Ryanair, more demand for pilots?

[PID]

I noticed how this forum is predominantly used to report accidents and incidents. So i thought I would add a positive threat (I hope it's under the right section).

Ryanair to announce a massive fleet expansion agreement with Boeing.

Boeing, Ryanair to make major fleet announcement on Monday | Reuters (http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/09/07/us-boeing-ryanair-hldgs-idINKBN0H20NB20140907)

It's obviously a long term fleet expansion but with a lot of Ryanair pilots (I know 3 of them alone!) who have gone to Emirates, Norwegian, Qatar etc. I'm sure Ryanair will be a bit desperate in the near future therefore looking into recruiting low hour Modular pilots and not just Integrated students?

I could be wrong, it's just my observation.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

The aircraft might be replacements and not for expansion. That's just as well because the expansion of Ryanair has done a lot of damage to flying as a career.

[Flux valve]

They have recruited low hour modular students for ages...

[Iver]

Ryanair considering the A350, B787 for transatlantic flights - ch-aviation.com (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/30850-ryanair-considering-the-a350-b787-for-transatlantic-flights)

[Skyjob]

Boeing Launches 737 MAX 200 with Ryanair

- European low-cost carrier commits to order 100 airplanes, becomes launch customer of newest 737 MAX family member

- 737 MAX 200 provides 11 additional seats of potential revenue, up to 20 percent lower fuel use

NEW YORK, Sept. 8, 2014 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) launched the newest member of the 737 MAX family today with a commitment from Ryanair for 100 airplanes. Europe's leading low-cost carrier will be the first airline to operate the 737 MAX 200, a variant based on the successful 737 MAX 8 that can accommodate up to 200 seats, increasing revenue potential and providing customers up to 20 percent better fuel efficiency per seat than today's most efficient single-aisle airplanes.

In addition to the commitment, valued at $11 billion at current list prices, Ryanair has options to purchase another 100 737 MAX 200s.

"Ryanair is proud and honored to become the lead operator of Boeing's 'gamechanger' 737 MAX 200, which will expand our fleet to 520 aircraft by 2024 and create another 3,000 new jobs for pilots, cabin crew and engineers in Europe, while allowing us to grow traffic from 82 million last year to over 150 million annually by 2024," said Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary.

"These new "gamechanger" aircraft will allow Ryanair to lower our costs and airfares, while improving our customer experience with more leg room and the Boeing Sky Interior, as we roll out new offers, particularly for our Business Plus and Family Extra customers. As many of Europe's flag carriers cut capacity on short haul routes, Ryanair looks forward to using these new Boeing 737 MAX 200s to grow at many more of Europe's primary airports," said O'Leary

Boeing developed the 737 MAX 200 in response to the needs of the fast growing low-cost sector, which is forecasted to account for 35 percent of single-aisle airline capacity by 2033. While the heart of the single-aisle market will remain at 160 seats, the 737 MAX 200 will provide carriers like Ryanair with up to 11 more seats of potential revenue and up to 5 percent lower operating costs than the 737 MAX 8, driving economic growth and increasing access to air travel.

With the addition of the 737 MAX 200, the 737 MAX family offers the right capacity to meet the needs across the single-aisle market.

"The 737 MAX 200 is the perfect fit for Ryanair, providing improved efficiencies, 20 percent lower emissions, increased revenues and a high level of passenger comfort," said Boeing Commercial Airplanes President and CEO Ray Conner. "The new variant will play a significant role in enabling the airline to continue to expand its operations, while providing passengers across Europe with outstanding value. For everyone at Boeing, it is an honor to launch the 737 MAX 200 with Ryanair, one of the world's most successful all-Boeing operators."

Based on the 737 MAX 8 airframe, the 737 MAX 200 can accommodate up to 200 seats by incorporating a mid-exit door increasing the exit limit. The airframe is 2.2 meters longer than the A320neo, giving customers more flexibility and space in the cabin, and offering a better solution at both the heart of the single-aisle market (160 seats) and at maximum passenger configurations.

Standard across the 737 MAX family, Ryanair's 737 MAX 200s will be configured with the passenger inspired Boeing Sky Interior, featuring modern sculpted sidewalls and window reveals, LED lighting that enhances the sense of spaciousness and larger pivoting overhead stowage bins.

With 2,239 orders from 46 customers worldwide, the 737 MAX family offers customers superior fuel efficiency, economics and passenger comfort in the single-aisle market.

Headquartered in Ireland's capital city, Ryanair operates more than 1,600 flights daily from 69 bases connecting 186 destinations in 30 countries. Currently operating more than 300 Next-Generation 737-800s, Ryanair took delivery of its first 737 in 1994, and now operates the largest fleet of Boeing airplanes in Europe. With a team of more than 9,500 highly skilled professionals, the airline is expected to fly more than 86 million passengers this year.

[lear999wa]

Scumbags....

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Unfortunately what Ryanair pilots have failed to realise (or at least failed to act on and use to their collective advantage) is the real power they wield.

This is the reason MOL hates pilots - he knows that in order to transport passengers from A to B you need an aeroplane and crew.

Although it might be very difficult to employ a CEO with the talents of Mr O'L, it is impossible to transport passengers without pilots.

The very operation depends on it.

Yet rather than use this overwhelming power, pilots kowtow to to MOL and take whatever rules and constraints he cares to dish out.

He might be a hard man, but trying to fly aeroplanes without pilots is even harder.

I imagine his fears will be realised because sooner or later people will walk and an (seemingly) unlimited supply of cadets isn't going to solve the potential nightmare that lies ahead - no Captains because everyone else has them.

[OhNoCB]

It's opinion only, but I would think that given the amount of people I hear are leaving/rumoured to be leaving, combined with orders arriving soon, as well as that they are(were) advertising not only for DE CPT but DE FO but with and without type ratings that they are already pretty keen on trying to get staff at present, let alone the future.

[Skyjob]

Getting the staff trained and upgraded is one way of increasing pilot numbers.

Retaining them on the other hand is equally important in a growing operation.

Over the last few years when no deliveries were taken, people leaving could be replaced by cadets being trained up from scratch.
Now that the deliveries are coming and the second large order has been placed supplementing the existing NG order covering the forthcoming 5 years, people leaving in the same numbers as before poses a real threat to the operation in long term.
Retaining the people involves improving the offering to make people choose to stay, be it for favoured bases, contract details or other methods. Retention will become a driving force in future for this airline.
There will always be enough cadets willing to start a career on a jet. There are less of these cadets willing to take a command when alternatives exist which supersede the offer of 4 bars on their shoulder. Even less cadets who have 4 bars on their shoulder in locations less desirable who are willing to work with sub-standard contractual conditions compared to competition operators.
Time will tell...

[captjns]

Fair_Weather_Flyer states The aircraft might be replacements and not for expansion. That's just as well because the expansion of Ryanair has done a lot of damage to flying as a career.

50 old frames are being returned to leasing companies with a net gain of 50 to the fleet.

[LNIDA]

I would say that over 90% of the F/o's i fly with are ex Ryanair, i have yet to fly with any ex Ryanair pilot that thinks its a good place to be or good word about MOL, the only thing they praise is the 5/4 roster pattern which even in the absence of roster allows you to plan your life, many have over the past few weeks have been contacted by someone on behalf of Ryanair to conduct a leaving interview with a view to 'would you be interested in coming bak' Fekk off' is the near universal response.

If they want people to fly their aircraft the will need to start treating their pilots with a little more respect, they train them well, very well in my experience and that is recognised throughout by the airlines that are recruiting additional pilots.

[acepilotmurdock]

I went for a DEP interview with Ryanair a few weeks ago in Stanstead. I had heard the rumours about Ryan which we have all have, but thought I would go down and give them the benefit of the doubt.

All I can say.... Well what I really want to say I can't but I can stick to facts, unorganised, disjointed organisation that change the goal posts at any given chance.

To all be warned :ok:

[Less Hair]

And you have been at "Stanstead" for an interview?

[BALLSOUT]

I went for a DEP interview with Ryanair a few weeks ago in Stanstead.I've never heard of any pilot interviews at STN before? Do you really know what you are talking about?

[Three Lions]

I also fly with ex RYR flightcrew. And to suggest RYR are disorganised would seem, from what I am told, is grossly incorrect. The stories I hear are of a very organised company with a very high standard of training.

However it is difficult to argue against the comment about the damage to the career in general terms. There is no doubt terms and conditions would be much better for all, and the future more stable without RYR and their main competitor the Orange outfit tucked neatly in RYR' slipstream.

It is essential to research an opportunity with one of the Locos to the full. Certainly give extra attention to the potential for burn out over several years and the effect these airlines are having on the whole UK industry.

Working for the Locos does have its good points, but I guess the recent news about Monarch, and more specifically the potential change for the crews there could be a good starting point for an overall analysis of the industry and the relative strong points of a particular type of airline to the next ...

Just my two pennorth'

[acepilotmurdock]

Balls out........ Yes I do and yes it was at STN

[Black Knat]

I too was up at STN a few weeks ago for a DEC interview/assessment. Found the day was run as good as is possible for these kind of things. I work with/know quite a few ex/current Ryanair guys so have been able to do a lot of 'research'. Starting to wonder if the company is on the turn and could be a good place to work for over the next few years. Those of you in the industry long enough will remember the days when Easy were seen as :mad: and Ryanair as the place to be. I know of at least one guy who left Virgin to go to Ryanair in 'days gone by'.
One thing is clear is that they have to sort out their crewing issues but as has been mentioned, give the right bases/contracts and people will stay.

[Rocket Ron]

In my 17 years at STN I've never heard Ryanair described as being "the place to be". :E

[FRogge]

I think that the only way to consider RYR as the place to be is if you are based at home, on a old contract! Even if you have a unpopular base close to your home it could be a long and rocky road to ever get there and possible that you never get there because of complete lack of seniority system

[doniedarko]

Starting to wonder if the company is on the turn

Comments like that young man will have making large charity donations ,public apologies and a stern warning form the bench ......if taken out of context :hmm:
On a lighter note Black Knat I had the best giggle in ages at your optimism. There are more escapes been planned in Ryanair than there were at Stalag 17. Ask yourself the question why do Ryanair need DEC's ...why are they not promoting from within ? . Why do the need FO's ....I'll leave you to ponder those as myself and the boys get back to digging

[737 Jockey]

Black Knat... The only Virgin drivers to go to Ryanair, were those who were forced to take a years' sabbatical. As soon as they could return, they did! Even to swap back to RHS and take a pay cut. Nuff said... In my own humble opinion of course! :ugh:

[galwaypilot]

Can anyone hazard a guess to how many pilots have fled the nazi organisation in the last 12 months? Me being one of them!!

[Aluminium shuffler]

Many hundreds, Galway. As for the company being on the turn, I have yet to see any evidence of it at all. Many get called every week asking if we will work days off and standbys are rostered mainly when you run out of hours. Most people I have asked still want out, and the only things stemning the flow are the 5/4 pattern and the fact that a lot of the old hands are near their families. If they start relocating the old hands to shore up half crewed bases, the resignation rate will probably further increase.

[Piltdown Man]

I predict nothing will stop the growth of RYR until they run short of captains and or/trainers. There are still heaps of doe-eyed, naive wannabees who will chop up their grandmothers to get a job in the RHS. The terms offered to work for the heathens in the sandpit or the inscrutable in the Orient are still not enough to attract sufficient numbers to cause any damage. The European market, excluding the LoCo market is still pretty flat. So we can shout all want, there won't sufficient movement in the near future to cause sleepless nights for the almighty MOL. His biggest problem will be lack of passengers (and profitability), not a shortage of pilots.

[Aluminium shuffler]

Pilt, the majority have been hitting their legal maximums or near to them for months now, FOs this summer too, not just capts. They are very short of crew and are going to need a quiet winter schedule to spread the remaining hours over the whole of the winter. When you frequently get calls asking you to work a day off because there is not a single pilot on sby in STN, LTN, BHX and EMA combined, then you know the wheels are coming off...

[Piltdown Man]

I believe you - but it's not yet hurting enough. When the press start to run stories about cancelled flights or tired crews make public mistakes then things start unraveling. If MOL can make it through the next two months he can relax - but he appears to be saved every winter.

[SID PLATE]

Recent cadet FO sim assessments have now been deferred indefinitely with applicants being sent to a hold pool.
The recruitment effort is to concentrate on DECs.*

* Source : CAE

Sorry lads.....

[speed_alive_rotate]

I will believe it when I see it SID PLATE, the profit to be made on the cadets type rating is huge for Ryan, also there are huge amounts of assessments going on in Dublin for cadets at the moment.
Maybe a pool until the busy summer period is over. I cant imagine them wanting to pay experienced FOs and their wages in comparison to cheaper cadet wages. Just my honest opinion.

[Greenlights]

Good luck to those flying for them...

:yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Skyjob]

But of FO's do not want to upgrade they need DEC's to fill the left seats to keep the fleet flying. As the sim can only be used for one purpose in each session... cadets may have to wait until LHS is sorted out.

Some signs of improvements are visible, but some of these small steps not generally regarded by many as improvements but only by some. They also are not having the effect of the way forward the company would like to have seen.

Next options available in short term are DEC's. When that has been exploited the only way to show you mean better staffing levels and retention is to put the ££/€€ where the mouth is, to correct the imbalance created in the last decade by reduced pay in comparison to competition airlines who got for instance inflation correction (at least) top their salary earned. So simply improve these financial conditions to existing crews so they won't want to leave and retain them to train the next cadets.

[737 Jockey]

I doubt many Pilots leave Ryanair because of the money. Whichever contract you're on, it's not that bad. Sure, they are way behind the competition now, especially in terms of basic salary, but rest assured that it is down to things such as treating their workforce with contempt, and a lack of professional/human respect, that make most Pilots & Cabin Crew leave. There is no fair and transparent basing policy, and annual leave, or should I say, "days of unavailability" allocation is a joke. The much revered 5/4 fixed pattern is good, if you're in the right base. Otherwise you will soon find yourself shattered, commuting during your own days off, in great discomfort, around their network of 67 bases, in uniform (which you have paid for), being treated like a second class citizen, by some Nazi-style cabin chief. :mad:

Their arrogance and stupidity is breath-taking, and it has been a pleasure to watch them struggling to run their 2014 summer schedule, and even more heartening to hear how much they are spending each day on wet leasing. Sadly, their hard nosed, dictatorial, hatchet men at the top, will simply not change their ways, and that is the problem. :ugh:

All in my own humble opinion of course. :ok:

[Aluminium shuffler]

Money on the old contracts is OK - not great for the work rate, but not a cause of unrest. It is the culture that is the problem, exacerbated by exhaustion, even on the 5/4 pattern. Any company which makes such a big deal about their rosters being "NASA approved" and how they are fatigue proof is clearly aware of a problem and is shoving blame onto the pilots, just like the pilots are blamed for every other issue (medical emergency and return to dep arpt, crew blamed for overnighting because the ground crew went off shift - ACARS would have allowed co-ordination with OPS, but no, publicly blame the pilots for making a decision without being able to ascertain all the commercial information and write a threatening memo in the intranet about it). People are getting sick of the utter lack of investment in basic systems by the company and carrying the can when it so frequently goes wrong, and are sick of bullying and belligerent management.

[galwaypilot]

Guys this thread has gone off track. A buddy of mine left FR in Jan of this year. He's looking to go back from another 73 UK company. I suggested that even though FR's policy is a no return policy, but given FR's situation re pilots. I think they'll take him back! Thoughts?

[Skyjob]

He has presently a NO.
But one can only get a YES if asking.

[doniedarko]

I'd say they would love to have a couple of people return to the fold. It would let them crow over how good it was in RYR .

[captjns]

Balls out states: I've never heard of any pilot interviews at STN before. Perhaps FR MGT forgot to keep you in the loop on their schedule and locations..:hmm:

Two friends interviewed at EGSS three weeks ago.

[kungfu panda]

I was vey surprised considering what I understand the current situation at Ryanair to be but a friend of mine asked to come back to Ryanair, the answer was " we do not take people back'.

I don't know if it was just him but he was an experienced 737-800 captain.

[italian stallion]

Greetings all...
don't jump down my throat but...I have this urge to move to Europe/UK and fly Ryanair and follow my passion on off day and that is to cycle...yes..no??

[JeroenC]

Fly RYR? Buy a ticket! And yes, they transport bicycles as well😂

[Zyox]

I was vey surprised considering what I understand the current situation at Ryanair to be but a friend of mine asked to come back to Ryanair, the answer was " we do not take people back'.

I don't know if it was just him but he was an experienced 737-800 captain.

@kungfu panda From my understanding this very much used to be the case.
Tunes seem to have changed amid panic however they are asking a lot of people to come back. I even know of one gent who rang up asking! madness!

Having left within the last year I (and others) received a call from HR asking:
- where we went
- if are we happy (straight away asked about salary and then onto conditions)
- what do they need to change in ryanair to keep people

Her hilarious instant reply to what needed to change before I had a chance to speak was "is it the treatment by management?". Think she had been making a few calls that day by the sounds of it.

Queried this surprisingly nice (must be new I said. She told me she was) lady why they were ringing me asking this and she flat out admitted it was to find out why so many people were leaving and they need to fix it. Openly told her everything they needed to fix. 20min phone call.

Wouldn't give me a number for amount that have fled because she claimed she didn't know but that there was "a team assigned" to this investigation task working backwards through those that had left. However when I left there were 300 working their notice, averaging about 100 leaving per month, and from inside from a few mates I've heard 700 have left in the last rolling year. Unconfirmed of course but everything is there isn't it.

The only worrying thing about all of this is 700 "cadets" in 2014 and 850 in 2015 from what I've heard. And the people returning. I'm sorry but while 5/4 is great it's not worth it for what you put up with. And anyone who has left should know that. Look at the amount who have left and most people who aren't on one of the old good contracts are looking at any opportunity to get out.

Leopard. Spots. Etc.
Don't get absorbed by the hype. :=
Once they're over this temporary crewing hurdle it'll be back to the same old O'Leary fueled crap.

[Torque Tonight]

Ryanair always had pretty high turnover of pilots but the cadet sausage machine could always keep up with the attrition. Now with more alternative jobs for pilots elsewhere, and an increased demand in Ryanair with new deliveries the situation is beginning to look rather stretched. Evidence of crew shortage is everywhere and the key to fixing it is to make people choose to stay rather than leave.

There are some green shoots - little token gestures to try to keep people sweet but more is needed. I am an optimist and I hope that Ryanair might evolve into a desirable place to work. One thing is sure, that is with a fleet of 520 aircraft, unless FR make people want to stay long term, they'll have nobody left to fly their shiny new jets.

Ryanair modelled themselves on Southwest Airlines, except the bit about being nice to the workforce! Fingers crossed for the future.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

I am an optimist and I hope that Ryanair might evolve into a desirable place to work.

It'll have to otherwise MOL will kill his baby.

Ryanair will have to evolve or it will die - the 21st Century isn't the place for industrial dinosaurs such as MOL.

He should look at the business in one direction and at his staff in the other - you can't apply business tactics to HR - it'll never work these days in the Western World.

Ryanair have been lucky that the long recession has played in their favour.

But as mentioned previously there are (lots) of alternative jobs around - with Ryanair's competitors particularly.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Do you think they would ever allow second applicants to apply again? Cadet I am talking about.

No, no, no - think again and Aim Higher!

[Greenlights]

I am an optimist and I hope that Ryanair might evolve into a desirable place to work.

Mouahahahaha
:D

[SpannerInTheWerks]

That's true.

Good luck with whatever you do.

It's a difficult game, just never give up - and once trained and experienced you can always move on ...