VH Baron Interception Indonesia

[Cuban Eight]

Looks like our friendly neighbours got a bit of a fright by a wandering Baron.

Wonder what forms could have been overlooked or misplaced and by who.

Geez it'd be a fascinating image of two Sukhoi's tailing a Baron!

Indonesian air force intercepts Australian plane (http://www.smh.com.au/national/indonesian-air-force-intercepts-australian-plane-20141022-11a32p.html)

[av8trflying]

I wonder how much the "fine" will be?

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

[kimwestt]

Tricky Dicky at it again!

[Draggertail]

kimwestt, do tell. Has he done this before?

[Horatio Leafblower]

Dunno about Mr Melream Pty Ltd but I am very very surprised to see Jacko's name involved - as I am sure everyone who knows him will be.

I have flown with Jacko over the Indian ocean and the Pacific and on a ferry job he is the picture of calm.

Hope all goes well for them both. :uhoh:

[Skywagon1915]

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/10/22/1227098/945841-indonesian-sukhoi-fighter-jets.jpg


They are just trying out the new Fighters ... it will be a hand shake, so sorry and have a nice flight !

[TWT]

Oz aircraft forced to land in Manado for trespassing | The Jakarta Post (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/10/22/oz-aircraft-forced-land-manado-trespassing.html)

[Xray Tango]

Anyone that knows the owner of the aircraft won't be happy about paying any " fines "

[The Banjo]

With a new President elected there last week vowing to play hard ball with Australian naval incursions, I am sure they will get more than a slap on the wrist.

[TWT]

Indonesian jets ?force Australian plane to land? (http://www.news.com.au/national/indonesian-jets-force-australian-plane-to-land/story-fncynjr2-1227098858304)

[Just N Cider]

Appears to be VH-RLS

[training wheels]

I've flown turbo-prop RPT a number of times from Kupang to Sulawesi and below FL200, you'd be well out of any civilian radar coverage.

If they flew a direct route from Kupang to Manado, at below 10,000 ft, they would have been well clear of civilian secondary surveillance radar all the way until about 70 miles from Manado.

I'm actually surprised Indonesian radar picked them up at all, considering they let a B777 fly through without detection a few months ago.

[Desert Flower]

Ohhh Richard - you naughty man! Still love ya though!

DF.

[Come in spinner]

Leafblower

Surprised to see Jacko involved..YES
Happy absolutely, well almost because there was no mention of jail time.
Obviously you and I have seen different sides

[Desert Flower]

So have they been given the go ahead to continue - or are they still being detained?

DF.

[DynaBolt]

Is that the same Jacko from P$l air?

[TWT]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/australian-pilots-to-be-freed-by-indonesia-after-paying-fine-securing-approvals-for-flight-20141023-11avk7.html

'Beechworth' aircraft :hmm:

[Avgas172]

Shame they aren't as diligent with the 'asylum seekers' arriving every day :cool:

[av8trflying]

"Fine" $5700 - cash only

All is forgiven, typical over there

[mrbigbird]

From the Sydney Morning Herald today

"Indonesian fighter jet pilots had "locked on" their weapon systems to an Australian light plane on Wednesday before its pilots decided to comply with the order to land, one of the air force pilots has said.

Indonesian pilot Major Wanda Suriansyah was quoted in news portal Tempo.co as saying the two Sukhoi fighters had engaged their weapons systems and taken aim at the Australians.

"If there had been a command to shoot, I would immediately have shot it down, but thank God the pilot was apparently scared and decided to land the plane in Manado," Major Wanda said.

Advertisement

The dramatic mid-air chase on Wednesday morning came after radars detected a light plane, flown by Australians Richard Wayne Maclean and Graeme Paul Jacklin, in Indonesian air space without papers or clearance to be there.

They were delivering the plane to its new owner in the Philippines.

Major Wanda said the Sukhoi fighters had scrambled from Makassar in south Sulawesi, before escorting the Australian plane for four hours as it flew over Kupang and Ambon.

He said the first request to land was made as the Beechworth aircraft was over Ambon.

"But some Australians are stubborn so they ignored the request," he said.

Eventually the plane was forced to land in the Sam Ratulangi airport in Manado. The air force base commander, Hesly Paath, also alleged that the Australians originally ignored orders to stop...."

This is how it is meant to work.

Military radar is meant to pick up un-identified unauthorised aircraft and scramble aircraft to intercept, and identify.

Military radar is designed to pick up aircraft flying dark without transponders. That's the whole point.

Why didn't the military radar of Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore, India, the USA at D Garcia and Australia not pick up, not react, not intercept a massive target the size of MH370 but they did with a light aircraft.

It beggars belief.

One or perhaps all of these countries must have seen it. They just aren't about to tell us. The question is why?

[Jabawocky]

When searching your bag if they find more USD$7350…..guess what the fine is. :}

[etudiant]

Perhaps because a Beechcraft is a slower and lower flying target, one often associated with drug smuggling, unlike a large jet cruising by at 35000 ft.

[BEACH KING]

Beechworth' aircraft


Yeah, built like a Kenworth truck. That why most are still flying

[tdracer]

The fine sounds worse when give the fine in Indonesian Rp - isn't that about 60 million Rp?

[TWT]

It's cost them a whole lot more than the fine by having 2 Sukhois in the air for a few hours.

[hillbillybob]

the SU time can be written off to the training budget, hell given the milage they got out of it it could probably go to the recruitment budget

[TBM-Legend]

Why would they think they could fly through Indonesian airspace without a diplomatic clearance? Dumb and dumber!:rolleyes:

[ChrisJ800]

The Barron possibly had its transponder on as was a delivery flight, the 777 did not.

[Lookleft]

Probably watching too much Airplane Repo on Discovery channel.

[nojwod]

Writing from a position of total ignorance here, but is it possible that similar flights in the past were monitored but no action taken, as the security risk to Indonesia must be miniscule, but since MH370 the Indo military is now on heightened alert?

[red_dirt]

Thumbs up TBM!!!

[Arnold E]

Why would they think they could fly through Indonesian airspace without a diplomatic clearance? Dumb and dumber!

Are you absolutely certain they did not have all the paperwork required???

[Desert Flower]

Well they have paid their fine of $A5670 & departed for Cebu.

DF.

[hamster3null]

I would speculate that it's a combination of factors:

* Morning rather than middle of the night - possibly higher alert level due to the fact that it's not necessary to drag any high ranking officials out of their beds

* Very slow aircraft. Fighter jets caught up with it and the first order to land was issued when it was over 300 nm inside Indonesian airspace. At the cruise speed of Beechcraft Travel Air, that's something like 2 hours from appearance to intercept.

* Pepper and turpentine enemas which undoubtedly were administered liberally at all levels of command inside Indonesian Air Force when it turned out that they missed MH370.

[Xray Tango]

Arrived in Cebu yesterday afternoon all safe & good. A very happy RM.

[Dick Smith]

So what's the true story

Was it a paperwork misundersting?

Surly they did not plan to overfly another country without prior notice and approval

[Marauder]

Dick,

Surely you dont expect the Captain to dump a load of crap on our Indo mates if he had the required paperwork


As a regular In this part of the world, I am sure that he accepts these 'fines' as a normal means of doing business

[training wheels]

Probably a whole lot quicker to do what they did than to apply for an International flight clearance through Indonesian airspace through the normal channels. And probably would have cost about the same anyway .. lol

[Stanwell]

.
Just look at the beautiful photographs of the Sukhois.
Have a look at the lovely starched and pressed uniforms - et cetera.

I just can't help wondering....

[spinex]

If the Sukhoi pics are the ones that have been splashed in the media, they are actually courtesy RAAF, taken the last time the Indons came to play here - there is a Super Hornet nose visible in some of them.

[Jabawocky]

Surely they would not go to all that expense and cost just for a media stunt to prove a pointless point ? :}

[Mainframe]

under ICAO Article 5, a private, non commercial, non scheduled flight does not require a clearance for over flight or landing for a fuel stop.




FLIGHT OVER TERRITORY OF


CONTRACTING STATES


Article 5


Right of non-scheduled flight


Each contracting State agrees that all aircraft of the other


contracting States, being aircraft not engaged in scheduled international air


services shall have the right, subject to the observance of the terms of this


Convention, to make flights into or in transit non-stop across its territory


and to make stops for non-traffic purposes without the necessity of obtaining


prior permission, and subject to the right of the State flown over to require


landing. Each contracting State nevertheless reserves the right, for reasons


of safety of flight, to require aircraft desiring to proceed over regions which


are inaccessible or without adequate air navigation facilities to follow


prescribed routes, or to obtain special permission for such flights.


All that is required is a flight notification or flight plan.
How ever a lot of third world countries are not used to private flights and ignore ICAO Article 5, insisting on clearances.
PNG and SOLOMON ISLANDS are ICAO registered states that are very confused regarding ICAO obligations.
When planning into or over 3rd world countries a lot of grief can be avoided by obtaining a clearance prior to the intended flight, even though it is NOT REQIRED !

[Dick Smith]

Did they file an international flight plan?

If not. How were they going to be let into the Phillipines?

[ChrisJ800]

Im sure the Oz press will want to interview them when safely back in Oz. Be good to hear their side.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

Did they file an international flight plan?
If not. How were they going to be let into the Phillipines?


I'm jammed up there at the moment. Delivered in Aug, no handling specified in acukwik, Flight Plan notice as per Jepps, called tower before departure, no mention of any issues after we land and clear CIQ.

Go to collect same a/c this week, big drama because of no entry permit. Arrival location covering their ass big time saying we couldn't contact you after you departed previous location. Funny. Flight plan accepted, I have HF, no record in tower logs, no mention on arrival...:rolleyes:

Ps. 7 day notice req for entry/exit permit (not mentioned in Jepps). Get a handler.:ok:

[training wheels]

Another one has been intercepted apparently, this time a Beechcraft C90, VH-PFK. Interestingly, it's was being flown by Singaporean flight crew. :confused:

Another foreign plane intercepted by RI fighter jets | The Jakarta Post (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/10/29/another-foreign-plane-intercepted-ri-fighter-jets.html)

[Capt Chambo]

Indonesian fighter jets force private plane en route to Australia to land in West Timor - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-04/indonesian-fighter-jets-force-plane-to-land-in-kupang/5864212)

[vee1-rotate]

Sakhalinskie Aviatrassy (HZ) #103 ? 03-Nov-2014 ? WSSS / SIN - YPDN / DRW ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SHU103/history/20141103/0200Z/WSSS/YPDN)

[Hasselhof]

I'm fairly sure that the same aircraft made it to Brisbane this morning. Looks like they made it out. Hope it wasn't full of G20 delegates.... a multi-party diplomatic stoush in the making :E

[Caboclo]

Ok, what gives? Pilots thought Indonesia is such a dump they don't have radar and fighter jets? Can't even follow a magenta line? Or is Indonesia such a dump that they can't keep track of overflight permits?

[Desert Flower]

Apparently it was owned by a Saudi prince, so they were probably on their way to the Melbourne Cup! ;)

However this is the third aircraft that has been grounded in Indo - there was another one grounded the day before.

No Cookies | The Advertiser (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/world/indonesia-grounds-plane-en-route-from-saudi-arabia-to-darwin/story-fni6um3i-1227111899439)

DF.

[Marauder]

I'm with Mainframe on this.

The Indonesians are commitinning an act of piracy against an aircraft of a contracting state, who is entitled to free passage through its airspace.

To demand a fine or ransom and to use armed force is piracy, the culprits should be treated as such.

Tough talk by the New Presisident, but he is either with ICAO and the world order or he is not. ( and give up your Aust $$$$)

[ChrisJ800]

Love this quote: "They were required to pay the usual Rp 60 million ($5670) fine for their error, El Tari airport air force spokesman Captain Sigit told the Indonesian news website"

Dont think that would pay the interceptors fuel bill so not much of a business model!

[thorn bird]

Owned by a Saudi prince?

Oh dear,

guess a few Indonesians will have a whole wealth of grief at next years Haj.

Course this could be payback for the Saudi's lopping Indonesian housemaids heads off.

[TWT]

Wait till they try and force down Putin's IL-96 on its way to the G20 :E

Or another random Head of State heading Brissy way.

Got my popcorn all ready for that.

[Allan L]

Last para in this article in the Aust. edition of the Guardian makes it clear that you need THREE different clearances to fly in Indonesian airspace, according to Brigadier General Tjahjanto.


"...flight clearance from the transportation ministry, diplomatic clearance from the foreign ministry and security clearance from the air force."


Saudi prince's jet intercepted in Indonesia is allowed to leave | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/04/indonesian-fighters-intercept-private-jet-bound-for-australia)

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

And even if you have all three, if your handler fcuks up and doesn't advise them (even though he has sent you an email confirmation and has known about it for a week), they will initially allege you didn't have clearance, then prosecute you as the pilot for not notifying customs or immigration.:mad::ugh:

New Indonesian president is already asserting his authority ref. The RAN entering Indonesian waters to turn back Indonesian boats with Indonesian crews smuggling welfare seeekers. Aircraft being stopped is nothing more than cannon shots across the governments bows.:cool:

And the press has it wrong again. Its $5-50M RP, not $60M.

[Desert Flower]

New Indonesian president is already asserting his authority ref. The RAN entering Indonesian waters to turn back Indonesian boats with Indonesian crews smuggling welfare seeekers. Aircraft being stopped is nothing more than cannon shots across the governments bows.

It will all come back to bite him on the bum if he's not careful.

DF.

[Mainframe]

Marauder,


ICAO Article 5 clearly describes the right of a private, non scheduled, non revenue flight to overfly the airspace of an ICAO contracting by an aircraft of an ICAO contracting state.


A flight plan needs to be lodged, or notification given to the airspace owner.


I say again that most 3rd world countries do not understand ICAO Article 5, even if you sit down with them and go through it word for word with them as I have.


Given that status, as previously posted, even though it is NOT REQUIRED, lodging a request for overflight clearance is the only thing they understand and it fits in with their comfort zone and lack of knowledge.

[spinex]

Time honoured method of willy waggling in the third world and I'd hazard a guess that it is less about impressing us, than proving to his electorate that he's a hard man, willing and able to stick it to the rest of the world. They'll probably get bored with it soon enough, but TWT's thought of them trying it with Uncle Vlad on his way to Brissie would be worth it for entertainment value alone.

[Andy_RR]

...lodging a request for overflight clearance is the only thing they understand and it fits in with their comfort zone and lack of knowledge.

How about instead of filing a request, send them prior notice of ones intention to exercise the terms of the ICAO contract that the Indonesian government has freely entered into?

[dhavillandpilot]

Having read these posts, I find it amazing so many "armchair Pilots" that have a knowledge of International flying.


Dick Smith is strictly correct, BUT you are over flying their country and after some 30 years of International flying and Operations the safest bet is always go for the approvals.


For Indonesia, you just ring Dude up in Bali and he arranges everything for around $US200 plus expenses. And then he also arranges all the extras at local costs so in the end you save money.


Even if you are just transiting you are better off getting the approval for a landing overnight. You never can be certain around that part of the world with weather, volcanic activity or getting into a tech stop only to find the aircraft go "technical"