Dubai ATC

[Flyingphoenix]

Hi Guys

Recently applied for a posting over there and wanted to know what the current conditions are? Heard some rumors that you are quite short in numbers and that you are actually "forced" into doing extra duties. Is this true at all? Have there been any recent review or promised possible review in conditions? Thanks all

[Timpsi]

Don't you have to be an UAE citizen to be able to apply? That's the answer I got last time I tried to apply anyways.

[TheFalcon]

Truth is my friend - people come here thinking its a holiday in the sun. It's not trust me so think again.

[DESDI OR BUST]

Dubai Atc
Truth is my friend - people come here thinking its a holiday in the sun. It's not trust me so think again.

....unless you're a FAA retiree....then you're on top of the world! :p

[TheFalcon]

I guess if you like to be treated like an ass, paid as one and still happy cos u got a sack of carrots in the barn then you are one happy ass. Good for you but still an ass.:ugh:

[GlobalLover]

Having seen the job advertisment, is there any info on terms and conditions. Just out of interest really.

[Satellite Man]

Is it that bad right now?

I have heard you guys are understaffed and that some terms of the contracts were altered upon arrival to the UAE... is that true?

[TheFalcon]

Satellite man one thing you need to know about contracts here in this part of the world; basically they are not worth the paper they are written on. They can be changed or altered as one pleases but be assured they will never be altered in your favor. And yes under-staffing is an understatement at the moment though it was "cleverly" planned!

[mhk77]

Sounds like an interesting meeting with the Serco ME CEO yesterday.

Looks like even though we're expected to go full steam ahead with modernisation and to embrace new technology, management attitudes and techniques remain firmly entrenched in the dark old days.

ho-hum

[TheFalcon]

Sounds like an interesting meeting with the Serco ME CEO yesterdayIndeed Mhk77, basically he told the guys at the meeting to suck it up and leave if they don't like it and that they are lucky to have what they have. He hasn't quite realised as yet that he's got a time-bomb in his hands. And he had the nerve to say that Serco takes care of its own employees.:ugh:

[throw a dyce]

Serco takes care of it's employees??
Tell that to the Erbil guys +one gal who were paid off!!
They will dispose of you quicker than toilet paper if it suits them.

[Btrbill]

Dyce, they did at least offer some of us other jobs within the company though at lower paid contracts. And at least one is back in Iraq with them...

Overall, I think Serco treated us fairly for the most part. Some of the "calls" they said would be made on our behalf didn't seem to bear much fruit though... If ya know what I mean...

[Btrbill]

Falcon, until that APC is changed to a subjective vs objective evaluation, many qualified, willing, and very trainable candidates are falling by the wayside.... Even ones that are told they could check out, but didn't hit this magical 80%...

[TheFalcon]

I don't understand what you mean by subjective - I have seen the APC and it's a very basic test which if you fail means you will definitely struggle to make it here. I also believe there must be a some sort of line of standard from which to determine if someone is capable enough but like other tests nothing is 100% perfect. We have people from quiet stations who made it here and doing quite well and others from busier ones who struggle.

Having said that in this sinking ship called Dubai ATC I'm sure your wishes will become reality and they will lower the bar to let anyone in once they realize they cannot get the people they need to continue operations and that is sooner than you think possible. So guys anyone of you who wants to come here-get your bags ready, panic button to be pressed soon.

[Btrbill]

Good Evening Falcon...

What I mean is this... in order to pass the APC you have to achieve the required spacing 80% of the time. As you know it is 8-12 at Muvla and 15-19 at Riket for the departures. If you are not within those distances 80% of the time, you fail, period, end of story. It matters not what you do on Arrival or Director, or by how far you miss the 80%. Nor does it matter if they think you can actually do the job.

My case in point... I worked at DFW approach and IAH approach. (One of your recent hires was a crewmate of mine at DFW). I did not achieve the 80% on departures. However, on Arrival, I was told that I ran that problem the best it could possibly be done. He told me I had almost all 4's, and a couple of 3's on the scoring sheet. He told me he had no doubt he could put me in training in the IFR room and I would be certified in minimum time. The Director problem was much the same, though they didn't like my use of non-standard headings... ok... whatever... Hadn't vectored in 6 months at the time...

But the reason I was not offered a job was simply because I did not meet the 80% on the spacing for departures. I never had too little... only too much a few times.

So that is what I meant. I know the customer is not real happy with the results of the APC... and in August I was told they were looking into it. Great, but too late me. I now have a job down the road from you guys and am just as happy as I can be! I do wish you guys the best, but until that APC is changed, my comments stand as they are.

Talk to you on the line!

[KVOK]

Hi guys,

Sorry to intrude in with this message.

I have recently been contacted by Serco for an APC in Dubai early next year. I was wondering because of your previous posts if you're working there in Dubai tma or working for Serco, and if so, would you be so nice as to shedding some light about what is like to work there?


I would appreciate any additional comments on what the APC consists of, thanks a lot in any case!

Kvok

[TheFalcon]

Hi KVOK,

As you rightly noticed things are really bad here and Serco doesn't care. Having said that I know that nothing anyone writes here will convince anyone not to come.

So my suggestion is: do come and see for yourself and make sure you talk to the guys and see what the bickering is all about. If you think you are sadistic enough to be able to stay make sure that at least you have a decent escape plan.

As for the APC don't worry too much about it. It's pretty straightforward vectoring.

Best of luck

[atcsstudent]

Hi TheFalcon,

What do you mean when you say things are bad? Work conditions, salary? Because I have applied and would like to know a bit more if you could be more specific.
Thanks!!!!

[KVOK]

Hello Thefalcon,

Thanks for your words and advice. I've heard and read contradictory information about Serco and Dubai. Why do you think Serco dubai is a sinking boat, could you be more specific? Im rather the opposite of a saddistic and I always weigh well the pros and cons before taking any life changing decision, but I'd like to understand why you are so pessimistic about what apparently seems to be an amazing opportunity in an international fast growing TMA.

[TheFalcon]

KVOK, I have been here quite a while and I can tell you that things have never been this bad. Let me list you a few things:

1) The "international fast growing TMA" which you mention is an absolute shambles. You go to work each day and pray God almighty if he is around watching this forsaken place that you don't f*%k up because the procedures are so bad that you are alone and the last resort to prevent a serious cock up. I will not mention the frikkin morons flying into this place.

2) The shortage of people means you go to a nightshift (or any shift for that matter) with minimum breaks. You go home after each shift (some shifts your are lucky and you get decent breaks) completely drained and stressed out. If you think I'm exaggerating come see the sick leave days taken.

3) Since 2008 we have doubled the amount of traffic and the salaries have stayed the same (OK a measly 1% increase each year). You will still make a decent living but compared to salaries back home it's not worth the hassle anymore.

4) The management is there to make sure that the contract runs and the promises to increase capacity are delivered at all costs. The rest (including staff welfare) is immaterial and has been aptly demonstrated to us by the Serco Middle east CEO.

There is more of course which is why I am seriously telling you to have an escape plan. A lot(big majority) of people want to leave here right now and cannot because of children, lack of opportunities back home etc. SERCO is a sinking ship you just need to look at what is happening to its shares to get a general idea. Of course if you come from a third country where you are actually whipped to work then this might seem trivial.

Cheers!

[YeahYeah]

Serco share price:

One year ago at 446.5p; one month ago at 297.6p; Friday's close at 175.3p

It might fall a little faster if it had an anchor tied to it!

[Nimmer]

Hi Falcon, what you describe is exactly the same as when I left in 2006. The pay rise happened do to the no staff and no CV's on the table situation.

The same situation will occur again soon, and when the money is good and staffing levels increase the poor procedures( and they are very poor BTW) will be a distant memory.

What you describe is the life cycle of ATC in the Middle East.

Finally the salary and allowences are still very attractive to some in Europe, SA
, NZ and the US, so people will still come.

[KVOK]

TheFalcon I am working in old Europe, still very good conditions and good money. My main motivation would be to get myself out of my comfort zone and learn from the whole international experience. Are you working in APP?

I thought it would do no harm to attend to the APC and see what's the feeling's like. But your words are pretty harsh man...

Can anyone share the typical roster in Dubai app? Is it a 6 on - 4 off, 8 hour shifts? Is it 6 vacation rosters a year?

Thanks

[TheFalcon]

Nimmer - you are right, even I have have seen it improve after things were really bad but this time around there seems to be no will from anyone. I think there is either no money or no real motivation to keep the contract. The salary and allowances are not that attractive considering people are paying out of their pocket for increasing school fees and rents.

KVOK - Yes I do APP. Doing the APC is not that a bad idea you have nothing to lose. Actually we would like to have you here to help us get over this shortage of controllers and help prevent the coming leave ban next year. If you decide to accept make sure you take into consideration that here there are no pension funds so you will have to include it when making your sums.

One positive thing about this place is that you work with controllers all over the world and that is probably quite unique. The morale is low as it can be though and no signs of improving soon.

[10 DME ARC]

As for T&C new starts are on a DANS contract and are not allowed to discuss it with SERCO people!! :rolleyes:

[Somewhere In Time]

Serco are still recruiting for Dxb twr. Or are they just handling the recruitement process on behalf of DANS?

[KVOK]

Thanks TheFalcon, I get your point and appreciate your words of warning. However I have the feeling that morale is quite low in in the majority of units these days... Low morale and pessimism are in the agenda where I work as well.

Can I ask how many holidays a year? Do you have to work overtime? In that case I guess it's optional, right?

Thanks!

[n1312]

Hey guys i got an invitation to attend an apc in june 2015. For dubai tower atc. Can anyone here please tell me what to expect for an apc? Also is this job contract based? For how long and what is the salary like? I have so many questions because i am excited. Thanks!

[n1312]

Hey guys i got invited for apc dubai tower this june. Can anyone tell me what to expect? Thanks!

[X Pat]

n1312

Don't bring warm clothes :)

Let me be honest DXB is not for everyone but it is also not just doom and gloom either, its a safe place and great if you like traveling, loads of great destinations to go see. Live style is what you make of it !

The controllers here are a mix bag from all over the world and mostly a sociable bunch.

We are loosing some staff at the moment but mostly on radar. Guys going back after sabbaticals to Denmark, NZ and some applying to go to AUS (also short of controllers.)

In the tower things are good.. staff wise but guys and girls on radar are struggling.

Good luck with the APC:ok:

[Timpsi]

Do ATC in DXB recruit any ATC students or just qualified controllers? If they do, or will do, do you know if it will only available to apply for UAE-nationals or EU citizens as well?

[CEP]

Timpsi

Experienced controllers only. Only students allowed are the Nationals.
As an expat you have to have at least 5 years in APP, busy environment experience, and I think it's 3 years (could be 5) for TWR.
APP handles about 1600 movements per day, TWR about 1200.

[n1312]

@X Pat

Thank u! Ive already emailed them the documents they requested waiting for the final details now. Are u a controller in DXB?