Dakota Bar boycott

[Cavitasian]

Frankfurt based crews are incensed at having to pay the Headland Hotel for storing their luggage and are sending a message to the Headland Hotel management by refusing to eat and drink in the hotel's outlets. Other based crews are being encouraged to follow suit.

[jumbobelle]

don't use the 22nd floor enough anyway. And Handis do a good takeaway

[poydras]

Yeap I am all for it.
That is disgaceful and petty. Also the concierge boys will lose qiute few HKD in tips. What a genius of peoples.

[Trafalgar]

I agree. Forthwith, a form of CC regarding the facilities in the hotel. NO more Dakotas, NO more restaurant. Suck it up for the next few months. The staff will be in revolt within a week or so. Let's show them that we mean business on all fronts. Boycott NOW.

[Shep69]

It's not the staff's or the hotel's fault--just petty chicanery as per the other thread.

A boycott is fine as folks see fit, but I would like to remind everyone the folks working there have nothing to do with this and many are our friends. Whatever happens please don't take it out on them (not that a boycott would be doing this but not being nice to them anymore would).

If you are someone who likes to be angry, please make sure to direct your anger toward those responsible and not toward people who have nothing to do with this junk. Don't take it out on clerks, waiters/bartenders, service employees, ground staff, coworkers or colleagues, loved ones, etc--none of them have changed or are responsible for this. Maybe even a courtesy hello to let them know of this would be appropriate--that things are getting nasty so please don't take anything personally--and that you are grateful for what THEY do and are sorry they need to endure this situation as well.

[Captain Dart]

Trouble is, the only other choice is the swill at the Maxim's controlled 'Galley' etc. This has links to the family of a very unpopular previous CEO, who hated his Western pilots to boot. They haven't had a cent from me since they kicked out all the independent stall holders. Oh well, I suppose there is sushi or dried noodles from Pay 'n' Weep.

Funny how they announced this on a Friday, in accordance with good industrial psy-ops practice. And what's changed? The hotel has been pretty full for years and only now storage of a small bag is a problem.

Also, the cabin crew reaction to this will be interesting.

[Trafalgar]

...hmmm... yup, let's leave this to the cabin crew to sort out. :ugh:

[ColonelAngus]

Unlike the pilots, cabin crew gets sh!t done...

[Captain Dart]

It might be all about the lockers (a shortage of which is mentioned in the NTC). There were rumours some time ago about taking lockers off the base crew as they had storage available in the Headland!!

After a suitable period of outrage and angry posts on PPRuNe, the company makes a 'concession' by pressuring the hotel to allow free baggage storage: but in exchange for base crew giving up their lockers.

Lion Rock is usually teeming with locals, management patronise Catalina's , and the only real alternative, and only during normal hours anyway, is crap from Maxim's (see my previous post), Park 'n' Shop, Tung Chung or a trip to the terminal.

Boycotting the 'Gay Bar' is a good start, it is mostly patronised by pilots anyway, and a boycott would be noticeable.

[Pucka]

Please don't take this all out on the staff..they earn a pittance and their tenure at CX city is entirely dependent on the trade we give them. A censorship of the hotel management would be a better way to go.

[Captain Dart]

OK, let's just announce CC on a Friday. Preferably THIS Friday at 1650 HKT.

[IDS]

Guys, a boycott has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with taking it out on Headland staff. Why would you? They are always friendly and polite. This is about taking away revenue, which will and should be noticed by the chieftains!

[sirhcttarp]

The company is removing their "Goodwill" a little at a time. They will keep withdrawing them 1 by 1. They'll keep announcing new measures that will annoy 1 group more than others but mask it as a problem from a 3rd party.

Next on their list is:
1. Vogue Laundry will now need to be collected within 7 days.
2. Reduce the bus size between airport and cx city.
3. Ground staff to have priority on buses.

[BlunderBus]

Hey here's a Novell Idea..since all the based crew save them about a million or more a year in housing costs EACH...why don't we suggest they actually PROVIDE more room for crew gear!! The original design at CX city where they had a clean slate in designing fell far short of crew facilities in all respects from day one...can't even get a cup of coffee!!
I think we should apply the same gusto to getting things as 'they' do in taking it away :ok:

[ACMS]

Yeah that's a good point, we save them around $92 million USD a year on housing allowance. ( 1,000 Pilots x average of 60,000 month )

Wow a big saving....


We sure a **** should get something back for that.....


This obviously doesn't take into account all the other savings we generate directly to the bottom line ( education 13th month etc )

Yep definitely a one way street

[sorvad]

Boycotting a bar that exists pretty much solely for us, and wearing a lanyard in order to piss off the company. Professional pilots?! Is this really what our forward thinking has come to. God help us if this is the public image we're projecting that's all I can say

[Captain Dart]

...so what's your great idea then?

[The FUB]

Its was only 20 months ago that at a Fleet forum we were informed that there was to be an extension to the Headland with upgraded facilities and building work was to commence immediately.

I guess that the building work would have rendered its use as a hotel for a long time and so was quietly shelved.

As in business the customer is always right. Right. Perhaps a couple of rooms on the 4th floor could be set aside for baggage storage.

CX is the customer and yet it is CX management who are putting out the announcement regarding the new proposed charge.

However, this is an opportunity for FLT & Cabin to unite and throw this idiotic idea out. Time to make your feelings known to the fleet offices. Time to check in extra bags on all flights, CX management have sown a wind on this one and they will reap a whirlwind.

[DropKnee]

Sorvad
I don't give a rats $&@ about what the public thinks of me.
No one gives you anything in life. You have to fight for everything you have. Sometimes that fight is dirty. They made the choice to be insulting and they made the choice to pick at us. I am just giving them what they want. If your not willing to fight for what's right. Then you might as well pack up and return to your kings land to toil the soil.
CX is as much my company as it is any mangers. Like them, I want more and certainly have earned it more so than them.

[Bob Hawke]

Sorvad has kindly asked us not to make any form of protest for which the company will respond with immediate reasonable and constructive dialogue with a view to rectify any perceived or actual deficiencies highlighted. Thus preventing any unnecessary burden being passed onto the PROFESSIONAL pilot group, as they, our managers, whom all are also consummate professionals; we know, can trust and respect.

Please everyone lay down your lanyards. CARE - ing is not just a four letter word.

[4 driver]

Curtain has it exactly.....it's all distraction. And there will be more. Significantly more serious maneuvers. Did you expect them to do nothing?
Keep focused people.

[wateroff]

Bugger me - the smog must be getting real bad of late - you blokes have lost the plot, reality check for cripes sake. If your not happy do something about, not buying beer is lame. Concrete is going cheap in Kowloon.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Shouldn't we vote on this first?

[DropKnee]

Vote for a :ugh:boycott? Your a big boy and can make your own decisions. If you want to enjoy a refreshment at Dakotas? Go right ahead, no hard feelings. I for one will not! I hope you can extend the same courtesy? :ugh:

[betpump5]

Time to make your feelings known to the fleet offices.

The FUB,

You have posted on the wrong thread mate. The thread you are looking for is " My favorite Cathay Jokes are".

Exactly what do you expect the puppets (muppets?) in the Fleet office to do? :ugh:

[The Management]

The Pilots could not organize a Pi$$up in a brewery let alone boycott of the local bar. The Local bar is self sustaining and doesn't really need the business of a group of alcoholic pilots to sustain itself.

The next incident involving pilots while intoxicated at the Local bar (or anywhere else on or off duty) will involve a certain person from the CMD. When she gets involved all will be put on "The Program" and will never be allowed to consume an alcoholic drink again while in the employ of "The CPG."

Whether it happens on your time off does not concern her, if you have any incident involving alcohol, you are considered to be an alcoholic and will be put on "The Program."

Any person in "The CPG" can accuse any pilot of being intoxicated on the job without jeopardy to themselves. Even if the pilot accused has "ZERO" blood alcohol, that pilot will have to enter "The Program" at the demand of that said CMD personal. Her word is final and unquestioned.

There is no legal recourse to the accuser under HK Law as the pilot is considered guilty until proven innocent. When proven innocent the pilot will still have to enter the program at the demand of CMD even if there is no evidence of alcohol abuse.

Any incident involving alcohol whether on or off duty will have consequences and the individuals involved will have to enter the program. Please be guided accordingly.

To My Bonus
The Management.

[Jim-J]

Some excellent planning there muppet management.

Every based crew memeber now brings (as Curtain said) a 70lb bag carrying all that is needed for a comfortable layover - coffee plunger, gym goods, boule kit (?) et al - and your 'Headland new profit scheme' is negated due higher fuel costs.

Also pisses off the pilot community even further. As if we weren't completely fed up already.

Clever lot.

[bridgeport]

And sadly we don't stick up for each other.
Just like the guy in NYC, put in the slammer as a result of accusations that were later recanted.
The false accuser goes on her merry way in the company, and the victim (being a pilot) is booted out the door so the company can save face.

And we all just looked the other way, and thought "thank god it wasn't me"

[Trafalgar]

For a start, we could all be members of the AOA and contribute to the general fund. Although it was a difficult and stressful experience, I remember many of us increasing our subs to cover a good deal of the 49'ers income for a considerable period after the event. I'm proud of that to this day. I'm not saying it solved the problem, but at least it demonstrated a real and substantial desire to help my colleagues. Everyone can at least do the minimum. As for the ISM in question with the JFK incident: I do not let her in the cockpit on her own. End of story. :ugh:

[The Management]

Like I said, couldn’t organize a Pi$$up in a brewery.

Why would you have to pay extra to support one member in the JFK case or the Alcoholic from Seoul? Unless you are paying too much money to too many General Secretaries at your HKAOA. Where is all the money going and what are you paying them? Maybe my Wife can be General Secretary and we will not have to get all our info third hand. It doesn’t matter, we already have a spy there and in all the onshore unions.

The HKAOA lacks the Will to pursue actions that will protect any member. The HKAOA Members itself don’t have the Will to pursue such actions AND NO ONE has the WILL to take on the Inflight Service Department or the FAU.

The Inflight Service Department at “The CPG” is the most powerful entity in the entire Corporation. Even our Upper Management are scared of the Cabin Crew. When they are unhappy it can affect our product and then our bottom line. No one has the Will to take on any member of the FAU and any member of the FAU can accuse any pilot of any wrong doing and still be protected by “The CPG” and the FAU whether the accusation is true or false.

Foreign Lawmaker don’t even pursue false statements made by FAU Members and the HKAOA will not pursue civil matters on behalf of any member. No one is out there to protect any Member except maybe IFALPA when you are thrown in jail for having an incident while using Commanders Discretion.

FOP management will do nothing to protect a member of their TEAM even though they are caring people and want you to FEEL like a TEAM.

As we all know with the Hong Kong Judicial System, one can perjure oneself and not have any repercussions.

The pilots don’t have the will to affect our bottom line as too many are self serving.

When the next injustice comes by the way of any HKAOA member and it will, we will see who has to Will to do anything. Most will not, just standby and watch the injustice be done and be glad it is not them.

Enjoy you Holiday Roster
To My Bonus
The Management

[Jn14:6]

Yeah, me too!

[raven11]

Management....you're right about the power the FAU and ISD hold over the CPG group.....

I noticed the huge banner at dispatch proclaiming the "new" ISM's BRIEFING ROOM. I couldn't help but chuckle to myself as I pondered where the "old" Captains briefing room might be....much, less a "new" Captains briefing room.

Based pilots have no space to place their luggage....but the ISMs get a personal briefing room. Pilots can't get a meager pay rise, but a new briefing room for the ISM's....that's a top priority.

How much fuel savings have the ISMs yielded for the CPG?

Upside down logic....Working for the CPG, sometimes I feel like Charlton Heston in the original "planet of the apes" movie, when he stumbled out of his spaceship and looked up to see a gorilla riding a horse.

[Baywatcher]

Plan stupid sounds like Capt Misty!

[bridgeport]

So what could we do to help that guy? Or the next guy? Or you, when you're next?

Unfortunately, nothing could be done to help that guy.

We live in a society where any man is automatically assumed guilty, on any accusation of sexual harassment.
And any false accuser is exempt from consequences, because this could be construed as blaming the victim, and is thus labelled as sexist and misogynist.

And the company has provided a textbook example of the above, in the way that it treated the individuals involved.

I hope I will never be in this situation, and I try to protect myself by conducting myself with any female colleagues in the most formal and business-like manner that I can.

[N1 Vibes]

This thread looks like a load of old-soaks suffering the DT's, love it!

[LongTimeInCX]

I'm not sure, my hands are shaking so much.
So squinting through the tremors, on my ver small screen iphone3, when I thought it said Dakotas, I thought it was going to be about twin radials.

How does that relate to baggage and a fruit-loop Japanese?

[Steve the Pirate]

Shouldn't we vote on this first?

DropKnee, I love irony, don't you? :E

Sam, I hate it when one has to explain jokes, don't you? :ok:

STP

[ShyTorque]

Strewth! As someone who has been flying for a living for thirty seven years (and never unemployed) reading this thread makes me so glad I never went down the airline route. Especially this one. :eek:

[Sam Ting Wong]

STP, I admit I was a little bit disapointed when my fine (and brilliant ) piece of sarcasm passed unnoticed. Just a tiny little bit.

[DropKnee]

STP
I am afraid that we will become the only group to CC for a pay cut. The lack of spine around here is jellyfish like:-)

[stevieboy330]

Prediction, Dakota's Noodle & Congee bar coming soon ! Free WiFi with every cup of ice tea !

[Sand Man]

Now that we have bent over and accepted that our baggage situation will not change (thanks to all with multiple bags) should we now consider boycotting the bar due to reduction of interesting TV channels.
I now can't watch multiple replays of Top Gear due to BBC Knowledge being replaced by BBC Earth (WTF?) and now Discovery has been replaced by TLC (double WTF?).

Is this a plot by the hotel to bore us senseless and get us into the bar? :hmm:

[ACMS]

1/ remove the stupid Korean channels for the 2 Koreans a year that stay
2/ put back Star Sports so I can watch the F1
3/ give us Star Cricket so I can watch ........yes Cricket
4/ supply TV remotes that don't take multiple attempts to change the bloody channel

No? Too hard?

Mmmm

[flyingbynight]

Fellas, there's the internet. Watch whatever you want whenever you want.

Flipping through television channels is so 20th century.

[Flying Clog]

Yup, agree with flyingbynight, the internet isn't just for porn.

The only time I ever turn the crap telly on in the hotel is to put that joke channel CNN or FOX on at nearly full blast to deter any thieving staff and/or cleaners when I'm OUT of the room.

Top tip btw.

:ok:

[BillytheKid]

Top Gear will be on Amazon soon anyway.

[myred]

Agree - its not the staffs fault! A quick check will give you some background:


In 2014 it was announced that BBC Worldwide would rollout a new channel, BBC Earth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Earth_(TV_channel)), which would replace BBC Knowledge in most locations, except for where it was successful.


Obviously its not successful! Maybe we should get the facts before declaring a boycott on something which can't be controlled! We all know HK tv is s**t anyway............

[Brown Nose]

Yeah that's a good point, we save them around $92 million USD a year on housing allowance. ( 1,000 Pilots x average of 60,000 month )

Wow a big saving....


We sure a **** should get something back for that.....


This obviously doesn't take into account all the other savings we generate directly to the bottom line ( education 13th month etc )

Yep definitely a one way street

No worries, take my housing allowance and i'll take your basing

[Sand Man]

What about Discovery being replaced by TLC. 24hr cooking shows in a hotel is pointless.

I guess the question has to be asked, who selects the hotel TV channels and can we have a say in it?

As for internet tv have you ever tried to watch it in the Headland, not exactly the best speed at times

[Trafalgar]

We need to organise an effective strategy to put pressure on the hotel to provide the services that we deserve. It's time to remind this company that we should be shown some respect for all the hours we have to spend in this dump, and away from our families. Suggestions as to strategy?

[Sand Man]

Make managers responsible for hotels stay in crew hotels as long as we do, not just one night being hosted by the hotel as I'm sure that is what happens when it comes to contract time

[Trafalgar]

...huh...? :hmm:

[Oasis]

You're a bunch of old women complaining about TV channels.
Leave the poor staff alone and go outside for a change, or fire up the laptop and iPad and watch tv on there or download some movies... Yes you can even do it legally, if you want.

I can't count the amount of time I've switched on the tv in a hotel on one hand last year, utter rubbish anyway and full of commercials, eating you time on this plane away.

[ACMS]

Some of us like to relax between trips ( yes that's what a hotel room is for ) and in doing so some TV helps.

Not all of us feel like Rambo and want to run up Lantau peak like a SAS soldier as a form of recovery....:D

[SloppyJoe]

Yeah that's a good point, we save them around $92 million USD a year on housing allowance. ( 1,000 Pilots x average of 60,000 month )

Wow a big saving....


We sure a **** should get something back for that.....

I always thought the benefit of going without housing allowance was so that you could live in your home country. Guess I was wrong.

[goathead]

i have question to anyone here moaning about lack of telly channels
If your on a base and here in HK fulfilling a training position, why don't you resign and get yourself a LIFE?

[BillytheKid]

SloppyJoe-

That would be an incorrect belief. Our "brothers" in AOAC don't seem to think the same based on their grievance.

[Jn14:6]

Goathead, you really need to change your first name to Richard!

[Thunderbird4]

Yeah, doesn't it just piss you off, Billy, when a bunch of pilots defend their contract. We should all just accept whatever the company says and allow them to make whatever changes they want to agreed upon documents.

[BillytheKid]

Thunderbird-

When defense of a contract comes at the expense of the majority of a pilot group for the benefit of a minority based on a legalise technicality in contradiction to past company practice, then yes it absolutley pisses me off.

[Inside UAE]

The camaraderie over there is mind-bogglingly timeless. I left in July '12 and the tone is seemingly no different today. Pity.

[Thunderbird4]

Billy boy, clearly you don't understand the grievance.

[BillytheKid]

Thunderbird-

I assure you that I do understand the grievance quite well after having had several conversations with several Canadian AOA GC members.

Until recently, the company had always allowed Canadians on US bases and vice versa. Paris was a game changer. In 2010, American pilots were denied YYZ due lack of the right to live and work and junior Canadian pilots were awarded the base out of seniority. Where was the objection from Canadians?

What I have observed from AOA Canada since its inception is the desire to do what suits Canadians regardless of its knock on affect on any others while hiding behind the fact (yes I admit it is a fact) that Canadian law dictates such actions. Certainly you can understand how that would be viewed by any outside Canada.

If the company is equally requiring all pilots to have the right to live and work to obtain a base, how is that a problem? I would point out that our labor contracts do not usurp law. NAFTA is subject to proper legal interpretation and due diligence by CX.

In my humble opinion, NAFTA does not authorize either country's CX pilots to operate as they have on bases because each country operates its own CX local branch. This is taken from the Canadian Goverment's webpage regarding the International Mobility Program: Authorization to work without a work permit – Business visitor.

Example: A U.S. based company provides marine maps and computer software to commercial and private mariners, including sports fishermen. The U.S. company has no subsidiaries or affiliates in Canada. The company wants to map the Lake of the Woods, most of which is in Canada, using sophisticated marine mapping devices. The end product will be marine maps and computer software that will assist mariners in navigating the Lake of the Woods. These products will be commercially available to anyone who wants to purchase them. In order to do this, the company needs to send two of their employees along with a boat load of this equipment to circumnavigate the Lake of the Woods, take depth and other readings, and return to the U.S. with their findings. Their findings will in turn be used to produce the marine maps and computer software. Since there is no Canadian employer contracting for their services, and since the U.S. company will be the direct beneficiary of the foreign worker’s efforts, business visitor criteria are satisfied.

International Mobility Program: Authorization to work without a work permit ? Business visitor (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/work/permit/business/index.asp)

[Thunderbird4]

Close Billy but not quite.

It's this simple: Cathay cannot change signed agreements without further negotiation.

[airplaneridesrfun]

... unless the contract violates the law.