Out of the book questions

[737OPR]

Hi gents

Preparing for my captains exam. This is an exam that tests your ability to apply the books to the real world of flying. The rules and regulations are usually very black and white and don't cover the gray areas of real day to day ops so there are no clear cut answers!

Say you arrive at the runway for TO and get an out of limit crosswind report from the tower, however, you can see that the windsock clearly is hanging down, not jiving with the rower report, what do you do?

You prepare for departure and just before you are ready to go(still at the gate), you receive a completely different runway than the one specified in your OFP which takes a lot longer to taxi and a longer SID than specified in your OFP(basically you now have less fuel than required, just a little bit but still below legal, it's LHR and it's going to take forever to get additional gas)you have a SLOT to make.
What do you do?

You are holding because dest WX is below mins, just as you decide to divert to your alt with the min reuired fuel you get an above mins report from the tower.
What do you do?

Airport opens at 6 and departure is at six but ground staff wants to board at 5.45, no CFR yet

These are not uncommon situations you might face, I have a pretty good idea what I would do but am just interested in some different views.

Btw if any of you have some other interesting scenarios I would be more than interested.

Thanks

[Kennytheking]

737OPR,

Going through the process myself at the moment. A couple of general points I have learned......

As you said, grey areas. Put these questions to a room full of pilots and you may well end up with fisticuffs. No right or wrong answers. Point is, as a captain, you must collect information(some of your questions are short on info, deliberately so, I suspect). Use your resources eg co-pilot, manuals, etc. Make a judgement call. Sometimes you will be wrong. Tough luck. Have confidence in your ability to make a decision. Move on, make a better call next time.

As to your specific problems :-

1. At my company, we are required to use tower wind and nowhere does it authorize the use of pilot assessment(thumb suck) for x-wind limits. Bottom line is I'm going nowhere until the tower tells me what I want to hear. Call them and troubleshoot the problem until you understand why they are telling you a different story to the windsock;

2. That is what contingency fuel is for. Once the fuel truck unplugs, you start using your contingency fuel. Its not a legal issue any longer;

3. Ask yourself " when on finals, what if the ILS goes off the air.....can I go-around and still divert?" I will not sacrifice my alternate unless I am assured of landing and then we are not talking about absolute minimums anymore.

4. Not sure I understand the problem.....surely if you want to depart at 6, you should start boarding well before?

Hope it helps.

[Skyjob]

Say you arrive at the runway for TO and get an out of limit crosswind report from the tower, however, you can see that the windsock clearly is hanging down, not jiving with the rower report, what do you do?
Wait and question the tower for another wind reading to ensure you're within limits. Ultimately if you decide to not accept tower winds for what they are and something goes wrong, the tower winds will be in the report as factual, you've then broken limitations set by your company and could be in for gross negligence with all that is to follow.
Remember the tower winds may not always be measured where the windsock is located...

You prepare for departure and just before you are ready to go(still at the gate), you receive a completely different runway than the one specified in your OFP which takes a lot longer to taxi and a longer SID than specified in your OFP(basically you now have less fuel than required, just a little bit but still below legal, it's LHR and it's going to take forever to get additional gas)you have a SLOT to make. What do you do?
At the gate: top it up before leaving the gate. It is your responsibility NOT to depart with less than OFP fuel requirement.
Unless there is some Operational fuel (OPN) included into the OFP above and beyond all other required fuels (taxi, diversion, contingency, etc) which is sufficient to overcome the difference (e.g. OFP - OPN = Required Fuel legally for flight).

You are holding because dest WX is below mins, just as you decide to divert to your alt with the min required fuel you get an above mins report from the tower. What do you do?
You are legally allowed to make an approach, make one. It's better to land with diversion fuel + final reserves at destination then to divert and land with final reserves at alternate. If a balked landing should occur you could still use diversion fuel if committing to destination for another approach.

Airport opens at 6 and departure is at six but ground staff wants to board at 5.45, no CFR yet
Why and when does you operator require you to have CFR available?
For boarding?
For engine start?
For taxi?
For takeoff/departure?
Or possibly only for APU prior to engine start during/after boarding?

[glendalegoon]

1. the wind sock depicts wind at one point on the runway, not the whole two mile long runway. do ask, make a pilot report: wind observed north end of airport as calm. have annemometer checked. pick up cell phone call chief pilot!

2.you get more fuel and bye bye slot.


3. go to diversion airport. we had this happen at our airline in real life, pilot went back did the approach and slid off the end of the runway ruining his whole day. you made the decision, you made it at the last minute with no wiggle room...divert.

4.boarding early is one thing. starting engines early in this case might be wrong. So. wait. You could be smart and pick up your cell phone and call the CFR and ask if they happen to be there early!


on one transport type I flew, you needed a certain little spotlight to check if the gear was down in an emergency. you only needed the spotlight if it was night . spotlight out, we delayed departure (rightly) until it was daylight and off we went.


you follow the rules , especially if you are on the ground. in the air, you might have to use your best judgement, declare an emergency and do what the PIC has a right to do.

[737OPR]

Thanks guys 👍 three responses with 3 completely different answers!! Goes to show that when things are not completely covered by the rules, different views apply!

[SOPS]

Simple..you are the Captain...you decide. You need more fuel, but are going to miss your slot...who gives :mad: ...just do what makes it safe, and what you are happy with .

[Piltdown Man]

Are you doing a BOM exam by any chance?

1. You tell the tower their kit is u/s, plug in sensible numbers to the perf and depart. You are fortunate your employer's headquarters are in a more enlightened part of the world.

2. Legal or less than flight plan in front of you? Is your contingency correct, is taxi fuel correct, is the route correct, do you burn more or less than flight plan on this route?

3. If this was what you were expecting and there are no more delays, then I might be inclined to give it a go. After all, you are expected to fly on minimum fuel.

4. What level of fire cover do you need to board? Personally, I'd board. But I'll not be rolling along the runway until they are present.

Other scenarios.

When does your flight start? When can you commit to your destination? How much margin in time do you need for the crew's FTL and the plane's deferred items? What climb gradients do you need? What are your minima? A passenger has a heart attack on board before departure, what will you be thinking about before you depart?