C172 v King Air in Deni ?

[Jabawocky]

Anyone know about that :ouch:

C172 is bent wing, cabin of King Air??

[rgmgbg01]

I heard it was at Hay. STAA student solo vs B250.

Sounds expensive!

[Avgas172]

C172 would win the $$$ value damage bill anyday ....

[Howard Hughes]

Hangar rash?

[megle2]

Student taxied too close to KA at Hay and wings struck

[artistry]

the King air is still parked at Hay as of Nov 2014...

[Grogmonster]

The Kingair is back at BK now and will be flying again very shortly. Parts supply from the USA was the problem causing the delay I hear. I suspect the Insurance bill will be significant and I would hate to be on the receiving end of the sure to come legal attempt to recover the funds.

Groggy

[artistry]

It's not the student's fault... It's the king air pilot's fault.. Shouldn't have parked the aircraft on a small apron to begin with considering that there was another king air parked there that day... Also the pilot of the king air was stupid enough to park his aircraft near the Avgas refueling point at hay

[morno]

Ah right, of course. So where do you propose they park then artistry?

Maybe you should have sought some assistance, or got out and assessed the situation first, :ugh:.

There is one thing you will learn in this industry. If it's your f*ckup (which clearly it was, the King Air was parked, they're not the one's who ran into you), you admit it, learn from it, move on.

morno

[OZBUSDRIVER]

It always amazes me watching emus running alongside a dog fence...silly buggers think they can get through anything that their head fits through...

[Mail-man]

Artistry, may as well blame airservices for not listing parking availability in the ERSA. Stupidest post I've read this year, congrats

[artistry]

my question to morno and mail man, were you there at Hay airport when it happen? did you talk to the student and the king air pilot involved? were you part of the team investigating the incident? if not, i suggest you dont say anything...

[Aerozepplin]

I take it by that logic you are either the student, the king air pilot or are investigating? Since you blame the king air I suspect that's not your plane, and an investigator would hold their tounge. Therefore you're the student who hit a f***ing parked plane, so should shut the hell up. :mad:

[almostover]

The newer pilots of today...................."it's not my fault"...........no one takes responsibility for their own actions these days!:ugh:

AO

[morno]

So where do you fit in then Artistry?

I don't see how the pilot of the King Air is to blame when they were parked.

morno

[currawong]

So did the Kingair make the first move?

Or did you just nail it for looking at you funny....

[megle2]

I heard there is more to this story
The first student taxied in and whacked the hangar ( hangar at fault )
Then the next student came in and whacked the King Air ( King Air at fault )

[bankrunner]

I better remember Artistry's defence if I ever hit a 4WD with the wife's Corolla in the car park at Woolies.

It will obviously have been the 4WD driver's fault for parking there.

[LeadSled]

It will obviously have been the 4WD driver's fault for parking there.

If it was Saudi or Iran, that would be regarded as perfectly logical, just as the passenger in a taxi is responsible for any collisions.

Tootle pip!!

[currawong]

Perhaps this is the coming of the flouro vest generation.

:ugh:

[Toruk Macto]

Anyone know if the 172 had its nose wheel on a taxi line ? Was kingair parked in designated parking space ? Lawyers get involved and the outcome can go either way .

[rutan around]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this story turn out to be the King Air must have been pretty close to the Avgas bowser and to block off or balk other aircraft from refueling shows at the very least a lack of consideration. Bit like the pr*#ks that power up and blow dust and rocks through hangers.

[Draggertail]

No lines for taxi way or parking visible on google earth so only common sense to go by. I'm sure some OH&S guru will come up with a way to blame the council for this. It's not that hard to avoid another aircraft when you are in a 172!

[Toruk Macto]

lawyers will want to establish what is the common taxi usage for apron , what's the normal use of fueling equipment . If King air was refuelled it may be fueling company shares some blame , council will get their turn to defend themselves I'm sure . Common sense won't play much of a role . Interesting to see who pays up in the end .

[Capt Fathom]

You lot are joking surely! Lawyers?

At country airports, you just fit in where you can! The big boys will probably stick to the Tarmac where possible.

You may have to drag your 172 by hand up to the browser, so be it.

I've never found it a problem. Sometimes you may have to wait, but that's rare!

What happened to commonsense, patience and good manners?

[Toruk Macto]

Common sense of operating at a country airport is one thing , who pays up with this is something else .

[aldee]

It's a no brainer, the talentless fool who hit a parked aircraft is at fault, end of story
No excuses for inability to maneuver a172 on the ground
Like the fool who hit the hanger 18 inches in from the wingtip in a C182, cost the owner big coin, don't recall the hanger being at fault:sad:

[JAKL]

It was a student?
Was he solo?
Where was the Pilot in Command?
I take it the Supervising Instructor would be the Pilot in Command.

Cat-pigeons :)

[Car RAMROD]

Lines or no lines it doesn't matter. They should give you clearance but never blindly follow/trust them. If you hit a stationary aircraft (or some other object) it's YOU who is the dumbarse at fault.

In parking areas go slow, slower at night, ALWAYS keep looking both sides and if in even the slightest bit of doubt about clearances then stop, shut down, get out and look, or get someone out there to check for you. Pretty simple stuff really.

[Toruk Macto]

If there is a line and your nose wheel is on it then your a whole lot less liable .

[holdingagain]

There was no line as far as I know involved here

But if there was and the King Air was parked dead centre over the yellow line and you smack into it what percentage do you carry, nil or 100%

[Toruk Macto]

Have you noticed aeroplanes a crashing into each other or objects regularly all over the world , this person was a student in a 172 operating at a country airport . 380 pilots have done this , just happened again last week in the states with a major airline . BA in South Africa , Heathrow a few months back with Virgin or Ryan air ? Are airports getting busier ? Initially it seemed clear who was at fault with all of them but as time passes and lawyers get involved it's never clear cut as one person is solely to blame . To answer your question I imagine the blame will be apportioned somewhere between %0-100 on the pilot . There is already a few good points brought up here , a good aviation lawyer will find more .

[Neville Nobody]

You mean Toruk Macto , a good aviation lawyer will make a lot more.
When you get Bottom feeders involved everyone pays more.

[Obidiah]

I think it was John Deakin who once wrote,....

.....in aviation there are a lot of laws and regulation, too many really, when all you really need is two.....


...Don't hit nuthin' and don't do nuthin' dumb.


Seems like at least one of these was laws was violated.

[kaz3g]

You mean Toruk Macto , a good aviation lawyer will make a lot more.
When you get Bottom feeders involved everyone pays more.

And what wonderful, philanthropic pastime are you engaged in, Nobody?

It might be clever to bag lawyers amongst the company you keep but the ones who do so bleat loudest when they need one IMHO.

Kaz

[Neville Nobody]

So Kaz, you in the bottom feeding business then? What makes you think all the litigation makes for a better world?

[kaz3g]

So Kaz, you in the bottom feeding business then? What makes you think all the litigation makes for a better world?

No Nobody; I'm a lawyer.

I'll leave bottoms and feeding them to people like you who are clearly far better qualified than I can ever hope to be.

Litigation subjects the parties to the scrutiny of the laws made by the people we as a democratic society install in our Parliaments. If you don't like it then do something useful and change the system.

I work for the poor buggers who can't afford to pay for their legal representation themselves but would still like to receive some modicum of justice.

I repeat my question: What wonderful, pure and undoubtedly philanthropic works are you involved in that you sit in righteous judgment of others?

Kaz

[Neville Nobody]

I'm currently unemployed Kaz, one lawyer whom I have a very high regard for is a yank by the name of Dan Mori, he currently works in Melbourne. "In the company of cowards" is a book he has just released.
My question still stands how does litigation make for a better world? Was Australia a better place years ago before the drive to litigate?

[thorn bird]

As my grandpappy used to say.

"The law is for everyone. Justice is for them that can afford it"

And he was a judge.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

This sounds like a budding child of the magenta in training.....
.....I was following the yellow line and I hit another Aeroplane!!!!????

Where were your eyeballs at? Blindly following the yellow line?????!!!???

How stupid does this sound? How even more stupid to claim immunity?

[kaz3g]

I'm currently unemployed Kaz, one lawyer whom I have a very high regard for is a yank by the name of Dan Mori, he currently works in Melbourne. "In the company of cowards" is a book he has just released.
My question still stands how does litigation make for a better world? Was Australia a better place years ago before the drive to litigate?

Sorry about the personal circumstance...I've been there, too.

Putting aside the pre-supposition in your question, I'd say this.

Dan saw the abuses of human rights inflicted on Hicks and did his best to show them to the world during the trial. He has since successfully litigated against the U.S. military on at least two occasions to enforce his own rights: once when a motion to recuse was put on the basis of his marriage many years earlier to his then 17 yo wife; and again when his application for promotion to colonel was refused on blatantly political grounds.

Remember Rhonda McCabe? She took on Big Tobacco and sadly died before her case was finalised. But she changed the developed world view of ethics in both business and the law. The latter saw an incredible turn around in professional pro bono activity by law firm Clayton UTZ after their handling of the respondent's case came to light.

It's 7 years since Bernie Banton passed away from mesothelioma. But his determination to continue his litigation against James Hardie helped others who have been or will at some time in the future also be afflicted by this insidious disease.

I was living in St Andrews on 7 February 2009 and saw firsthand the devastation of my community on the day and during the weeks, months and years afterwards. Litigation has finally forced a massive compensation payout from the company responsible for providing electrical power even though it continued to deny liability as a condition of settlement.

Do you honestly think any of these outcomes would have been achieved without recourse to the Courts being available?

Back to the topic, perhaps....

Kaz

[Tidbinbilla]

Indeed. Back on topic, please.

[Geosync]

Being in aviation claims, I've seen it go both ways, but if the King Air was unoccupied and the 172 flat out hit it, the liability is pretty clear cut. Even if the KA was dead center in the middle of the taxiway a halfway decent lawyer can make a strong case that it was 100% the fault of the 172. The key fact is that the KA was parked with no crew inside. If the KA insurance company adjusters kick it to the lawyers, the 172 guys should just pay the darn claim and move on, or they'll end up spending more in defending their position with a good chance they'll lose the case anyway. It's a money game, and in the world of insurance, this is no big deal when there are $1,000,000 plus claims happening every day(yes, a simple birdstrike can cost big coin). Plus aviation insurance is a small world. If you try to stick it to a counterpart by not paying, it will catch up to you when the positions are reversed. The best action would be to settle it and move along.

[Grogmonster]

Can we please put this one to bed? Here are some facts. The Kingair was parked and locked. The pilot was in town nowhere near the aircraft. There were no lines marked. There was enough room to taxi another Kingair past the parked aircraft and probably room enough for a B737. It was the C172 pilot's fault clear and simple. So get over it and move on!

Groggy

[morno]

Here here Groggy. Our little C172 pilot that tried to shift the blame off himself has been awfully quiet since no one has really defended him..... :=

morno