ETOPS vs EDTO for twins

[alatriste]

Extended Diversion Time Operations has just been implemented in my company. Just minor differences when comparing with previous ETOPS rule.
Adequate and suitable airport definitions are no longer in use, so that all enroute alternates are just ERAs.
According to new ERA definition weather conditions must be considered.
EDTO dispatch is required when flying beyond 60 min out of ERA.
Up until recently it was legal (maybe not wise) to fly within 60 min to adequate airports without any additional dispatch requirements. Good examples are routes between Europe and Japan overflying Siberia for 6 hours when all forecast weather for airports such as Sykytvkar,Surgut,Krasnoyarsk etc are quite marginal on winter season.
My question is: Is now a EDTO dispatch required to fly these routes if weather is marginal over these airports?
Could be these airports be considered as ERAs even if forecast weather is very poor?

Maybe I misunderstood something.

Thanks.

[ItsMeFromEarth]

As per ICAO doc
EDTO alternate An en‐route alternate aerodrome that
is designated in a dispatch or flight release for use in the
event of a diversion during an EDTO flight, and which
meets the applicable dispatch minima (weather and field
conditions). This definition applies to flight planning and
does not in any way limit the authority of the
pilot‐in‐command during flight.
Note.— En‐route alternate aerodromes may also be the
take‐off and/or destination aerodromes.

[HPSOV L]

I guess that means yes, you will need an EDTO plan if an ERA (which infers wx reqs are met) is not within 60 mins?

[alatriste]

My point is, it´s still legal to fly a route always within 60 minutes to enroute alternate airports even though weather conditions are below minima?

[HPSOV L]

Me too, I'd like to know

[c100driver]

My question is: Is now a EDTO dispatch required to fly these routes if weather is marginal over these airports?
Could be these airports be considered as ERAs even if forecast weather is very poor?

Adequate is still in the EDTO rules. Technically if all the airports on your route are adequate for type of aircraft (Length, strength, approach and RFS) and within 60min still air single engine then you don't need EDTO and don't need to have ERA that have weather above en-route minimums. Maybe not smart but legal.

The major difference (apart from the fire suppression and fuel requirements) between ETOPS and EDTO is the definition requirement of an entry/exit point. ETOPs the flight was ETOPs from takeoff until landing, EDTO the operator must define an entry point and an exit point. i.e. the first time the flight is beyond 60 min and when the flight can remain within 60 minutes until landing. Within the entry/exit the flight must have "filed ERA" and monitoring of the weather and airport availability and a fuel quantity sufficient to divert in the worst case i.e. 1EO or DP or 1EO and DP.

In answer to your second question you can divert to where ever you like, it does not have to be a filed ERA.

[alatriste]

Thank you C100driver.
It seems that my company didnot provide enough info regarding new rules.
Is there any website to check EDTO regulations?
:ok:

[c100driver]

ICAO annex six covers the process as a whole but it is difficult to navigate.

AIRBUS has a good summary that is searchable but a little lite on detail.

The best "regulator source" that is clear and understandable is the New Zealand CAA. Most flights from New Zealand are ETDO so they are well versed in EDTO.

Part 121 - Air Operations - Large Aeroplanes (http://www.caa.govt.nz/rules/Part_121_Brief.htm)

[alatriste]

Once again, thank you very much C100. Very useful information.
on 121.165 adequate aerodrome concept it is still used so I understand that EDTO rule is only for routes flying beyond 60 min. Therefore, still legal to fly over Rusia on winter with very marginal weather if within 60 min to any adequate airport.
No changes respect to ETOPS rule refering to this topic.

[compressor stall]

An Australia, although having had EDTO for some time, has just brought the threshold trigger for EDTO back from 90 to 60 mins. Begins July 1 next year.