Virgin America turns diverted after attempted door opening

[JohnnyRocket]

Virgin America passenger 'tried to OPEN DOOR' forcing emergency landing | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2765954/FAA-Airplane-makes-emergency-landing-Omaha.html)

Everyone always talks about the pounds of air pressure meaning it would be impossible to open the door - but what if the nutcase managed to push the metal handle to the open position? Wouldn't that loosen the bolts and enable the door to open?

Isn't the anything electrical that he could have done that might have triggered the opening?

[HighSpeedAluminum]

JohnnyRocket I'm guessing you aren't a rocket scientist?

[India Four Two]

JR,

I would like to put in a plug for this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug_door


HSA,
Nice one! :ok:

[tdracer]

JohnnyRocket, at even a 2 psi delta, the force holding even a small overwing exit closed is a couple thousand pounds (and cruise delta P is much higher than that - 6 to 8 psi delta being typical).
So unless you know some nutcases that can pick up a car, I wouldn't worry too much.

[JohnnyRocket]

So why are people so bothered then - if you can't open it? He's fighting a losing battle.

[roninmission]

Years ago on a Wardair flight one of the cabin crew asked my help (I was nearest) when a very, very drunk Pax was trying to open the rear door. We were on approach to Gatwick. I got a dislocated shoulder and ultimately had to kick the guy hard enough to disable him. Afterwards she explained she had to ask a passenger as the only other males were the the flight crew and she "Couldn't risk getting them hurt" Took me a moment or two to see the sense of that!


As a non-pilot I've often wondered if there was any way he could have opened the door

[Airbubba]

JohnnyRocket, at even a 2 psi delta, the force holding even a small overwing exit closed is a couple thousand pounds (and cruise delta P is much higher than that - 6 to 8 psi delta being typical).
So unless you know some nutcases that can pick up a car, I wouldn't worry too much.

Have you guys actually flight tested that theory? I've seen the open cockpit window video but can the door be cracked in flight? I realize the open cockpit window demo is that it can be easily closed at low airspeeds and altitudes.

You'll remember the 757 L1 door was expensively reengineered to be easier to open after a female gate agent had difficulty on a demo flight at CYUL with the media and Colonel Borman present on one of the first Eastern planes.

Even with zillions of pounds of pressure, mechanical advantage may be enough to crack the seal and it gets easier from there on I would think.

I can pick up a car with the mechanical advantage of a jack.

I've had Rapid D from a door seal icing up on a bizjet, once part of the seal was breached the airflow seemed to peel more of it away it seemed. And yes, this was supposedly a plug style door.

[tdracer]

So why are people so bothered then
Do you really want to spend the next couple hours on an airplane with some nutcase that's trying to kill you? Just because he can't get the door open doesn't mean he won't come up with something with a greater chance of success :eek:

[tdracer]

Airbubba
The forces are lowest on the overwing type exits (smaller area), but you're still talking a couple tons, and there is no mechanical advantage like that big lever on the main doors. So it's pickup up a car (the whole thing, not one corner) without a jack. Main doors have that big lever that provides a mechanical advantage, but the doors are over 15 sq ft. (many much larger) - at a six psi delta that's over 6.5 tons (ever jacked up a 6 ton motorhome?, I have - broke a 2 ton jack in the process because I had to use such along cheater bar), and again, we're not talking one corner, we're talking the whole motorhome :eek:. Oh, and if the idiot does manage to crack the door seal, it's going to cause a massive noise and commotion, with crap flying every which way long before the delta P drops enough to make it 'easier' to open.


In short, it's only possible in Hollywood. :rolleyes:

[SMOC]

Years ago we tried to open a door from the outside with less than 0.1psi (post maintenance pressurisation test, guys in the cockpit said it showed 0) and couldn't, the handles simply don't apply any useful opening force they simply guide and hold the door in place while unpressurised. Rivets in the door operating mechanism will shear in the 747 at least, making the handle useless. Also it's door movement that sets the emergency system into action not the handle.

As said Hollywood has a lot to answer for.

[HighSpeedAluminum]

Have you guys actually flight tested that theory?
Airbubba, I've been on board a B757 while maintenance performed a ground pressurization controller test. I sat in the flight deck with what I believe was ~.3 psi and with both hands could not crank the handle to open the window. With a plug type door it would not be possible to open a door with any delta P in the cabin.

[Skyjob]

Have you guys actually flight tested that theory?

In order to open a door/window in flight of this type requires a depressurised aircraft.
Some checklists may require crew to open them inflight, smoke removal being one on some aircraft types. In ALL those cases this requires depressurising the aircraft first.

[cavortingcheetah]

Saudia Flight 163. 19/08/80 refers to the consequences of remaining pressurized and subsequent lack of door operation after touch down.

[BOAC]

Maybe we need some sort of built-in chute system, like a Sonobuoy launcher, fitted on new aircraft so those who wish to get off in mid-flight can be 'assisted'?

[Skyjob]

BOAC great idea!

Maybe to be incorporated with the smoke alarm in the toilet so when activated the perpetrator gets jettisoned taking away any burning cigarette!

[TeachMe]

With an option for 787 batteries? :p Jet blast he we come ....

[Edmund Spencer]

Seems like my last post was moderated!
Here is the reference to the Philippine Airlines HiJack:
Philippine Airlines Flight 812 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Airlines_Flight_812)
It would appear the door can be opened in flight once the aircraft is depresurized.

[BOAC]

"It would appear the door can be opened in flight once the aircraft is depresurized."- indeed, otherwise no one would get out on arrival on stand! HOWEVER, since doors are normally hinged at the front you are trying to open it against a 500mph wind!