UK PPL/IR

[Jsd]

I am aware there has been much debate around the subject of IR(R)/IMC rating in the UK on this forum however i am yet to find a definitive answer to my question on previous threads.

I am a PPL holder and would like to be able to fly to other countries in Europe under IFR/IMC conditions should weather deteriorate and be able to return to the UK without the worry of getting stuck or grounded due to wx.

What ratings do i need?

IMC/IR(R) is not recognised outside UK airspace so this is of no use.

What is the difference between Enroute IR & Competency based IR (CBIR) privelages? EIR doesn't allow for approaches?

Would one need both of these qualifications?

Thanks in advance

[AdamFrisch]

If you need dispatch reliability, you'll need a full IR. It's painful, but it's actually getting easier to do under EASA. It used to be even worse. From someone who just did it in FAA world, make no mistake, it's a hard rating to do. I think most people would agree on that. It's very procedural and information heavy. But it's a great rating to have and very useful. And ultimately, flying IFR and being part of the system, treated as an equal to airlines, is fun. It's rewarding and elevates your game. You won't regret it.

I did an intensive 10-day course here (it was actually 11, because I did it in a twin) and that was the best way forward for me personally. I have a very bad memory, so eating, sleeping, dreaming IFR for 11 days worked best for me to just get it done.

[BillieBob]

There is no such thing as a 'Competency based IR'. There is, however, a competency based course that leads to the issue of an Instrument Rating but gives credit for previous instrument instruction and experience.

Your alternatives, therefore, are:

IMC Rating (entered into an EASA licence as an IR(R)) - valid only in the UK
En-route Instrument Rating - valid throughout Europe but does not permit IFR departures or approaches
Instrument Rating - full IFR privileges throughout Europe (and beyond)

Clearly, if you hold an IR (whichever course you followed), you do not need an EIR or IMC Rating

[phiggsbroadband]

Hi BillieBob, can you tell us how many hours (or days) are required for each of your three options, I believe that the IMC IR-R is just 15 hours, post PPL.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I believe that the IMC IR-R is just 15 hours
Not for me it wasn't - but you might be better at it of course :-)

[stevelup]

There is no such thing as a 'Competency based IR'

Top pedantry... To everyone else, this new way of getting an IR is known as the Competency Based IR! Although it makes no practical difference, an IR issued this way even mentions it in the comments next to the rating.

Hi BillieBob, can you tell us how many hours (or days) are required for each of your three options, I believe that the IMC IR-R is just 15 hours, post PPL.

IR(R) - 15 hours of dual instruction

EIR - 15 hours of instruction of which at least 10 must be at an ATO

CB-IR - 40 hours of instruction of which at least 10 must be at an ATO, and an overall total of 25 hours instruction. In other words, you can count 15 hours of 'experience' towards it. You could also potentially count the whole of your IR(R) training as well... see below.

Quite a few people (myself included) are doing the IR(R) and then moving on to the CB-IR. If you do this, make sure whoever is training you for the IR(R) knows that your long term aim is the CB-IR. They can drum other useful stuff into you that they may otherwise overlook.

Ideally, there's an argument for doing the IR(R) with an organisation that also offers the CB-IR as they will have experience of the kinds of good practice that will be useful when you move onto the CB-IR.

[Jsd]

Thanks for the response guys!

So just to clarify:

Taking a competency based IR course will lead to a full IR valid in Europe, giving the holder departure, approach and en route privileges? and up to 15 hours of IMC/IR(R) and EIR training can be counted towards the IR qualification obtained by taking the CB-IR course?

Also can anyone shed any light on the theory requirements? Just one written test? Is it at a similar level to ATPL theory?

Just want to be sure im spending my money in the right places and have the correct path set out in my mind.

Thanks
J

[stevelup]

Taking a competency based IR course will lead to a full IR valid in Europe, giving the holder departure, approach and en route privileges? and up to 15 hours of IMC/IR(R) and EIR training can be counted towards the IR qualification obtained by taking the CB-IR course?

It's not limited to 15 hours. If it took you 30 hours to get your IR(R) (!) then it would all count.

It's unlikely that many people would use the EIR as a stepping stone in this process though.

Also can anyone shed any light on the theory requirements? Just one written test? Is it at a similar level to ATPL theory?

There are new exams that have a lot of the irrelevant stuff stripped out. It is theoretically possible to do all the new exams in one day now... although that is actually currently -impossible- because you can't actually book them on the same day!

The seven exams have the same titles as before - Air Law, Instruments, Met, Flight Planning, Human Performance, Radio Nav and IFR Comms.

Have a look here (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/propilots-new-competency-based-ir-theory-course/) as one example. You can download free samples of each book.

You should consider contacting Rate One Aviation (http://www.rateoneaviation.com) - Jim Thorpe was instrumental in bringing the CB IR to fruition.

[Whopity]

If it took you 30 hours to get your IR(R) (!) then it would all count. Not necessarily:
(i) When the applicant has:
(A) completed instrument flight instruction provided by an IRI(A) or an FI(A)
holding the privilege to provide training for the IR; or
(B) prior flight time under IFR as PIC on aeroplanes, under a rating providing
the privileges to fly under IFR and in IMC these hours may be credited towards the 40 hours above up to maximum of 30 hours, Many FIs teaching the IR(R) are not so qualified!

[BEagle]

Many FIs teaching the IR(R) are not so qualified!

100% wrong on that, Whopity. The UK CAA cleared that up a year ago - the clause includes IR(R) instructors!

[Whopity]

Then why did they not amend the CAP 804 in October?
There is now so much contradictory information floating about that nobody has a clue what is going on!