Woodford original buildings?

[ZeBedie]

Can anyone tell me about the history of this hangar, please?

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/johnmac1_2_5/woodford003.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/johnmac1_2_5/media/woodford003.jpg.html)
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j228/johnmac1_2_5/woodford001.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/johnmac1_2_5/media/woodford001.jpg.html)

[barry lloyd]

Known by those of us who worked at Woodford as 'The Flying Club'. The hangars as you might imagine, are the original ones from the time when A V Roe moved into Woodford. The buildings on the right were eventually turned into accommodation and a small restaurant used for entertaining visitors.

I imagine they must be listed, but I am disappointed to see them in such poor condition. Given Woodford's current status as a development area, I suspect the developers can't wait for the buildings to fall down so that houses (or whatever) can be built on the site.

Not, perhaps, the answer you were looking for, and I'm sure someone will be along soon with a better answer, but I felt the need to respond.

[Cantiflas]

I was an apprentice with Avro/HSA from 1965.I can't throw any light on the history of these buildings but Barry reminds me that I saw in that building
a rather fine German glider which had been used for pilot training circa WW 11.
Also was the Slingsby T21 used by the works gliding club stored therein?
I'll never forget its creaking wings and seeing the Dinky Toy-sized cars over Stockport.

[UK019]

I went from landing at Woodford in British Aerospace's Jetstream shuttle in 1990 (as a passenger) to watching the place close down. Holes in the buildings, grass creeping over tarmac everywhere, and the runway's only users are boy racers in up-market cars. :ugh: It only lacks tumbleweed.

With its history the whole place should be listed - which, of course, is about as likely as meeting the re-incarnated Elvis in the Budgens opposite the main gate. Damn shame. Excuse the slight thread-drift.

[ANW]

The historic AVRO hangar (http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.G11.12.html) which was originally located at Alexandra Park aerodrome, Manchester was subsequently moved to Avro's 'new' airfield at Woodford. In later years it was used by the Avro Gliding Club. It is earmarked to be moved off site. It is a bit like Trigger's Broom, with sections replaced over the years. The building shown alongside was also used by the Avro Flying Club.

BAE closed the aerodrome on 25 August 2011 (http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.G3.html)

A planning application for Redrow houses has finally been approved by the local Council, though some last minute niggles by local residents await a government response for a potential call-in.

Below historical notes extracted from Peter Maher's book entitled 'Three Score Years & Ten' an illustrated history of The Lancashire Aero Club, founded 1922.

In October 1917 The Manchester City Council were advised that The War Department proposed to build an airfield beside the railway line between Chorlton-cum-Hardy and Heaton Mersey stretching across what is now Hough End play fields. The nearest railway station was Alexandra Park and the airfield was given the same name.

A number of hangars were erected and the field was big enough to receive the largest aircraft of the day. Both service and manufacturer's test flying was taking place including that of the famous A.V.Roe & Co. Ltd. (otherwise known as AVRO which later became part of British Aerospace). However, the Air Ministry's lease for the aerodrome was only to last for a short term and flying ceased at the end of August 1924.

With the closure of Alexandra Park, A.V.Roe & Co. Ltd were forced to seek, quite literally, fresh fields and pastures - and they were not alone. For some time the aerodrome had been the home of a small glider owned by the Lancashire Aero Club which had stemmed from the efforts of a man (John Leeming (http://www.edendale.co.uk/ANW/WFD.801.28.12.html)) who was to leave a considerable mark on a number of aspects of Manchester's civil aviation history.

[ZeBedie]

Thanks for that. Without any doubt at all, they're worth saving.

[mustbeaboeing]

Can anyone please provide an update on the fate of these buildings?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I don't know for sure but I suspect they will be demolished. The Avro Heritage Centre will occupy the former fire station on the south side (currently being rebuilt for that purpose) with the statically-refurbished Vulcan XM603 positioned nearby.

The rest of the site is zoned for housing as far as I know, and owned by Redrow.

[David1954]

I stumbled across this thread and this forum quite by chance.

I had the privilege of being a member of what I recall being known as the AVRO Woodford Gliding Club between 1974 and 1977. At that time the hanger housed the club's fleet of gliders: a T21, a Swallow, a Ka 7 and a Skylark 3b. The Skylark spent most of the year in its trailer down at Shobdon, but even so it was all a bit of a squeeze. The club's retrieve/tow vehicle (a SHORT wheelbase landrover) was also garaged in the hangar. The building to the right was the clubhouse, which was also used in winter as the place in which the annual fettles were performed. At one point there was a "vintage" German glider (complete with "dolly" undercarriage) in the hanger as well, but that belonged to one of the instructors, and I cannot be certain as to what it was - obviously there is no trace of it in my log book - but I think it might have been a Minimoa.

I had absolutely no idea that the fabric of the buildings had such a historic background.

I read of the demise of Woodford airfield some while ago and I was saddened about it at the time. As time passes and Google (bless them) bring ever more obscure bits of history to my attention, I continue to be amazed by the role that Woodford has played in the history of UK aviation. It was, for example, the base from which an Avro 525 set out on a unique out and return to the top of Helvellyn in 1926.

[Sir George Cayley]

an Avro 525 set out on a unique out and return to the top of Helvellyn in 1926.

A 90 year anniversary which should be commemorated. Was it an LAC a/c?

SGC

[Jonty]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread.
I noticed today that the original AV Roe hangers have disappeared from Woodford.
Anyone know what's happened to them? If they are going to be saved?

[Centaurus]

In late 1966 I was part of a RAAF detachment of four pilots and two navigators sent to Woodford to undergo type rating conversions and ferry two VIP versions of the HS 748 back to Canberra, Australia. We were asked did we want the short course or the long course. We were unsure of the difference but opted for the long course as it meant a longer holiday in England and extra allowances.

The ground course was a bit of a let-down. The electrics lecturer was a real bolshie left winger and we got little of value on HS 748 electrics but earfuls of the wonderful power of the unions. The Performance lecturer rabbitted on about V1 and all that and lacked any skills as a lecturer. He made us draw up our own performance charts and when we could not understand precisely what he wanted he got very snarly and said he would keep us in class until we got the questions right.

Our Squadron Leader who was OiC the detachment, told him to go and get stuffed and we marched out of the room to the local pub leaving the pompous young git frothing at the mouth.
Due to supply problems what was supposed to be a six week course extended to five months, much to our delight.

Initially the six of us were invited to dine with the test pilots (Bill Else, Tony Blackman, Eric Franklin and Jimmy Harrison the chief pilot) in a lovely old cottage type building on the aerodrome used as a Mess. That was a privilege given to crews picking up various aircraft from Woodford but only meant for a couple of days.

Instead we were there for many weeks and we hoped the friendship wasn't stretched too much but the food and the company of distinguished test pilots made our stay at Woodford a very happy one. When I heard via Pprune years later that Woodford was closed down I felt so sad.:sad:

[oxenos]

The Performance lecturer rabbitted on about V1 and all that and lacked any skills as a lecturer. ---when we could not understand precisely what he wanted he got very snarly
Met someone who exactly fitted that description in 1980, when I joined the airlines.No names, etc, but I wonder if it could have been the same one.

[Herod]

Centaurus. Fine old names there. Bill Else and Eric Franklin were with Air Anglia later. In fact Bill did a lot of my F27 RHS training, and signed me off in the LHS soon after. In fact I believe that at one time Air Anglia had more ex-test pilots flying for them than all the other airlines in Britain combined.

[Centaurus]

Centaurus. Fine old names there. Bill Else and Eric Franklin were with Air Anglia later.

Bill Else had a slightly wonky eye. He told me he was test flying a Hawker Typhoon and the engine failed shortly after takeoff.
He belly landed in a field and hit his head on the gun-sight. One of his eyes literally popped out from its socket with the impact. There was no fire so after he escaped from the Typhoon, he waited on the wing for help to arrive while doing his best to hold his eye against it's socket. One of the rescuers was a nurse who asked if he was alright. He removed his hand and said look - my eye has popped out. She fainted on the spot.

Jimmy Harrison told me of the time he flew blind into a huge CB while demonstrating the prototype Avro 748 in India. The aircraft did not have weather radar. As the aircraft was thrown about in severe turbulence inside the cloud, Jimmy said he kept on repeating to himself "This aircraft is designed as Fail-Safe." He said the aircraft was spat from the side of the CB at 23,000 ft. On his eventual arrival back to Woodford, Jimmy Harrison told the designers that in future, all HS 748's must have weather radar.
Eric Franklin was a superb instructor on the 748. I flew with him on several occasions in the RAAF 748's as part of our conversion to type. Later I discovered he was a decorated former RAF wartime pilot.

During my time at Woodford 1966-1967 RAF Andovers were ferried there for maintenance. Walking past a hangar I was aware of an appalling stench emanating from an Andover. Turned out the Elsan toilet had not be cleaned out for many days as the maintenance people refused to clean it and the RAF ferry crew had long since departed to home base. It became an impasse that wasn't resolved for some time. Meanwhile maintenance staff still worked on the aircraft holding their noses. Beats me why something wasn't done about that appalling state of affairs.

Tony Blackman was one of the test pilots at Woodford. Nice bloke and very knowledgeable albeit a trifle impatient. When the first RAAF pilots did their first dual flight in G-ARAY after completing their ground course, the captain was in the left seat waiting for advice from Tony how to start the Dart engines as he had never flown a turbo-prop before.

"Come on, hurry up and start the engines" said Tony who was in the right hand seat. RAAF pilot: "I haven't got a clue - we weren't taught that on the ground course." I was in the jump seat as observer. Fortunately I had flown Viscounts and they had Dart engines so was able to help the left seater a bit while Tony fumed.

[ANW]

The AVRO shed was dismantled end February/early March 2017. It had been sold over a year previously, only recently removed off-site. It is to be preserved by the new owner.

Peter Maher's complete LAC book referenced in Post No.5 above is viewable here (http://www.edendale.co.uk/download/index.html)
The Helvellyn Mountain flight story is on page 2.

Centaurus - reference to dining in "a lovely old cottage type building on the aerodrome used as a Mess."
I assume you will be referring to the Avro and Lancashire Aero Club original clubhouse. In later years it was exclusively the preserve of Avro/HSA/BAe top management, who did not feel it was necessary to mix with the masses in the works' restaurants. Apart from the usual Royalty, VIPs and the like occasionally passing through, it also hosted a noteworthy 748 purchaser, Mr Howard Hughes, as this video shows (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUi8-V28Vcc).

[ANW]

Woodford Garden Village (https://www.redrow.co.uk/developments/woodford-garden-village-022166)

As an aside to the historical importance of Woodford Aerodrome, its manufacturing capabilities and personalities, readers may wish to have a look at the current housing development's progress in the area once occupied by the factory at the north end of the site at the main gate entrance.

[Krystal n chips]

Woodford Garden Village (https://www.redrow.co.uk/developments/woodford-garden-village-022166)

As an aside to the historical importance of Woodford Aerodrome, its manufacturing capabilities and personalities, readers may wish to have a look at the current housing development's progress in the area once occupied by the factory at the north end of the site at the main gate entrance.

Thanks for the link containing as it does pure developer / estate agent speak.

Quite how the word innovative gets included is a bit of a mystery, a housing estate is, well, a housing estate.

But possibly all was clarified in the link to their site and those immortal words "exclusive enclave "...thus ensuring the populations of Wilmslow / Alderley Edge, even Prestbury at a push, aren't going to have a potential influx of rabble or social housing residents.

Be interesting to see how the marketing dept, given the heritage being so shamelessly promoted, justifiably I should add, manages to include the A.T.P. however.....:uhoh:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

At least one of the house types will be at home on the former aerodrome; https://www.redrow.co.uk/houses/woodford-garden-village-022166/blenheim

[DaveReidUK]

At least one of the house types will be at home on the former aerodrome; https://www.redrow.co.uk/houses/woodford-garden-village-022166/blenheim

Not to mention the Oxford and Sandringham designs on the estate, clearly also named after famous aircraft. :O

[Allan Lupton]

Not to mention the Oxford and Sandringham designs on the estate, clearly also named after famous aircraft. :O
Too much to hope that the developer might have used Avro names isn't it?
At least the Hatfield aerodrome development has roads named after de Havilland types - never been interested enough to find out what the house designs are called.

[STATSMAN]

Too much to hope that the developer might have used Avro names isn't it?
At least the Hatfield aerodrome development has roads named after de Havilland types - never been interested enough to find out what the house designs are called.

Yes road names will have Avro connection, not in the U.K. so cannot check the names.

[ANW]

The style design names of course go back many years, and features on other Redrow new build housing projects throughout the UK, past and present.

As to road names, the following are in use at Woodford : Lancastrian Way, Avro Crescent, Nimrod Grove.
No doubt more will feature over what is expected to be a 10 year construction programme.

[G-ARZG]

If there's a cul-de-sac, perhaps they'll call it 'MRA4'

[VX275]

I wonder if there'll be a Alliot Vernon Row?

[spekesoftly]

At least the Hatfield aerodrome development has roads named after de Havilland types .......

And other roads named after de Havilland Test Pilots and Designers - Cunningham Avenue, Derry Leys, Barlow Close, Fillingham Way, Tamblin Way etc.

[Planemike]

I wonder if there'll be a Alliot Vernon Row?


It would actually be Alliot Verdon Roe.

[VX275]

It would actually be Alliot Verdon Roe.



Yes but you don't get a Roe of houses

[Planemike]

Yes but you don't get a Roe of houses

OK....point taken !!! You could, of course, have Alliot Verdon Roe Row !!!.

[VX275]

I had originally thought of Shackleton's Row as a suggestion, but I didn't want to be cruel to the Apostrophe Police.
Incidentally I've always wondered if AVROs named the Anson after the Admiral or the Anson coal mine in nearby Poynton

[Wander00]

Quick story - waiting for Royan ferry across the Gironde about 8 years ago. British reg car pulls up behind me and get chatting with driver. He asks where I am going and I tell him RAFA meeting in Bordeaux. Asks me if I have ever flown in an Avro aircraft. Confess only time was as 13 year old CCF cadet in an Anson. "Why do you ask?". "Just my Grandfather was A V Roe" says the other chap. Big silence!

[CloudHound]

Ah, Nimrod Grove. There's a name to conjure with.

I have a plan to move in stealthily one night and change it to Nimrod Grave. Tee Hee!

[safetypee]

Automobile Turning Point, a bit of a dead end, or
The pub near the cricket ground, ‘Seven for Eight’, (could also be One for Six)

[Allan Lupton]

Automobile Turning Point, a bit of a dead end, or
The pub near the cricket ground, ‘Seven for Eight’, (could also be One for Six)
As a colleague put it, "I thought one for six was an exchange rate until I came to Hatfield"

[ANW]

For anyone interested, update on the subject of Woodford road names in use on Phase 1 development :-

main entrance Lancastrian Way.
Shackleton Road,
Chadwick Close,
Lincoln Close,
Avro Crescent,
Nimrod Grove, (under construction, probably leading to a dead end).

[CloudHound]

Don't tell anyone, but there's a plan to change the 'o' in Grove to an "a" tee hee!

[Alan123]

These historic hangars are shortly too be auctioned, got some spare cash? Dominic winters, may 18th, lot number 767, estimate 100-150thousand pounds

[CloudHound]

LAC/AVRO Hangars up for auction (https://www.invaluable.co.uk/auction-lot/*-the-historic-green-avro-hangar.-65E4655977)

Came late to this development. I've tried to contact the auctioneers as I'm concerned about such an historically important structure being sold. I've questioned the ownership and asked for the lot (767) to be removed from sale pending.

If, as I read above, Harrow Estates donated these to someone then the terms of that transaction could be key to whether the sale should proceed. The pieces are stored in a container at Bicester in an unknown condition.

[CloudHound]

Sold for £100,000

[PAUL1867]

I regret to advise you that the hangar in question appeared between 1932 and 1938 and has no historical significance other than somebody apparently paid £100K without doing any homework. The hangar did not come from Alexandra Park.
For a full detailed investigation, with supporting evidence, about this hangar please read the following forum thread at Key in Historic-aviation/148567 avro-hangars for sale