to know what goes on behind the scenes.

[kriskross]

My wife and I travelled through Chicago en-route to Phoenix on Memorial day, 27th May, on America West, and thank goodness we checked in 2 hours prior to departure rather than the 30 mins stated even now in their literature.

We were specially selected by the computer for detailed screening, while our bags were left unattended by the check- in staff in the middle of the passenger concourse for 30 mins, and we answered all sorts of questions about who we were, why we were travelling etc, why I only had a one way ticket, crew member travelling to pick up an aircraft on a correct visa. We were taken with our bags for a full x-ray screening, taking another 30 mins, including opening a bag to reveal our duty free.

Another set of questions at the security gate, and my lap top taken apart.

Arrive at the gate, to be taken aside by more security staff, and given another thorough going over with shoes off, mobile phone demonstrating that it worked, again the laptop opened powered up etc, with very few pleases or thank yous from the staff. Got on the aircraft 10 mins prior to doors close.

Can anyone explain to me why, at Seattle, passengers are x-rayed and searched AFTER getting off the aircraft, passing through immigration and customs, and going landside? That one I can't work out.

It seems to be the variations almost at a whim between US airports that causes the confusion, and I DO understand the feelings in the US with regard to foreign passengers, it's just that I thought we were on the same side!!!

[PaperTiger]

Can anyone explain to me why, at Seattle, passengers are x-rayed and searched AFTER getting off the aircraft, passing through immigration and customs, and going landside? That one I can't work out.

This 'feature' actually predates Sept. 11th. It only applies to the South Terminal which is where all international flights tie up. I don't remember exactly when they instituted it ('twas not always so), but I think it was about the time the direct flights from Magadan,Russia started. I agree it makes no sense to be screened if you're leaving the airport, but there appears to be no way of separating the flows of connecting and final destination pax.

[kriskross]

Thanks, always wondered!!

[I. M. Esperto]

I can't believe what the USA has turned into.

It is one big phony fiasco.

[Apollo 1]

I am in total agreement with the security measures taken at airports in the US. In fact, it should be more stringent. More questions , criminal checks, etc, etc. I would feel a whole lot safer knowing that airlines, airports and government are doing their best to prevent some wacko from doing his deed for Islam, Al-queda, taliban or some other fanatical group of nutjobs.

I'll wait three hours to board a flight if I have to. As long as I have piece of mind that my children, family or co-workers are going to be safe when flying.

[THE PIPELINE]

I always thought all baggage was put through an x-ray machine when you checked in, and whenever ive flown, hand baggage was put through an x-ray machine, i had to walk through metal detection gates, and if the alarm was raised, i was promptly frisked. Is this not standard procedure in the US? Would it not be easier to start from this, then beef up the security as neccissary?

:confused:

[edited cause i cant spell]

[Orca strait]

Apollo 1- All security issues should be dealt with on the ground, however, as the following article indicates, putting all of our security eggs in one basket may not be a wise move...
Agents at SLC Airport Filed Olympic Security Complaint (http://www.sltrib.com/2002/jun/06032002/utah/742419.htm)

[GrandPrix]

"Suckurity" in the USA continues to be the biggest sham.
We are no safer today than we were on Sept. 10.
Oh yeah, the flying public looks araound the terminal and "feels" safer, but they do not realize that nothing has changed.
Rampers still get on the property without any kind of ID check or bag search. Most checked baggage on domestic flights goes straight to the aircraft without so much as a glance. Not allowed to profile because the benevolent, all knowing government says that it is wrong to use the most effective tool in our arsenal. The National Guard soldiers are suspected of being armed with guns that carry no bullets.
Maybe we should concentrate on a total overhaul of federal (do nothing) government and than fix the problem with aviation "suckurity".

[jetstar21]

Having just returned from a trip to the USA I can assure you that my advice to others is go by all means but don't travel internally by air. I held tickets on American but after 3 flights decided to rent a car and continue that way rather than subject myself or my partner to further orders and abuse when all we wished to do was travel safely to our destinations and then enjoy ourselves.
I have just returned 4 coupons for refund and have been advised that many others are doing the same and the current situation is a bonanza for the car rental companies. This means that the airlines are missing ou and the situation must be addressed. To assist, the security personnel who now have a job must realise that travellers are not low life to be harrassed.

[OldAg84]

To clarify my personal experience-

The machined beeped and I was told to go over and be hand checked. Fine. But nobody "handed-me off" to the hand screener.
So I could have walked. But instead, I did the right thing, got screened, and then complained.

Maybe a coupon system, you are handed a sheet or card which must be presented to clear security.

It is abysmal.

[EuroWanker]

Security is a joke. Managed to walk in and out through 3 terminals in one airport directed by staff with no checks.

I did drink water out of my bottle to show it was not poisoned, took a bite out of all my food to prove that was not poisoned, gave myself medical drugs to prove that I could carry them on board, took my shoes off, got felt up by a member of the opposite sex in the name of security, told I was a F****** foreigner , so they could do what they liked.

did I feel safer, no.

they do not know what they are doing!

I totally agree with improved secuiyry, but not the complete bollox that the US calls security

:confused:

[askcv]

The latest huge power grab by the US federal Govt is just another example of how the 9/11 situation has been hijacked by the politicians for their own agrandizement. It is sickening to me how the American public allows themselves to be tricked and fooled on a daily basis.

Never mind the useless "enhanced security" as practiced in the US, what about the sharp end? There were four airplanes taken by terrorists, armed with only box cutters, and out-numbered ten to one. Three ended up being used to murder thousands more, but one failed to do so, being brought down in a field instead. Although I would have hoped for a beter outcome, at least the passengers did try to take the airplane back. Why did the other passengers not also try to recover, or better, prevent the takeover?

The answer was, of course, that the flight crew and passengers were following government and airline policy; to cooperate with the hijackers. Unfortunately that policy was wrong, but at the time we did not know it. Now we know better. Or do we?

I am still waiting for the FAA to come up with a better recommendation. Until they do, 9/11 can happen again.

[BOING]

What you must understand is that nothing that is EVER done by a politician in the US has anything to do with the greater good of the population. Actions of politicians have one aim TO GET RE-ELECTED. This is why you see millions of dollars worth of unrelated items attached to the national security bill. This is why you see masses of totally useless security procedures put in to effect WHERE THE PUBLIC CAN SEE THEM while gaping holes exist in security behind the scenes. American politicians are the most cynical bunch of slimy low lifes ever to reach a position of national importance. Until this mess is cleaned up the security services and the military will never be truly effective. Unfortunately, so many US voters are "one issue" voters that they can be bought off by these crooks and hence the crooks get returned to power.
The security screening in the US will become more sloppy and inefficient, just like every other government run institution. (Except that the government seems to be very keen to chase malcontents by invading their privacy. Only for the national good of course).

[mutt]

I recently took a flight from Jeddah, Saudi Arabia to New York. I had a bucktool (leatherman) in my checked luggage. No body complained about it or even mentioned it. From New York I flew to and from Seattle with the same Bucktool.

When I tried checking in for the return flight to Saudi, I was told that the Bucktool couldn’t remain in my CHECKED LUGGAGE because it had a 2 inch blade. Nobody could explain to me how I was expected to climb into the hold of a B744, find my bag and remove the knife!

The security were nice about it, they just said NO, go see the airline, the airline said NO, go see security! They pointed out that I could carry an unloaded RIFLE or SHOTGUN in the hold, but not a knife :D The airline finally agreed to FedEx the bucktool to a US address at their expense and sent me off to the First Class lounge to get some free beer.

This sort of crap really takes the fun out of flying in the USA.

Mutt.


Just to add, I noted that the ACLU filed cases against a number of airlines for removing middle eastern men from flights last year. Do you really think that you can fight terrorism and respect civil liberties at the same time?

[InitRef]

Mutt,

Quote - Just to add, I noted that the ACLU filed cases against a number of airlines for removing middle eastern men from flights last year. Do you really think that you can fight terrorism and respect civil liberties at the same time? End-Quote

Interesting question - however, in the ACLU example, two out of the 5 men weren't even Muslim nor Middle Eastern (unless "new geography" says that India and the Philippines are in the Middle East)

Also, according to the details from the ACLU website http://www.aclu.org/features/f060402a.html
the men were taken off aircraft because pax or crew did not like what the men looked like, and if the men were truly security risks - they were not searched or questioned - but just put on the next flight!!!

I find it much easier to accept profiling and putting these people through extra/rigorous security checks,
but pulling them off aircraft just because a pax is "uncomfortable" with the color of their skin - and even allowing their bags to stay on the original aircraft - is wrong.

[GrandPrix]

Great post BOING!!
There is one govt. agency that is efficient: the IRS.

[RevMan2]

FRA-LAX last week, LAX-FRA yesterday.

The security process in FRA (check-in to gate lounge) took close to 90 minutes during a moderately busy traffic period - X-ray for checked luggage, 2 security screenings for hand luggage and person,
ID check at the gate.
Security in LAX?
About 10 minutes for the same process and distance. No requirement to power-up the notebook, no inspection of all the electronic clutter in my hand luggage, no requirement to taste food, drink

I was, however, intrigued by the presence of 10 (ten) Customs officials milling around on the airbridge during boarding.
Shouldn't they have been at arrivals....?

[Jump Complete]

We're a long way from perfect over here. I went through security at BOH as a PAX and realised just before I got there I still had my Leatherman on my belt. My baggage was already checked in. I put it in the tray with my watch, keys etc to go through the E-Ray convayor, and appologiesed for it, fully expecting it to be taken off me. THey didn't even raise and eye-brow, just handed it back to me. As far as they were concered I was an ordinary passenger. And there's no lockable flight deck door on the BN2A-MkIII's on The Channel Island runs! In fact, I was next to the pilot!
At ACI the security wan't there for the first and last flights, as they were based in Gernsey and flew across each day, and if wx had closed ACI first thing, there were several flights going out with no checks at all. Then when they were there they carefully frisked an eighty year old woman and the air and ground crew (who'd been talking to them over coffee that morning and each subsequent morning that week.) In fact staff who wanted to get out on the ramp just walked out the front of the terminal, into the staff cark park and through an open gate straight onto the ramp to avoid the hassles of the 'security.' Now I'm not saying pilots etc shouldn't be checked. After all, its not hard to put on a uniform etc. Just that checks should be done with a bit more common sense. At a small airport like ACI, is it realy necersary to delay the pilot who was sitting at the controls of aircraft, just in front of you, when you flew in that morning, to check he should be there? Especialy when a terroist could ,at the time he's digging through his pockets for his pass, have walked straight onto the ramp via the side gate and planted a bomb on the aircraft? The attitude seems to be "We'll do whats written down then we're OK" regardless of common sense or the glaring gaps in the system.

[Taildragger67]

I recently went from a major European hub, via an East Coast gateway, to a west-coast destination, with a major US carrier. Had to go through the standard security to get into the departures area, but then at the gate (we were told to get there well early), was only allowed into the holding room four-at-a-time where they did a comprehensive manual check (including shoes). I was treated courteously at all times and I responded in kind. One gentlemen who tried to make a scene was (very courteously) informed that he could exercise his right to decline to be checked, but then the carrier could exercise its right to refuse him carriage. he shut up & removed his shoes.
In the US, I was alarmed that I did not have to pass through ANY checks between the gate where I arrived and the gate for the connecting flight, despite that concourse being packed with people and flights from many different carriers (so tha carrier I flew with had no guarantee as to where others had come from).
Leaving the west coast for my return, I was randomly selected for a search (I later noticed my boarding card had been marked at check-in) - again, very thorough and courteous - I made a point of being courteous to the checkers and they remarked that I was unusual in that respect - so I must conclude that if punters are rude to them, they will be rude back- and fair enough. Again, sod-all checks at the east-coast gateway to come back to Europe.

So it appears to me that people OUTSIDE the major east-coast centres are taking security far more seriously than those in the cities which are most likely to be targets next time. There is much gnashing of teeth over the government here - but they will listen to the public, so why are you wasting time writing to PPRUNE and not to your local newspaper of congressman?? Why are those in the industry not taking industrial action? Can you seriously tell me that the papers would not LOVE to take the side of an airline worker sacked for blowing the whistle on lax security??

[HercBird]

Ever since September 11th I have been in about 10 flights within the U.S . Most of them have been into/out of La Guardia in New York. The following has happened:

In Atlanta on September 21st my lighter was taken away from me. I bought another one in the stores by the gate. It cost me $2.50 to have a cigarette before my flight.

In Houston in January security asked me if I had a zippo lighter in my laptop bag. I said yes and they asked if they could see it. Then the security person put it to the side and said thank you.... I said I wanted my lighter back, they said I'd have to check it... I gave it to a friend that thank god had bid me goodbye by the security check. Next to my zippo, I had a bic, which I could keep but hey terrorists only use zippos, right ?

Between Houston and New York, 4 hour flights, I get served pretzels, if I am lucky a cold sandwich, because they cannot provide food that requires knives...

In New York, after I have been rebooked on another airline due to a delay making my connection impossible, my bag is rechecked. I told them I am trying to make an early flight, the bag has already been checked by the other airline (as the tags showed) 30 minutes ago. No, since I am rechecking in from another airline I need to be rechecked. Ok. I miss the early flight. The next one gets cancelled, I get booked on a morning flight. I ask if I can leave my checked luggage with them. No I cannot. On the third flight I get rechecked. Again opened my bag, took everything out, put it back in.

In Houston again I lose another flight cause someone takes their time checking my bag. Checked in 1 hour 30 minutes before my flight on a Sunday morning. When I had called they had said 60 minutes. Takes me about 12 hours to make it to New York cause of diversions and delays due to weather later on in the day (usually a 4 hour flight). I was one of the lucky ones that got on a 9 pm from Pittsburgh as a standby. Of course they wouldn't pay for a hotel cause it was due to weather now....

Have had to take shoes off, every single time. Even sandals were taken off. Have been frisked every single time. Have taken laptops apart, turned on and off cellphones.

I am a Greek citizen that has lived in the US the last 7.5 years. My "criminal" record consists of 2 speeding tickets. I pay full taxes. Went to a good school here, carry the ring. Have a very slight accent. I now work for a software company and carry all of my visa papers, all in order, for every trip. I always check in with my state-issued driver's license which does not denote my citizenship. I am usually dressed business casual, very clean appearance and travel with my laptop. I am an able male, 25 years old. My full first name is 12 characters.

My father, 60 years old, a diabetic has been harassed for an hour worth of "security" for check-in. His background, he is a retired Air Force 2-star general for Greece, a NATO country. He has held "top secret" NATO clearance and above. He is still harassed for over an hour for an internal flight while he has just flown across the Atlantic into New York 2 days before and has proof of it. He can still disable almost any man with his bare arms.

Why am I writing all this ? Well, I would have no objection what-so-ever to it, none at all, had I not witnessed on 3 different occassions, in two different airports, airport employees complaining about losing their security id cards and just been waved through. On one occassion, when one of the 18-year-old employees was getting a replacement id, to go to the ramp and find a piece of luggage, the other employee that gave it to him just said "What is it, the 3rd one this week ?". Those ids of course could never end up in terrorists' hands.

But hell, just as long as they are full-blooded Americans around the planes, they are safe right ? Should I just mention Oklahoma City here ?

Do I need a lighter or a plastic knife provided to me for food to assault someone on a plane ? No. Does anyone trained in hand-to-hand combat need it ? No. Can a terrorist get a gun on a plane. Sure, all he needs is a damn airport id. The scum that did this back in September, just thought it was too much trouble for something they did not need.

Does anyone believe that the locked-door concept is going to work ? Do not pilots need to take a leak ? These doors cannot be broken into ? Or even simpler, if someone threatens passengers' lives, even starts killing people in the cabin, does anyone think that the pilots will not open the door ?

TNT is playing "Executive Decision". Is it not ironic that there has never been a high-jacking that has had weapons loaded in Athens ? But sure, everyone else's security sucks and is not safe, but the US.

So can everyone stop the BSing and either make flights safe or stop harassing everyone ? I do not mind security checks, I have gone through them for the whole of my life. I was at RheinDahlen when the IRA attacked. Have had a lot of real security checks.

Do not get me wrong. I love this country and living here. If I didn't, I would leave, plain and simple. It is just some of the pretentious BS and ignorance that I cannot stand....

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[SK]

Nothing to do with knives. It was part of the service cutbacks most airlines went through.

Between Houston and New York, 4 hour flights, I get served pretzels, if I am lucky a cold sandwich, because they cannot provide food that requires knives