United 777

[witwiw]

United 777 seen in CBR this morning. Any ideas why it's here?

[Warm Ballast]

Passengers furious as United Airlines plane stuck on tarmac in Canberra - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-12/united-airlines-plane-stuck-on-tarmac-at-canberra/5963202)

[harrryw]

I am sure the US would not allow entry of passengers at one of their domestic only airports and would have left people on board in the same manner and would have rejected crew criticism..
I am sure soap and toilet paper and food and drink however would have been allowed to cross the immigration barrier to the plane so failure to ensure that it was not in the toilets would seem to be an airline fault.

[Capt Claret]

Lucky they weren't arrested and thrown into gaol, as a young Australian was in the US some time ago. IIRC she didn't realise that a tech stop for fuel qualified as her entry date into the U.S., and was subsequently arrested for overstaying her visa.

[onehitwonder]

250 pax roaming around the RAAF apron, last time we went in the CJ, we had MP's at the door waiting for us to leave

[BNEA320]

one passenger should have just complained about chest pains & then they could have got off.

[ozbiggles]

There is something very wrong with the system if this is the best the airline involved could come up with.
I'm sure there will be a few American passengers on the phone to their lawyers...and probably rightly so on this occasion.

[Capt Fathom]

if this is the best the airline involved could come up with

Would be interested to hear your solution ozbiggles!

[jportzer]

There is something very wrong with the system if this is the best the airline involved could come up with.
I'm sure there will be a few American passengers on the phone to their lawyers...and probably rightly so on this occasion. Oh please, what exactly was the pain and suffering here? The passengers could stay on the plane in their seat if they wanted to, or they had the option for a walk in some gorgeous sunny Australian weather. It was sunny and about 15 degrees - perhaps a bit chilly if you didn't have a jumper, but still a bit warmer than the point of departure.

They were provided food and although the line-up behind the food truck is a bit comical, it's hardly pain and suffering. I'm sure people who physically needed to be brought food in the plane would have been provided it.

The airline apparently had spare pilots in Sydney and got them to Canberra as quickly as might be imagined in such a scenario. If they didn't have this option they would have needed to charter Qantas or Virgin planes to fly them back to Sydney anyway, right, given that Canberra isn't a port of entry? How much extra delay would that have added? It would have separated them from their baggage too.

What exactly would you propose they do differently?

[Wunwing]

Maybe divert domestic flights and keep the available runway for internationals?
That would at least solve the customs/immigration and quarantine problems.
Oh I forgot. The "suits" woudn't like the inconvenience.
Wunwing

[4 Holer]

Amazing.......... If you do not have Customs at the National Capital of your country divert a domestic 767 there and let the 777 land at the International Airport.
Imagine no customs at Washington, Even the Congo have customs at the Capital.


Backward, Backward, Backward but think your the world leader in everything.

[Wunwing]

No domestic B767s here anymore. All in the desert.
Wunwing

[Ramjager]

Exactly what 4 holer said.
What sort of backward hillbilly country do we live in that has a national capital without customs.
As the aircraft diverted because it was low on fuel caused by a drama in Sydney it is covered by the ICAO laws which we are a signatory to.
So what the crew is out of hours so cant fly..now they cant rest as they cant go to a hotel at Hickville southern hemisphere has no customs unless your a politician.
Good luck solving this one.
I would imaging relief crew would be unable to board as they are in Australia and the aircraft technically isnt as are the pax and crew and god knows we cant mix them with us!
Welcome to Australia the worlds most backward advanced country!

[4 Holer]

A Qantas A330 then, AUS is an Island though and these things happen with locals and Island mentality ???

[Wunwing]

I once was on a B747 crew that diverted to Adelaide when it was purely domestic, due to East Coast going to fog.

Federal Police wouldnt let me off.Customs was supplied from the docks and when they arrived they would not let me (the FE) off the aircraft either . As I was the only person on the airport who was authorised to fuel a B747 this was now a problem as we were rapidly running out of hours.No one would make a decision until they could call Canberra at 9AM.I pointed out that if they had to fly in someone to refuel our aircraft we were going to be there for a very long while and anyway I still had to do my walkaround.No answer.
Eventually someone in Canberra was found and we made it to Sydney right on our 16 hours.I wanted to refuse and get off in ADL just to make them look like fools but the others talked me out of it.

Next day I got a rocket from my boss because I "refused" to fuel the aircraft at ADL. Bit hard to refuel from the flightdeck.No one at Mascot would initially believe our story but it happened. Looks like 35 years on, nothing has changed.

Wunwing

[crewmeal]

Why the hell didn't he choose MEL where they have full customs and immigration facilities? Most other International carriers do:ugh:

[Wunwing]

I suspect that they didn't have enough fuel for anywhere but Canberra.
Wunwing

[onehitwonder]

And Melbourne had delays

[Qantas 787]

Forget the reason for the delay or the airline - it is embarrassing that our national capital can't handle this situation. Welcome to Australia indeed - how third rate do we look as a nation?

[ACMS]

This isn't the first diversion to CBR and I suspect it won't be the last.

If there are no scheduled Intl ops into CBR how can they be expected to proved CIQ coverage for these one a month events?

There must be some pre-planning that could go into such events however to make it a little easier next time.

[ozbiggles]

Seeing you asked
1. Pay for customs to clear them in CB and then bus them to Sydney.
2. Bus them under 'supervision' to Sydney to clear customs.

I'm sure there are some other common dog solutions to this problem. We should be a clever country. If people In the system couldn't figure out a faster way than this, God help us all.
But if you would be happy to volunteer to sit on an aircraft on a tarmac all day for the first day of your holiday or business trip in Oz I would be happy for you to take my spot.:ok:

[Wunwing]

As I said earlier, why didn't they just divert domestics and save runways for internationals while they sorted the runway problems?

Poor planning?

[onehitwonder]

why give international priority over domestic?

[cbradio]

Interesting seeing journos chatting to the punters through a fence and even shaking hands.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

And, Punters wandering around an 'active Tarmac area'.......

And, not a "hi-vis" vest in sight.......

Cheers:}

[Ichiban]

Does anyone know, what was the debris that closed the runway?

How long was the runway closed?

[Cargo744]

Runway was closed for about 40mins due to rubber between concrete blocks coming loose and exposing wiring.

[Arnold E]

What exactly would you propose they do differently?

How about provide the service that was paid for, before departure. :ugh:

[Cargo744]

probably because the airline chose so... really???

[HotPete]

Why didnt they divert to Badgery's Creek?
.... oh, sorry .... I've just been told Badgery's still hasnt been finished 30 years on.

[ACMS]

I was just putting the question out there because I too could be needing to last minute divert to CBR as an international one day and it would be nice to know that someone has thought it through.

Especially if I'm unexpectedly arriving at midnight, after a long day low on fuel and low on flight duty hours:ooh:

CBR really is a "last resort"

[V-Jet]

Mate of mine called me this morning and told me a Phillipines A340 had a 'sizeable' tail strike on landing at SYD (RWY16?). Spectacular spark display. Understand the trippler was diverted due runway debris... Assume related?

[Capt Fathom]

if this is the best the airline involved could come up with
Seeing you asked
1. Pay for customs to clear them in CB and then bus them to Sydney.
2. Bus them under 'supervision' to Sydney to clear customs.

Sorry Ozbiggles, piss poor response really!

You bagged United for not doing enough....!

Then blame the clever country for an inadequate system!

:confused::confused:

[Capn Bloggs]

Mr Constantine said the pilot had apologised profusely and criticised the local authorities in Canberra for not being flexible and understanding.
He could have apologised profusely for not carrying International Alternate fuel...

What a crock. UA didn't know/think of this scenario before it happened? How long have they been flying to Oz? :cool:

[ozbiggles]

I beg to differ captain
Yours Is the piss poor response

Do you just want to criticise, or do you have something constructive to add?

Take a demotion private.

Captain (pvt) Fathom that is, Captain Bloggs carry on

[Ozmd]

Exactly. Will the 'Visa obssessed'Americans let them in if a similar situation happened there? Imagine them radioing with the yankee accent "weev gota bunch of aliens holed up in the tarmac... send reinforcements...i repeat send reinforcements"
To the best of my knowledge they call everyone else aliens...at least we treated them like humans. They shouldnt get irate - its just the taste of their own medicine. I have heard stories about how they treat people in their visa offices of usa in countries like india - poor talented educated lads being treated like cows and donkeys and made to stand in mile long queues only to be harassed by some idiot visa officials after being holed up into their premises. And then they use them for slave labour in usa! Mate, it is them that are third world!!
Proud to be an Aussie :)

[Capn Bloggs]

Captain Bloggs carry on
Phew! For a minute there, I thought I might have to sit to the right of Clarrie... :)

[witwiw]

Sorry, how many runways are there at SYD? Last time I counted there were three (maybe six depending on how you look at it) so how does debris on one runway cause a diversion? Even if the debris was at the i/section of 25/16R which might close both, what about 16L (or 34R depending on the wind)?


Surely a triple at the end of a trans-Pacific flight would find 16L/34R long enough!!!!

[le Pingouin]

How precisely is the 777 to get priority? There was no fuel emergency. They had the fuel to divert so they diverted.

[Oakape]

CBR is not an international destination normally, so no customs. I would imagine that that is the case in the US, as well as every other country in the world. However, customs are available for charters, etc if arranged in advance. As for diversions, my understanding is that customs are available on a call out basis. Don't know how long it takes to get them there, but I would imagine that it would be a while. It would probably cost a bit for an aircraft that size as well. I know it would seem a little strange that a nation's capitol does not have an international airport, but that is the way Australia has developed. There is plenty of information available on how the capitol ended up at Canberra, rather than Sydney (or even Melbourne), so if you are wondering, look it up.

As for the runway, witwiw has a good point. Only one of the three runways would have been closed. Admittedly, 07/25 would not have been available except in an emergency, due to the north/south runways being in use. However, 16L has 2200m for landing & 34R has 2400m for landing, so a B777 could land on 16L/34R with no problems, particularly a -200.

It was their choice to divert to CBR & they should have known about the limitations of the airport (read your manuals!). So don't carry on about the supposed shortfalls of CBR airport, because a captain chose not to land his 777 on a perfectly acceptable 2200m runway.

[4 Holer]

Missing the point. WHY IS THERE NO CUSTOMES AT THE NATIONAL CAPITAL ???
You knock the "yanks" even Victorville CA USA where the Qantas fleet is parked in the desert is an International airport.
AUS airports, freeways, ATC, ATTITUDE and infrastructure is simply 3rd world with a white face...............

[neilki]

I can assure you the USA would have dealt with this in a much more efficient manner. We're no longer the Passportless insular hicks you seem to think we are Sir. And anyway, why didn't they they just fly over the boarder to Switzerland, surely they have customs there?:D

[rjtjrt]

And anyway, why didn't they they just fly over the boarder to Switzerland, surely they have customs there?
Love it!
As an Aussie, I am not at all surprised that Canberra wouldn't do better. Government here big on bureaucracy, not big on service.

[drunk_pilot]

AUS airports, freeways, ATC, ATTITUDE and infrastructure is simply 3rd world with a white face...............

Please feel free to make your way back to the greatest country on earth then, 4 Holer. Nobody's holding a gun to your head - unlike in the US of A...

[TBM-Legend]

and:
Next time you groan upon hearing the Captain say "we are going into a holding pattern before landing at Brisvegas", think about just how much traffic there is whizzing about around Heathrow etc.!!

UK 24 on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/m/110348926)

I only became aware of the existence of this Video yesterday and, somewhat ironically, this as per the Link below occurred yesterday!

Flight disruption across London and south east after air traffic control computer failure - Transport - News - London Evening Standard (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/chaos-at-heathrow-as-planes-left-stranded-on-runway-after-air-traffic-control-failure-9921408.html)

One B777 diversion and we make it a national catastrophe...

AUSTRALIA, GROW UP!

[Oakape]

One B777 diversion and we make it a national catastrophe...

No, the Americans & those Aussies who know nothing about the situation are making it a catastrophe.

Next time you groan upon hearing the Captain say "we are going into a holding pattern before landing at Brisvegas", think about just how much traffic there is whizzing about around Heathrow etc.!!

Have you ever operated into LHR? Entering the hold is standard. The STARs actually terminate with the hold & approach takes you out for the landing when they are ready.

Missing the point. WHY IS THERE NO CUSTOMES AT THE NATIONAL CAPITAL ???

No, you are missing the point. CBR does not have the international traffic to justify the cost of customs full time at the airport. The reasons for this are many, but city size, positioning & lack of commercial traffic are some. Do some research as I suggested & you may come to understand, rather than just mouthing off on here. Sure they could have full time customs there, just sitting around doing nothing at huge cost just in case an international aircraft turns up, but the taxpayer would not stand for it. The airport owner has been trying for a long time to attract international operators to go to CBR, but with little success to date. No US carrier wants to fly in there, so why should the Australian taxpayer foot the bill for the occasional one who decides to divert there?