Dear SO

[Sam Ting Wong]

I hate to break it to you: you will never get full housing.

I know this might come as a shock, but still, you will never get it.

If you find this unfair, consider that I will never get A scale or a week-long layover in the Bahamas plus X millions of sterling in my pension fund like the generation before me.

You might also find it helpful to understand the concept of market forces in a free economy and finding out what kind of legal and social system is in force in HK might give you a hint in that respect.


Now, please do me two favors:

1) Don't listen to those ignorant B scalers who make you believe you deserve it/ think it is outrageously unfair /tell you it is not enough to raise a family/ etc. Just ignore this patronizing, unfounded mother of BS bla bla, forget it, don't believe it, just please, for the love of Jesus Christ ( or Buddha), IGNORE IT. Please.

2) Don't ever vote down a payrise again ( unless you enjoy making a complete fool out of yourself)

Thank you

[ACMS]

Ahh that's funny, 99% of the SO's are mighty pissed off all by themselves and don't need other people B or A scale telling them how to feel.

Idiot, get off the third floor and do something positive for a change will ya:ok:

[Yonosoy Marinero]

What an asinine rant.

Regardless of whether they ever get it, why should they not fight for it?

Not to mention the fact that when non-housing pilots happen to become a majority in CX, question of when not if, who will be defending your side when your dear employer comes after your housing with a chainsaw and a sadistic grin?

A-scalers are or will all soon be no better off than B-scalers, who in turn should look at C-scalers like a wet finger in the wind of change.

Look after your own crew meal before spitting in that of others. We're all in the same team. Let me reassure you: management hates you as much as they hate every other pilot on the payroll.

[XFR8]

STW is trying to do them a favour. There is absolutely no point in hanging around here. Get the rating and leave.

[koi]

Good gracious me, your Managers have your best interests at heart. Just as those who, like me when I went down to help those poor Australian passengers stranded by those naughty pilots back in the 80,s. You chose to work in chinky china town, so make the most of it.Or move out.
kk

[Shep69]

XFR8, STW, et. al.

This is EXACTLY why many of us are devoting a lot of time and effort to the current dust-up. We don't want to see this happen to our airline. Many of us love what we do, are interested in the long term profitability of the place and working conditions, and don't want to see it trashed out by a few self-serving managers who place ego and power over people and profitability.

If we DO go down the path the short sighted folks seem to want, we will see exactly this--as folks gain experience and ratings we will lose them at exactly the time we most want and need them. Folks will use this as a training ground and bolt. No contract on the planet will be enforceable to keep them.

It's hard to fathom how those who are paid so much can act so stupidly. I might not like the fact that fuel and airplanes cost more now than they did in 1960, but that doesn't mean I will pout and hate fuel and airplanes and write volumes about how fuel and airplanes are screwing me. Skilled labour costs money just like any other resource. It ALSO has the somewhat unique quality that when it gets pi$$ed off it doesn't work as well.

[XFR8]

Shep69

I/we completely understand where you are coming from, unfortunately management prey on the pilots inbuilt professionalism and loyalty and abuse it. It's an all too familiar scenario round here and you won't change it. Take the DFO & GMA's recent correspondence with the union and the pilots as a whole, we are managed by morons who wouldn't last two minutes in a proper airline.

No, there is no future here, don't make any emotional investment in the place. Get a rating, move on.

[SMOC]

I wouldn't call it loyalty, it's called seniority and once those handcuffs take hold any lack of pay rise will never match the pay cut of going to the bottom of a new seniority list, so people will bitch and moan and stay right where they are just like the managers like it!

[Frogman1484]

Shep69,

When you mention OUR airline, you forget one thing...it is THEIR airline and you to them are just an annoyance that they have to have.

Do not for one minute think that you are part of THEIR airline...you are not!:mad:

[White None]

Notwithstanding all the undeniable current issues, personalities, problems etc etc etc, in what way is Cathay Pacific not a proper airline ??? Just confused by your definition.

[bridgeport]

Regardless of whether they ever get it, why should they not fight for it?

Save your fights for something you have a hope of getting.

[LS8C1]

I'm an SO. I know full expat housing will not happen.

The union needs to drop this line and think of a realistic alternative if conditions are going to improve for us.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Ignore it!! Please, just pretend you didn't read it. We need to practise that, I get it, it's not easy. The fatherly tone, the conspiracy theory, brotherhood- slang,it's all there. I get it!! But, hey, that's why you are a pilot, you can do it!!!!

PS IF you fail, if you just can't evade it anymore, let's say in the middle of the Pacific, you had your tenth bathroom break, BUT HE IS STILL TALKING, here is what you do:

Ask him how exactly a SO is supposed to fight.

NOT eating the sandwiches? Refusing to take first rest?

And if that STILL doesn't do the trick, ask how he personally is planning to fight ( it is very important you stress this "personal" thing, or he will tell you, again, about "other" people who have to "fight"). In general, he will try to always see his contract as baseline, A scaler being the odd exception above his terms, and you, obviously, outrageously inferior trying to destroy everything from below. Be vigilant!

Good luck!!!

[ACMS]

STW added to my ignore list.


:ok:

[Steve the Pirate]

@ACMS

I think it's wrong of you to add STW to your ignore list (no, I'm not him before you jump to any conclusions). Although you might not like, or agree with, what he's posted, he does make some valid points. Just because a truth is inconvenient doesn't mean that it should simply be ignored - how else can one make a balanced judgement?

STP - off to the ignore list of many I dare say!

[goathead]

I just added supercadet to my ignore list
" just saying "
Supercadet gen y proving the point, again ....
Supercadet were you one of the ones that didnt pass the interview and all that but got the job anyway ? Theres QUITE a few like you

[From a distance]

Supercadet has expressed his thought out opinion on where he sees Housing allowance and HKPA in a few years time if we fail to address this issue. Don't think that merits a personal attack and the threat to block.
Goathead your opinion of Cathay management must be a lot higher than mine if you think that they don't already have a plan to undermine expatriate housing in the future.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Everybody calm down!!! Now!!! Nobody is ignoring or selling out anybody, is that clear?? OR....

I will wear my RED LANYARD!!!!!!

You have been warned!!!

[AQIS Boigu]

How about the Gweilo 777 SO who keeps telling everyone that one day he will be the CEO of CX...hahahahaaaaa....

[BlunderBus]

As mentioned on another post....what do YOU suggest STW?
Let's just all accept those rostering changes..2%..unilateral changes to our contracts or work practices? You're obviously ok with that but I'm not..I've seen 26 years of this here and it has only ever gotten worse..it's an undulating ride in declining conditions of employment but would you rather slide down an up and down grassy slope on your ass or fall off a cliff? The difference has always been resistance..or lack of it.

[CowardlyPilot]

Don't worry Sam Ting Wong

I know we won't ever have housing......but when we are the majority, which should happen quite soon(2017 maybe).......neither will you :=

Thanks for flying Cathay Pacific

[flyhardmo]

but when we are the majority, which should happen quite soon(2017 maybe).......neither will you


And does that make you happy cowardly?

[744drv]

Cowardly Pilot,

Do tell us how that is going to work exactly? Who will then the the grown up on the aeroplane? Think you might find the airline collapsing around your ears in the scenario you depict ..... this might result in you being without HKPA too!

[Long Dong Silver]

Cowardly is simply pointing out what will happen to us expats if we keep
****ting on the HKPA guys and blaming them for everything.

We need to fight to get everyone on the best deal and stop thinking that because we have housing that we are special snowflakes

[iceman50]

L D S

Sorry but the HKPA guys that joined, non-local, sh*t on themselves by accepting the poor contract, even though they were given much advice on here about NOT doing so, but they new better and we now have to fight for them or else?

If you think the "expat" housing allowance was not, has not and is not in the companies "sights" then hello, smell the coffee.

[Sam Ting Wong]

I never sold anybody, I certainly don't sh.. on anybody, and if I could decide it I would give everybody the full housing package.

I just don't think it is realistic nor helpful to fight for something that will never happen.

I, Cowardly, never asked for anybody's condition to be reduced, nor would I ever do that.

[main_dog]

I never sold anybody, I certainly don't sh.. on anybody, and if I could decide it I would give everybody the full housing package.


Just out of curiosity, would you be in favour of freighter-only captains based in HKG being given full housing? Because there are a fair number of our guys who would be dead-set against that...

Don't mean to hijack the thread, I just mean we are so divided amongst ourselves that we are unable to see the wood for the trees.

[Sam Ting Wong]

I would never oppose an increase in pay or benefits for anybody (Bonus for DFO excluded).

Why would I?

But before you open the champagne:

I also think it is totally irrelevant, I highly doubt anybody will call me and ask about my opinion in that matter.

Guys, get a reality check! It is not about what we want, think is fair etc. It is ONLY about what we can ACHIEVE.

[CowardlyPilot]

Sam Ting Wong,

Just a reality check for yourself.

If you "B scalers" don't fight for us now, we won't fight for you later.

Don't want you to get your hopes up, but housing won't be around for much longer.......It is not about what we want, think is fair etc. It is ONLY about what we can ACHIEVE and i don't think that we can achieve housing for much longer.

Thanks for flying Cathay Pacific

[BillytheKid]

Cowardly Pilot-

Is that you Mr. Herbert? Go on then, back to the third floor. Leave this forum for pilots, not management trolls looking to piss take.

[CowardlyPilot]

It is true, conditions have steadily deteriorated since the glory days of A scalers for all.

The difference is, when things changed for the worse, aka b scalers, freigher onlys and c scalers, pilots were always scared to fight because of fear of losing their own conditions.....let's face it, everyone with housing would be screwed without it. They could stop your children's schooling. You wouldn't be able to afford your rent.

Now as c scalers, it wont really kill us if we don't get the measly 10k hkpa. Most of us don't have kids at the schooling age....yet....

We are ready to fight and if we lose our jobs we are young enough to go else where. Our careers will survive.

Bring on CC and I know C scalers are ready to fight for conditions.....Are YOU!!!

[Sam Ting Wong]

So, Coward, how exactly will you fight?? Not carrying the blue bag? Refusing to laugh about the captain's jokes?

But I have to admit it, from your point of perspective this whole thing makes sense: you have nothing to loose, and you won't even have to stand in the first row when things become ugly. Smart.

To the 93% rest: you fools have been framed. Dragged into a war for some juvenile apprentices who want to live in the mid-levels.

This is my last post ever, see you in Verdun.

[crwkunt roll]

you have nothing to loose
Ok now it's time to go away and take your A350 Lanyard with you! :ugh: