CRM - single pilot minded captains

[runwayedge]

Hi all,

I would just like to hear a few point of view from a flight I've had lately.
I'm a fairly new FO with around 500 hours on type but I have over 1000 hours doing various other flying jobs. Recently on a flight with a captain I felt as though he has no trust in the FO's.

At the briefing, he would sit quietly and work out fuel figures himself not asking what I think. Our company procedures state that both pilots need to discuss the fuel situation although the final decision always lies with the captain.

I was PF. When I called for a checklist he would say, we don't need that now. Well do it later. Below level 100 he was always talking and we fly in a very busy area. But what I found worst of all is he was always playing with the FMS. Modifying the plan, constraints, CI, conversion speeds. He was doing this all without talking or mentioning what he was doing.

For the approach I prepared I gave a full brief explaining why I wanted to do what I had planned. Everything was fine no questions asked then a few mins later he starts fiddling again and modifies the plan. He turns to me and says we don't need to do it like this. 2 minutes later ATC ask us to meet the constraints which I had originally inserted which he then re-inserted. He would adjust the FCU without asking or explaining.

I could go on but it made for an atmosphere where it showed that he wants to do it all. No trust in the FO. I am vey humble with my ability. I'm new to this and I know I'll improve. But I've had no comments from captains before about my performance or decision making. I've had excellent feedback from my OPC's.

I can't help but feel that a bad situation has the potential to get worse due to a captain who's not willing to involve his FO.

Does anyone here feel it's right if or the PNF to modify the FMS and use the FCU without discussing or explaining? (Have in mind that this was on a routine day where everything went to plan flight wise)

Talking below level 100 and as low as 2000' in very busy airspace?

Even taking off his seatbelt at low altitude and leaning across the cockpit to look out.

Any input would be great, how would people react to this?

I hope all is well and look forward to hearing captain and FO opinions.

[4Greens]

If it is possible, talk it over with a Fleet Manager or a Safety manager if you have one. No names initially.

It sounds really bad.

[Piltdown Man]

Let the miserable :mad: do all of the flying. Don't touch anything unless he says. When the numptie eventually realises what is going on, say that you prefer to do P2 when he is captain. Do not start anything in flight. On the ground, walk away if he wants to discuss anything. I've flown with these types and despite all of their bluster, they are the most insecure people you will ever meet. Eventually, you might be able to do a deal (he does not want a call from the Chief Pilot), but don't count on it. Eventually, he'll ask why he is flying all of the time. On the ground, give him both barrels.

People like this are a safety risk. As far as they are concerned they are as close to perfect as it is possible to be. Don't ever fight them in the air. Deal with them only on the ground. As for the resolution, most companies are aware of these people in their midst and would like to see them "reform". With your help, they might.

[runwayedge]

Thank you for the replies. Its really helping! It's a big contrast to a recent flight with a good captain where I'm made to feel my value is appreciated! I have a flight with this a** soon so we'll see how it goes. I'll never start a fight in the air. Even if I am pi**ed off. Thanks for the advice.

[Piltdown Man]

I'll add to my previous post. Until a few years ago we had some types who were like this. All had skin as thick as rhinos. They just didn't get this modern two pilot sort of stuff. They were totally un-reformable. Fortunately the company they ended up working for was not. They either retired early or got the chop. Your job is to be professional with these numpties. Unless they are going to kill you, take it easy. But always tell them what you are going to do and why. They will probably disagree, but what the heck. Look as this challenge as a learning experience... and let your company deal with them (eventually).

[hikoushi]

Next layover you have with this jack@$$, take him to the hotel bar, buy him a few beers. Put yourself in the following mindset before you open your mouth:

You must not be arrogant towards him as, like it or not, he has vastly more experience than you in aviation. You must approach him in this way as an equal HUMAN, not an equal pilot (even if your skill level is in fact higher than his, which it may be for all I know). This is how you avoid a holier-than-thou attitude of excessive assertiveness, which is not much better than HIS attitude is towards you. This may create a space in which he will actually LISTEN to you. When he is all liquored-up and happy, in as friendly of a manner and wording as possible (your own words, of course, more gentle than these) persuade him to:

"Get over yourself. Try to enjoy your life and your job more. You are not better than everyone else. Neither am I or anyone else. And no one would care if you were, either. Never stop studying hard, fly as well as you can, and do your job to the best of your ability. Try to expand your own box a little when you can, WITHOUT looking down on everyone else because they aren't as "perfect" as you".

For yourself, remember these things for the balance of your career:

If you are a captain, give your FO's enough space and autonomy to do their job well, and trust (but verify!) them to get it done. Watch what they do when you let them do their job their own way; you just may learn something new. If you don't like it or they aren't up to snuff, take command and change it. But don't pull that trigger over stupid little micromanaging BS things.

If you are a first officer, give the captain enough space and authority to run the ship his own way without constantly second-guessing him on stuff that is more to do with his personal rhythm than flight safety. If it is within the bounds of legality, safety, "standard-enoughness", respect, and reason, learn and try the captain's way of doing things, even if you don't like it, just to exercise your own mental flexibility. Remembering that, it his ship to run as he prefers to run it. With the exception of the aforementioned points, it is not your place to make him flow with your rhythm, but it IS your place to "be the chameleon" and flow with his. Of the things you learn while doing this, use your judgment to keep what works and chuck the rest. That includes everything I've just written here.

Have a beer. Lighten up. :D

[+TSRA]

Hi runwayedge,

Have to agree with everyone above me here: these people still exist in aviation.

Unfortunately, while the industry is weeding the majority of them out, we will never get rid of them and it is up to the rest of us to do our utmost to maintain our own composure.

I like what PiltdownMan said: let him do all the flying. It blows to sit on your hands for a couple sectors, but this is often the only tool available to you with these personality types.

Of course, it is also very possible the other pilot was just having a very bad day and that your next experience with him will be much more favourable. Try not to judge him too much before your next flight as you'll only seed the situation. Go in with your, obviously, open mind and see where it goes. If it's still like that, go see whomever is next up the chain in command for reporting this sort of behaviour.

Now, as for the FMC. I've not ever worked for an operator who allowed a pilot to make changes to the FPL, NAV, or FUEL pages carte blanche. It's always been a two-pilot confirmation on anything that would change the profile of the aircraft. This is where your SOP's come into play.

Good luck and let us all know how it goes! :)

[tommoutrie]

Mods, can you put the single pilot captain and argumentative co pilots together and see if they kill each other?

[INeedTheFull90]

These people do exist. I'm still very new at 1000 hours and a few people make me uncomfortable. I just stay professional, follow SOPs all of the time and ensure that I speak up there's anything I don't like or if there's any doubt in my mind (just think board of enquiry and what they would say if I didn't speak up).

There are people who I dislike flying with and don't look forward to it because of their attitude or their flying. But I just remember what I have been taught in training and what I've learned on line and try put that into practice.

Then you get the guys who insist something one day and the next guy the day after tell you off for doing something in a way that your captain the previous day insisted you do.

I like a full and concise brief, but I've been stopped from doing it with guys chipping in and saying "Standard Anytown, no questions" before I've had a chance to speak.

I think my flying is ok as a whole but there is one particular guy who always asks 'how many hours do you have now?'. And then proceeds to say 'at X hours you should no better' or 'you shouldn't be doing that at X hours' having done exactly the same as the previous days with nothing said. It's very demoralising and is in no way constructive criticism (which I always welcome) this guy does it to belittle me and put me down. But I just tell myself we have 100 good guys for every bad egg in my company. My personal favourite was him showing me now to land on our notorious runway 'properly' only for him to screw it up royaly - but you live and learn.

There will always be guys like the one you discuss. They just want to get through the day without having to file a report and/or to show you who is boss. You'll also get the guys who really want to develop you as a FO and when I fly with those guys I use it an opportunity to learn something new, discuss something or to ask questions and to help me improve my knowledge and develop.

I appreciate I ramble, but 'be a chameleon' was drilled into me since day one. Just go with the flow and unless there is an immediate threat to safety just go with the flow, keep professional and follow SOPs.

It's a funny job at times!

[glendalegoon]

Runwayedge:

Welcome to the process of making you a better pilot. YUP, YOU.

You are learning how NOT to be a captain! Congratulations.

The captain in question may have flown with some really bad copilots. I've seen it.

28 years ago I was with a turboprop regional, you would know the name. My first line trip (mind YOU I had been at two other little airlines and had plenty of time, the other two airlines went out of business) was with a crappy pilot.

His briefing was: I hate you new copilots so just sit on your hands and I'll fly, you can work the radio, try not to screw it up.


We were cleared into position and hold (that's what we called it back then, not LINE UP AND WAIT). Captain Wonderful advanced the throttles and started to roll for takeoff, I pulled the throttles back and said: WE ARE NOT CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF< HOLD POSITION>

A minuted later, the tower said: RADAR RELEASE DELAYED, REMAIN IN POSITION AND HOLD.

Captain wonderful looked at me, realizing I had saved his license. I explained to him that I had as many hours as he did and had worked at two other regionals and that I would like his cooperation.


He came around and treated me just fine after that. He apologized the next day after he saw that I could fly.


When you are in a plane you are obligated to keep things safe and you must help the captain do that. Put your ego aside.

ONCE YOU ARE ON THE GROUND tell him what you think (and I hope you are right). But it is time to "MAN UP" .

Good Luck