Shoreham or Elstree?

[Grim Reaper 14]

So close to my PPL I can taste it, but Central London based, so (for reasons I won't go into) my choices of 'home' field are limited to Shoreham or Elstree. Any recommendations for or against either?:) Ta!

[HelenD]

You could consider Southampton as the airfield is right next to a train station. You would also have 2 flying schools to choose from. Out of the 2 fields you have suggested i would go for Shoreham as its not Cabair.

[Grim Reaper 14]

Fantastic... I ask for info on Shoreham or Elstree, and someone says to try So'ton. I give up...:rolleyes:

[FNG]

An odd pairing, but here goes. I have flown from Elstree quite a bit (indeed I did my Skills Test from there). I have visited Shoreham a few times and flown through their airspace quite often.

Elstree has a shortish and rather rough runway. The grass taxiways and parking areas are bumpy and tend to get muddy. Parking space is limited. Because of the airfield's location, and vigorous noise campaigning, the circuit patterns are huge and the options for emergency landings minimal. Compared to other airfields, and to Shoreham in particular, Elstree looks and feels a bit run down. The FISOs were criticised in the past but as they are said to have improved and I haven't been there for a while to check, I'll assume that they have, so this should not be a factor. The plus points are proximity to central London, a reasonable cafe and a shop. You can rent Cessnas from Firecrest, Warriors from Cabair and, more interestingly, a Bulldog and a Pup from Skysport. There's also a Chipmunk available for dual (I'm not sure it it can be rented solo).

Shoreham has well maintained runways, taxiways and apron. The whole place is in good condition. ATC are friendly and efficient. You can get into open airspace and gain height more rapidly than you can at Elstree, where you have to travel a little way to clear nearby controlled airspace. I can't comment on the schools/clubs/hire organisations at Shoreham.

If you are really limited to these two, and don't mind the extra travelling to Shoreham, then I would be inclined to go there.

[BRL]

I would say Shoreham but i am biased as i am based there...!!! Its got 2 grass runways and a tarmac one. The airfield gets very busy but dont let that put you off. I have found that flying when busy has improved my flying no end and also if you learn at a less busy airfied then when you do come accross a busy airfield, you wont be too freaked out by it all. It has a good web-site, just do a search as i can't remeber it off-hand. Its easy to get to as well. The main road outside the north end of the airfield is a busy road that comes off the main London-Brighton road. There is a train station nearby too but you would need to get a cab which would cost around a fiver. The whole airfield has a good little vibe to it i find. Have a good look around the place, come down and have a look. You can't beat the scenery either. The coast just looks brilliant even on a bad day.!! Good luck whatever you choose. :)

[Keef]

Just to infuriate Grim Reaper some more ... I've had bad experiences at both Elstree and Shoreham, from ATCers/FISOs/whatever who were having a bad day. I hear that both are OK nowadays. Not been to either recently to check.

However, coming from London, if Elstree and Shoreham are doable, there are several other places within a similar distance that are worth considering. Depends which railway line you are on, I suppose, and what those "reasons I won't go into" are.

[Final 3 Greens]

Grim Reaper

I'd choose Shoreham as Elstree is so busy these days and the circuits are bizarre due to noise abatement.

Also Shoreham has both hard and grass runways (good experience) and proper ATC so you'll learn R/T.

[Fujiflyer]

Grim Reaper 14

HelenD was only trying to be helpful. We obviously do not know your reasons for the restricted choice, however as someone who trained at Southampton and is now based at Shoreham I thought her point was a good one. :D I thought the train would have been very useful given that you are in London.

Anyway... trying not to be too biased as I fly from Shoreham I do think you would benefit if you trained there. The advice from FNG and BRL is sound however I would just like to put my weight behind it and add a few points. Shoreham ATC are "friendly," welcoming and VERY professional. One of the ATCO's is an ex LGW controller. I have never been in "trouble" with them although occasionally you do hear them scold someone for doing something which could be dangerous (eg: unauthorised orbit on final, etc). There does seem to be a frequent problem, sometimes, with 2 - 3 pilots transmitting at the same time, even though it is obvious that the controller is about to receive a read back. In these circumstances I would say they are very patient. Remember that they are fully licensed ATCO's so therefore are expected to maintain a degree of formality. In my opinion if you take the correct attitude towards your flying there (ie doing things like getting the ATIS prior to taxi call etc) you will get on fine.

To sum up I would list <some of> the advantages and disadvantages as follows:

+'s

Professional ATC,
Hard runway (essential after few days of rain)
Instrument approach
Friendly terminal building with above average restaurant
Customs (useful for cross channel trips)
Good facilities on the airfield (maintenance, pilot supplies store, etc)
Good mixture of airspace types - London TMA steps down to 2500ft ceiling nearby, yet SHM ceiling is 5500ft and you can even go up to 10000ft over part of the IOW, nearby.


-'s

Expensive fuel
Fairly expensive landings (£12.50 / £7 T&G with no "unmetered" scheme available)
Can get very busy on peak weekends
Subject to fogging in, in Spring & Autumn
Fairly strict rules on operational hours (need to keep locals happy)
No facility for being able to get the car up to the aircraft

Hope this helps, will give you more details if you want,


Fujiflyer :) :) :)

[foxmoth]

As has been said it seems strange to be THAT limited to where to fly from as a LITTLE effort would give much better airfields to fly from, but with only the 2 I would agree with what has been said so far and go for Shoreham

[Wrong Stuff]

I'd have thought a more important question than the state and friendliness of the airfields is which of the flying schools you'd be happiest to learn with. I don't know what's on offer at Shoreham, but the choice at Elstree is very limited - either Cabair or Firecrest - two very different schools at either extreme of the price / service range and nothing in the middle. (I don't think Skysport can do ab initio PPLs there - I'm sure they're not allowed to do circuits.)

Before committing to either airfield, why not visit all the schools and see if any really take your fancy.

Incidentally, my home base is Elstree but I wouldn't recommend the airfield or either school particularly. Nothing really wrong with any of them, but there are lots of better places around.

[Fujiflyer]

Fair point, Wrong Stuff.

Both issues are important (the school & the airfield). As emphasised I agree that its important that you (Grim Reaper 14)make some visits so as to find out where you think will be best for you.


Fujiflyer:) :) :)

[Final 3 Greens]

Skysport can only train PPLs from North Weald/Andrewsfield.

[Grim Reaper 14]

Many thanks for all the input. The reason that I haven't listed my reasons are primarily based on the fact that the last time I asked this question, I was closed down for being a bit vague and a bit too similar to another thread! Blasted administrators....

HelenD, my response was meant to be tongue in cheek rather than dismissive, but I appreciate that it's often difficult to judge a persons tone of voice when they are typing!

Any info on other local to London/public transport fields would be more than welcome really. My choices were based on Elstree being 20 minutes on the train, and Shoreham being near where my Mum lives! (free accommodation etc., combined with fairly regular visits.....sorry Mum!)

Again, many thanks for the sound advice so far, but please don't let that stop you from telling me anything else that might be useful!;)

[A and C]

G r 14 check your email.

[SKYYACHT]

Shoreham every time! Good facilites, and a bit of atmosphere....I believe it is also Britains oldest Municipally owned airport. Try The Flying Hut - good selection of aeroplanes, including a Slingsby T67!

Tailwinds

[cessnababe]

There are at least six schools and several groups at Shoreham so you have plenty of choice of learning environments. As another post stated, Shoreham has loads of atmosphere and history - it is in fact the oldest civil licensed aerodrome in the country - since 1910; there is a fascinating book about the history available in the visitor centre. It also has a museum and a very large shop. The views must be amongst the most spectacular in the country. I am Shoreham based and having worked at Biggin Hill, Redhill and Rochester I think it far surpasses any of the other airfields in the South east.

[ppl(a)]

Shoreham sounds a good idea given the 2 options you mention!

I've based 3 different planes at Elstree over about the last 10 years, basically because it remains the nearest field to me geographically.

ONLY the 2 flying schools can do anything like normal circuits at Elstree, and these are bad enough due to weird noise abatement requirements, while for non-school flyers based there we have to do huge "circuits" which we have to call "local flights"!

The rumours about the dubious "controllers" over the last couple of years haven't been far off!

Incidentally, i wouldn't have thought "expensive landing fees at Shoreham" are likely to be a problem while you're training there - they're possibly all included as the schools are based there.

[Fujiflyer]

ppl(a)

Sadly SHM do not offer a bulk rate to any of the schools or resident pilots. I suspect winging local residents has something to do with this, not to mention the fact that it gets really busy there when the Wx is nice.

Fujiflyer

[Keef]

Shoreham claims it opened in 1910 - which is true. What it doesn't say is that it closed again. It reopened in 1932 or thenabouts (different historians give different dates).

I don't think it's either the oldest continuously open airfield in the UK, or the oldest civil licensed airport.

I think Blackpool (EGNH) is the oldest licensed civil airfield, opened in 1909 and like Shoreham closed for a while (between 1910 and 1924). It reopened on the same site, which had been a military hospital during WW1 and after.

Bristol Filton (EGTG) has been open continuously since 1910.

But don't let that get in the way of some good PR spin, eh?

[Ace Rimmer]

Like the others I'm biased (based there) but I'd have to say Shoreham for all the reasons outlined above PLUS great egg on toast (terminal rest.) and good beer (the best is at Southern Flight). And there tends to be a lot going on (matey was out in his Harvard on Sat doing run and breaks down 07/25 again).
BTW you can get your car to the aircraft (if you move the a/c to the main ramp), saw sombody doing it the other day course that could have been something to do with the a/c being a King 200.

[BRL]

GR14 The reason that I haven't listed my reasons are primarily based on the fact that the last time I asked this question, I was closed down for being a bit vague and a bit too similar to another thread! Blasted administrators....

Interesting. I remember your question. You were not accused of being 'vague', except by another poster. If i remember, your thread was merged with another one which was asking the exact same question. A look further than the 1st page or even a search would have saved you some time. If i would have deleted it, then i would have mailed you to explain why.

[Grim Reaper 14]

But why let the truth get in the way of a good story!!??

Sorry;)

[BRL]

........indeed ;) :D

[GeneralElectric]

Being just down the road from SHM, I want to start training for PPL this summer. It would be rude not to really!

Can anyone (Big Red L perhaps?) recommend the best of the six clubs down there? That is, in terms of price and quality of instruction.

Seems that 2 of the clubs (won't mention here) do not respond to email requests despite promises on their websites..... maybe I should have just picked up the dog and bone in the first place!

Cheers

GE

[BRL]

GE check your e-mail. :)

[slim_slag]

I was back in the UK recently doing a job, drinking warm beer, eating decent curries, and topping up the sophistication levels. I fancied putzing around in a 172, just day VFR, which is permitted with my FAA "back of the cornflake packet" certificate. So I called round all the airports within the M25 to see what was available.

I was happy to pay for as much dual as they considered necessary to check me out, there are differences in procedures between countries, then I wanted to rent. The places in Elstree were pretty bad. They would be delighted to convert me to the CAA PPL, which was not on the cards, as I didn't need it and why the hell would I want to get involved with CAA beaurocracy? I called several times, each time being told the Chief Instructor would call me back, but they never did. All the places around London, with the exception of a place at Biggin Hill who knew what they were talking about and were excellent, were dreadful. No idea of customer service, and I would not shed a tear if they are now out of business. They certainly did not deserve mine.

So I went to Shoreham, to Sussex Flying Club, and after the M25 dross, they were totally refreshing. They would call me when they had a plane available on short notice, the guy in charge there is very friendly, no unnecessary procedures or attitudes, and they don't have their head where the sun doesn't shine. Bit spendy, but that's not their fault. I still get a Christmas card from them, I should go back more often. I'm sure there are other OK places at Shoreham, but I don't know them.

There is a Jabiru club down at Redhill you might want to look at. They are cheap and have performance comparable to 'real airplanes', and when I popped in to say hello they were very friendly and also had good attitudes. I think if you are thinking of recreational flying in the UK, these new microlights should be seriously considered too.