South Coast aircraft down 6/7/14

[50 50]

Reports of a light aircraft crashing into the ocean 1km off the headland at Tomkin, near Batemans Bay.
We are not having a good run lately.
I hope it's just unsubstantiated rumor, but for God sake people, PLEASE be careful this is happening too much.

[500N]

.
Don't normally post but sorry to say it is not a rumour, having just read the article in the SMH
30 minutes before you posted (smh.com.au).

[Pseudonymn]

A very sad week for GA in NSW. May he RIP and condolences to all affected. I hope they find the missing person safe and well, but sadly I fear this will not be so.

SMH Article (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/one-dead-one-missing-in-light-plane-crash-on-south-coast-20140706-zsxyo.html)

[das Uber Soldat]

GW was a great man, helped me during my early years and was someone whos high standards I always aspired to. Will miss him.

[scavenger]

A handwritten note slipped to me by Mr White a few months ago:

Life’s journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘Holy ****…what a ride!

The man loved his flying and was bloody good at teaching it too...I remember his smile when he gently applied the right rudder every time I forgot to in a go-around. Never said a word about it - let his actions do the talking.

Respected and liked by all.

RIP.

[VH-XXX]

What a shocker of a month for Australian aviation. From what I've heard the instructor sounds like a great guy who really loved instructing.

Was this aircraft a Morgan Sierra?

[dubbleyew eight]

Mr White and his passenger, both in their 60s, had set out at 11.50am on an ultralight plane from Moruya airport to conduct a biannual flying assessment of one of the men’s skills.


well done CAsA :mad:

[Horatio Leafblower]

W8,

RAAus people want freedom from CASA oversight of:
- Maintenance
- construction
- medical standards
- licencing and training oversight

CASA has tried to influence and control these factors while granting RAAus the authority to oversee those functions.

I am not sre how on earth you think CASA is in any way responsible for the tragedy that unfolded. :confused:

[VH-XXX]

HLB - I think he was more tong-in-cheek commenting on the bi-annual part. If that's not correct, then I dunno and that's the problem with the written word on a forum.


HLB - as you are likely close to this in terms of what you do, what are your thoughts on conducting BFR's in kit built aircraft?

[Jex]

If anyone wishes to share their memories of Graham, or to pass on any messages to his family, I have started a separate thread here:

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/543110-vale-graham-white.html

Jex

[Old Fella]

XXX, what is the inference in your question?

[Horatio Leafblower]

VH-XXX

I don't get confronted with the problem very much. If I know the builder and I have seen their work during construction I am usually very comfortable (or very polite in declining the offer).

I don't know anything about this event or the aircraft involved (or even what type).

[VH-XXX]

It was a Morgan Sierra if the news reports are correct.

Ferris Wheel crash at Old Bar [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-470339.html)

Same aircraft type of Tarree Ferris Wheel fame and yes, the aircraft design didn't cause it to hit the Ferris wheel, however what was found during the ATSB report told quite a story.

[Old Fella]

XXX, absolutely no link can be drawn between the Old Bar Ferris Wheel accident involving a Morgan Sierra and the tragic accident involving the same type of aircraft, if indeed it was. In fact, despite the findings of the enquiry into the Old Bar accident the Sierra remained remarkably intact.

[VH-XXX]

XXX, absolutely no link can be drawn between the Old Bar Ferris Wheel accident involving a Morgan Sierra and the tragic accident involving the same type of aircraft

Hence my comment. I never suggested that, I was saying that it was the same aircraft type and noted that the aircraft design did not cause it to hit the ferris wheel.

In fact, despite the findings of the enquiry into the Old Bar accident the Sierra remained remarkably intact.

I would be focusing on the findings of the ATSB report including photos, versus what the aircraft looked like after it crashed. The wreckage underwent expert analysis by trained investigators and engineers.

[Old Fella]

XXX, by focusing on the ATSB report and the photographs therein, one could call into question the build quality of the Old Bar accident aircraft. It seems to me that you are inferring that the accident yesterday may involve an aircraft with similar deficiencies without any shred of evidence that such is the case.

It would be prudent to wait until further information is available, at least until the aircraft type is confirmed by a relevant authority rather than the SMH or other news source.

[VH-XXX]

Old Fella, I'm only going to say this one more time. I'm not inferring anything regarding the aircraft type, so please do not continue to suggest this. Please read my post carefully.

[Old Fella]

XXX, I think I know the meaning of "manufacturer". Any aircraft built from a kit has, by definition, been "constructed" from a kit which has been "manufactured".

The Sierra may be constructed by the manufacturer, Morgan's, or from a kit by another constructor. Having been involved in aircraft maintenance and/or operation since the late 1950's I think I have a grasp of aviation terminology.

As for suggesting you have a grudge against the Morgan Sierra, nothing of the sort entered my mind.

[Old Fella]

XXX, just enquiring re your post in which you said "in GA speak the kit builder means the manufacturer". I seems to have gone missing....

[Ultralights]

Daily telegraph reporting possible bird strike as the cause.

[VH-XXX]

They got that from the President who suggested that it could have happened because Moruya is a coastal area with lots of birds. As much as I know it can, a bird shouldn't take out an aircraft.

[Checklist Charlie]

" a bird shouldn't take out an aircraft"

Perhaps you could discuss that belief with Capt Chelsey Sullenberger and F/O Jeff Skiles.

CC

[Ultralights]

i wouldn't be surprised if they hit a pelican! and hitting one in a morgan, in the canopy could be deadly. as it would in most lighties.

coming head to head with a pelican at 120 kts in a 172 is a scary situation, and those morgans, with the jabiru 3300 can easily cruise at 120kts.

[VH-XXX]

I guess the "something fell off the plane" comments from the public could indeed be a bird of the result there-of.

If I recall correctly the Zodiac that went in at the Gold Coast a few years back was thought to have had a bird strike.

[motzartmerv]

What a sad day. Sad for several reasons. Sad the aviation has lost one of the last true gentleman pilots, that would give the shirt of his back to help a budding pilot out. And sad we have to listen to the usual "arm chair air crash investigators, regurgitate news reports and off hand tales of birds and broken ferris wheels.
Hows a bout a thought spared for the families, and his close friends, of which there are hundreds.

[spinex]

I've said it before and will no doubt have to say it again a couple of times before I check out; "Bloody aeroplanes, love them dearly, but they cause a fair share of my heartache too". I too lost my original PPL instructor and latterly good friend, arriving on the beach just after he'd gone in on backline. Have to say I don't recall instructing the rest of the world on how they had to think and behave in the immediate aftermath, but perhaps time has added a layer of courtesy to my memory.

Both this one and the recent Inverell 210 really hit home for me, involving people who on the face of it were acting quite reasonably and going about their recreation and aviation business. It's easier to exclude those who poke their noses into grim weather or IMC - as in "yes but I'd never do that".

Often said that there aren't any new ways to write yourself off in an aircraft, so that really leaves; the builder, the designer, the pilot or some outside agency - like a bird. I hope they find the cause, although sadly the longer the search takes, the less likely they are to find all the bits, including that reputed to have fallen off beforehand. Anyone know the source of that report ie. kid on the beach or someone who had may have had an understanding of what they were seeing?

[Jack Ranga]

And sad we have to listen to the usual "arm chair air crash investigators, regurgitate news reports and off hand tales of birds and broken ferris wheels.
Hows a bout a thought spared for the families, and his close friends, of which there are hundreds.

Dood, as sad as this event is, it is human nature to speculate & solve the accident. If friends & family don't want to read it, don't. But it's human nature to take a peak also isn't it. As far as journalists coming to this site and reprinting posts, sue them for libel or defamation.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Hows a bout a thought spared for the families, and his close friends, of which there are hundreds. Oh please - spare me!

Whenever there is a prang we speculate on this forum as to what might have happened. IMO its in a pilot's nature to do so.

Whenever we do, someone posts a line like that above - which we ignore!

So why bother? If you don't like it - don't log in!

[VH-XXX]

Speculating is part of the learning process. By the time the ATSB has worked it out it's usually 2.5 years later and the accident is long gone from our memories. For RAA aircraft, there usually is not the ATSB involved so we may never ever hear about this again.

By suggesting for example it was a bird strike, someone might read this and think twice about skimming along a beach at 50ft where birds usually reside and it might save another life or two. If you think to yourself that a bird could bring down your aircraft you may be extra cautious on your next flight. (Note: 50ft comment is not related this thread)

If a 210 goes in after taking off at last light and everyone starts suggesting somotographical illusion, then great, there's something I have just learnt about that I will keep in mind for my next flight. If the accident didn't happen, we wouldn't have been discussing it.

The best way to learn about aviation is to talk about it, consult with your resident airport peanut gallery, instructors, students and CPL's. The clinical approach of heading in to your local sausage factory for your 1 hour lesson and heading home straight afterwards won't get you the "life" experience that you need to be a safer and older pilot.

[Guilders]

I'm with the previous three posters on this point! If 1 pilot learns something (and lives a bit longer) from reading 'speculation' on here, then that's gotta be a good thing AND the accident was not for nothing!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Food for thought..??

No matter how many 'new' accidents / incidents we read about on these austere pages, it seems that there are no 'new' reasons.....

(OK - Some 'avoidable' and some maybe not). e.g. Structural Failure, EFATO into 'bad terrain' etc...

For many VFR flights into IMC, and the 'disorientation' that usually follows, it has often been pointed out that the funeral will usually be held on a fine sunny day!!
Yet, there are those who would still 'POR'...Press On Regardless...full of their own new found abilities...not!

And I too do miss the ole' Aviation Safety Digest where the story was told in a 'pilot to pilot' factual manner, and so, many of us actually learned without it being the 'hard way'..... well most of the time.....

On how many occasions have some of us stood around the 'Bar' discussing someone's 'most recent event', beer in hand, speculating, formulating theories, and most of all sharing ideas and learning.

"What might I have done"? in the same circumstances..??

Of course, we are ALL 'wise in hindsight' but the fact remains, we have thought about it, maybe formed an opinion, and learned....

In the absence of our favourite bar, we now have this forum, which really is the same thing - only not as 'congenial' and some 'original' ideas may be a bit further apart perhaps....

But the idea is the same. Pilots will talk and speculate, and criticise other pilots and their actions ad finitum.
'Tis a form of sharing and learning...well mostly!

E.G. Only last night I was watching 'Air Crashes' on the box, and saw a couple of 737's crash because of an autopilot fault.
So, in hindsight, we all ask, why not turn off the autopilot, and handfly the aeroplane?
With a certain 'attitude' and a certain 'power setting' it will continue to fly, or to climb, or to descend to a safer level, or whatever?
Power/attitude/trim..??

I know, there are 'extenuating circumstances', but you get the basic idea.....

'Commercial' over....normal viewing resumes....

(Hat, coat,........) :ok:

[fairoaks flyer]

What was the aircraft type please?

[Old Fella]

FF. It has been said to be a Morgan Sierra.

[motzartmerv]

Yes, speculate away, for all the good it will do. My point was that there was 4 posts offering some form of human condolence, and then the experts pipe up, in the usual fashion. Saying its just how you do it round here is no excuse.
There is still people missing from this accident. Its all fun and games until its your mate, or father, or Instructor.

My sincerest condolences to the families who are suffering.

[Wally Mk2]

Well said 'Griffo':ok:
'Motza' I think you miss the point. let the search continue let the official investigation continue but also let the discussions continue.

Humans always learn from others mistakes if indeed that's what we have here (yet to be determined) so nobody here is bagging the people involved & in a strange sort of way this is the way the flying community grieve. We cant bring these two back nor the thousands that have died before them doing what they love but we can discuss it & hopefully it will leave that slight doubt in the back of another aviators mind making him/her think more to perhaps save another potential disaster.
My above is of a generic nature, not linked to this actual event.

Wmk2

[spinex]

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/543110-vale-graham-white.html

MM the above may have escaped your notice, suggest you may be better off there. Lashing out here isn't helping your cause and it may be as well to stop and consider that you aren't the only person ever to have lost a loved one or close mate in an air crash. Play with these things long enough and sadly there is a fair chance of it happening to someone in your circle.

[outnabout]

Ex FSO Griffith - well said, that man.


The only difference between PPRUNE and the bar is that PPRUNE is more public, and people feel they are anonymous.

[Jack Ranga]

Yes, speculate away, for all the good it will do. My point was that there was 4 posts offering some form of human condolence, and then the experts pipe up, in the usual fashion. Saying its just how you do it round here is no excuse.
There is still people missing from this accident. Its all fun and games until its your mate, or father, or Instructor.

FFS, Don't come to this thread, don't read it. Or live in China where sites like this don't exist.

[Old Fella]

Speculation is best confined to investing. One poster says we learn from speculating, another says those who do speculate offend family & friends of accident victims.

From personal experience I believe speculation by contributors to this forum, in regard to aircraft accidents, serves no useful purpose. Investigators will, in most cases, determine what caused an accident or incident. When their findings are published is the time for "learning".

Those reading these forums have to accept that much of what is contributed can come from ill-informed people, many whom have no knowledge of matters aviation in general and probably are not qualified to offer an opinion. We can all learn something each day but what we learn needs to be accurate and not mere speculation.

RIP those lost.

[Atlas Shrugged]

The clinical approach of heading in to your local sausage factory for your 1 hour lesson and heading home straight afterwards won't get you the "life" experience that you need to be a safer and older pilot.

Couldn't agree more!

:D

[Creampuff]

Investigators will, in most cases, determine what caused an accident or incident. When their findings are published is the time for "learning".OF: Can you cite any recent example of any ATSB report that states what caused an aviation accident or incident?

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

RIP those lost

I would be surprised if your gratuitous condolences achieve more than our "speculation"!

[Old Fella]

Creampuff, if you are asking if I can cite an investigation in which the ATSB has apportioned blame the answer is NO. If you are asking if findings were published the answer is YES. Most recently, the fatal accident of VH-CKS. My point is that the findings of investigators will generally be more accurate than the speculations of posters on forums such as this.

ForkedTailDrKiller. I am not sure what makes my condolences gratuitous. Your comment is unwarranted in my opinion, but I may be just old fashioned.

[Compylot]

Oh please - spare me!

Whenever there is a prang we speculate on this forum as to what might have happened. IMO its in a pilot's nature to do so.

Whenever we do, someone posts a line like that above - which we ignore!

So why bother? If you don't like it - don't log in! I would be surprised if your gratuitous condolences achieve more than our "speculation"! What brings a tear to my eye is the 'gratuitous' bullsh!t posted by fools such as forktaileddrkiller who have nothing else to do at age 55 but join a forum after they've suddenly discovered the internet and now having 3500 posts somehow think they are qualified to have an opinion that matters.

Well it doesn't.

Have some humanity and learn some respect. (you're never too old)

Oh and please, spare me your "gratuitous" reply, your opinion matters nothing to me so live and learn.

[gerry111]

Compylot,

I don't think that my opinion is really important to others. And with the greatest of respect, neither that of you nor FTDK.

But I certainly disagree with you that FTDK is a fool, as you accuse.

You identify as aged 23. I suspect that FTDK has just a little more of life's experience under his belt than you do. Not to mention G.A. experience...

Please learn to argue credibly rather than simply insult.

(Sorrry everyone for the drift. Now back to thread.)

[50 50]

Oh for f&ck sake, that's it, I quit the Internet.

[Stanwell]

Compylot,
Kindly moderate your tone.
Suggest you come back to this thread when you've given it a bit of thought.

[VH-XXX]

Please don't degrade the thread to the point it closes as some credible information I've been told is about to come to light via official channels and I suspect it will be published elsewhere and inevitably here. Let's see what happens when the wreck is brought to the surface hopefully in the very near future.

[Creampuff]

Creampuff, if you are asking if I can cite an investigation in which the ATSB has apportioned blame the answer is NO.OF, I didn't ask you that.

You said:Investigators will, in most cases, determine what caused an accident or incident.I asked:Can you cite any recent example of any ATSB report that states what caused an aviation accident or incident?That question still stands.

If your answer to that question is:[T]he fatal accident of VH-CKS, could you please quote the parts of the investigation report that state what caused the accident.

[Kharon]

From which the following data has emerged:-

Reports of a light aircraft crashing into the ocean 1km off the headland at Tomkin, near Batemans Bay.

Mr White and his passenger, both in their 60s, had set out at 11.50am on an ultralight plane from Moruya airport to conduct a biannual flying assessment of one of the men’s skills

It was a Morgan Sierra if the news reports are correct.

Daily telegraph reporting possible bird strike as the cause.

I guess the "something fell off the plane" comments from the public could indeed be a bird of the result there-of.

So far as I can tell, we have two competent airmen doing a bi-annual review in a Morgan Sierra. Sometime during the flight 'something' has occurred resulting in one dead, one missing.

Speculation, bird strike, or structural, or engine.

Birds – Pelican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_pelican) – weighs in at 4.5 – 7.7 Kg; (F=MA). Was there Pelican activity that day, do they 'hold' in the area; a dozen Seagulls same thing. Have we any idea of how high the aircraft was at the 'crucial' moment. Bird strike = No data.

Structural, this argument could carry some weight; if we could reasonably assume the aircraft was in a position to make a forced landing (experienced, competent instructor). This nullifies the engine out argument somewhat; as a forced landing, even on the water has a 'survival' rating. Structural= No data. EINOP = No data...

There were two pilots on board, so the chances of dual, simultaneous heart attack can be ruled out.

So here we sit, two good men short, two grieving families to consider and no sensible answer to offer as to why this tragic event happened. However, if there is even a remote chance of this accident reoccurring, for whatever reason and other families are to be spared the grief, then respectful but diligent investigation is not only required, but essential.

Just my two bob's worth....

[SIUYA]

Creampuff asked:

Can you cite any recent example of any ATSB report that states what caused an aviation accident or incident?

When you say 'recent' Creampuff, what's your timeframe?

[Creampuff]

Let’s say the last 5 years.

“The pilot was forced to land Cessna XYZ because the engine ceased to deliver any power. The engine ceased to deliver power because component x failed. Component x failed because … Component x was torqued to that value because … "

[tecman]

Think you've about nailed it, Kharon. I knew Graham and have avoided this thread to date. But in the end, it's about information dissemination, however imperfect the messages and the medium. If there's the smallest possibility of avoiding a similar accident tomorrow or in a year's time, respectful, objective and thoughtful discussion can only help.

I also commend Compy for calling out plain bad behaviour. It doesn't matter if you're 23 or 83, or whether you're interacting personally or on an internet forum, loss of life demands respect and to question the sincerity of the grief or sympathy of others is pretty poor.

[Old Fella]

Creampuff

Please refer to the link below, open the applicable report on VH-CKS, and the PDF attached and read the FINDINGS.

If that does not answer your question of me then there is little point in continuing this conversation.

Safety investigations & reports (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/safety-investigation-reports.aspx?mode=Aviation)

[spinex]

So in the midst of a slew of motherhood statements, pious instruction on how to behave online and the like, do we actually know anything about this accident - beyond the fact that it happened?

I raised the question earlier as to what weight could be given to the eye witness report of something falling from the aircraft before it crashed, does anyone know who observed this?

On a more general level, notwithstanding some of the wilder flights of fancy seen here, it is interesting to note that once again the focus of the pprune thread was on the crux of the recent Chipmunk crash ie. it failed to recover from a spin, something that has happened before with this type. By all means maintain an open mind, but discount the group intelligence or herd instinct if you will, at your peril.

[Creampuff]

Creampuff

Please refer to the link below, open the applicable report on VH-CKS, and the PDF attached and read the FINDINGS.

If that does not answer your question of me then there is little point in continuing this conversation.It does answer my question.

You are unable to cite any recent example of any ATSB report that states what caused an aviation accident or incident. :=

The “FINDINGS” of the Report say: Contributing factors

• The pilot attempted a landing at Boxwood after last light, knowing that the lighting was inadequate.

• The single-point light from vehicle headlights did not provide adequate guidance for an approach and landing at night.

• The airstrip did not meet the physical and obstacle clearance requirements for night operations.Those are all merely assertions of fact. None of them is a statement of what caused the accident/incident. Indeed, they don’t even state what the accident/incident was! :D

QED.

[Jabawocky]

Creamie….I will have a crack at it. I would like to claim this as my own original works but I did …err borrow it from the Great Allan Moffat.

He confused ambition with ability. And this always ends with the mother of all :mad:ups!

How is that? :ok:

[VH-XXX]

Please stick to the topic so it doesn't get shut down.

I assure you that information will be shortly available that will quickly give the reason for this crash.

[Fantome]

. . ... a timely warning . . .. . . stay moderate or be moderated . .. . . GW himself would expect no less. . .

( there are indeed some wise old owls hereabouts .. . . . so just take five before firing from the hip. . )

[Creampuff]

So what is: "the topic"?

The thread title is a statement that an aircraft went down on the South Coast on 7 July.

That statement has proved to be true.

Therefore the thread should now be locked because the statement is no longer a matter of debate?

If more discussion is permissible in this thread, what issues may be discussed?

Can someone open another thread titled: "Speculation on why the aircraft went down on the South Coast on 7 July"?

If yes, what's the point of worrying about speculation as to the causes of accidents and incidents, on pprune? :confused:

[Jabawocky]

Hey XXX and Fantome….we were only replying to anthers post….not that far off topic. :O

[Jack Ranga]

Compylot is an imbecile. Read any of his posts & you will deduct this. I wouldn't be congratulating the clown for any thing he writes.

Despite any of the speculation here I have concluded that the instructor on board this flight was a competent & respected aviator.

Anybody with any brains can weed the garbage out from some of the reasoned speculation on threads such as these. If you don't like the comments, don't read the thread or block the poster.

[Pinky the pilot]

Steady on Jack. You don`t want to be banned again, do ya?:D:=

Despite any of the speculation here I have concluded that the instructor on board this flight was a competent & respected aviator.

Anybody with any brains can weed the garbage out from some of the reasoned speculation on threads such as these. If you don't like the comments, don't read the thread or block the poster.

Agreed! Especially with the first paragraph.

[Old Fella]

Creampuff

Your response to my last is baffling to say the least. If I were to post my thoughts I would likely be blocked by the moderators. Suffice to say that if you really believe that the published findings in relation to the fatal accident involving VH-CKS do not offer causes for the accident then I do not know what will. You say they are merely "assertions of fact". It should be obvious that the statements refer to the VH-CKS accident. What more do you wish for?

You, like many others, are not prepared to offer any clue in your public profile as to your qualifications, aviation experience or anything that may inform whether or not you are simply engaging in argumentative comment for arguments sake.

[Creampuff]

So what does the report say caused the accident?

You seem to be suggesting it's "obvious".

Please just cut and paste the cause that you say is stated in the report.

[Jack Ranga]

Steady on Jack. You don`t want to be banned again, do ya?

Pinky, read his old posts mate. You won't read bigger drivel anywhere else :ok:

[Old Fella]

Creampuff, if you are unable to accept that the "Contributing Factors" listed, in the report previously mentioned, amount to stating a cause or causes which led to the accident then I fear your comprehension of the English language is flawed.

Contributing factors means, to me at least, that there was no single cause which led to the final outcome. Multiple contributing factors together led to the accident occurring.

You can post whatever response you like to this reply. One of us is obviously as thick as two bricks and I don't think it is me.

[Creampuff]

It’s almost certainly me. :ok:

I just thought that an important ‘contributing factor’ – maybe even the most important ‘contributing factor - might have been whatever caused the pilot to make the decision to attempt that landing in those circumstances.

[Jack Ranga]

Stupidity?

[Creampuff]

Maybe.

Maybe not.

The report doesn't state pilot stupidity as a cause (or 'contributing factor').

I haven't met too many pilots that I'd consider stupid.

A decision might look stupid in hindsight, but wouldn't it be more helpful if more energy were focussed on investigating what causes otherwise competent and intelligent people to make a decision that seemed to them to be a good decision at the time?

If the implicit message in all these kinds of reports is "stupid pilot", why bother investigating the accident?

[Pinky the pilot]

Slight thread drift:E

You won't read bigger drivel anywhere else

Try reading Hansard!:yuk:

Back to the thread.

[Jack Ranga]

I haven't met too many of us that are stupid either, that's why most of us are still alive :ok:

[Creampuff]

I know quite a few pilots that I wouldn't consider stupid but who have nonethless perished in accidents while PIC. :(

[Jack Ranga]

They may have not done anything stupid to perish, this person however, did.

[spinex]

I see wreckage and remaining body found this afternoon.

[VH-XXX]

Based on that Spinex we should quickly hear what went wrong :-(

[roundsounds]

NSW Police have issued a media release advising they have located the missing pilot and aircraft wreckage.

http://m.police.nsw.gov.au/news_media_releases?sq_content_src=%2BdXJsPWh0dHBzJTNBJTJGJT JGZWJpenByZC5wb2xpY2UubnN3Lmdvdi5hdSUyRm1lZGlhJTJGMzkyNTYuaH RtbCZhbGw9MQ%3D%3D

[spinex]

Based on that Spinex we should quickly hear what went wrong :-(

Let's hope so, I hear that the wreckage is pretty much reduced to kit form though.

[muffman]

Wreckage has been brought to the surface.

Plane crash: Search for answers continues PHOTOS, VIDEO | Bay Post (http://www.batemansbaypost.com.au/story/2419290/plane-crash-search-for-answers-continues-photos-video/?cs=12#slide=1)

[spinex]

Pretty sobering photos there muffman, I'd heard via the bush telegraph that the wreck was pretty chopped up, but that's nasty, a lot worse than the Lightwing that went into the water on Victor 1 a few years back. I'm guessing these poor blokes were a bit higher than 500/1,000' when it all went wrong.

[truthinbeer]

spinex my understanding from eyewitness reports of the Victor 1 accident was that the plane dived in an intact condition. Please ignore my comment if that is not what you meant.

[spinex]

Yeah I understood that it was a stall/spin scenario on Victor 1 - are you saying what I think you're saying ie. this (Batemans Bay) aircraft had disintegrated before it hit the surface? I know there was talk about something flying off beforehand, maybe even something fairly significant, but that poor plane looks as though it's been fed through a threshing machine.

[VH-XXX]

The Lightwing on Victa 1 was an engine failure and subsequent ditching, so quite different to this one. This one is rumored to have lost a very large component that is required in order to maintain flight.

[truthinbeer]

Yeah I understood that it was a stall/spin scenario on Victor 1 - are you saying what I think you're saying ie. this (Batemans Bay) aircraft had disintegrated before it hit the surface? I know there was talk about something flying off beforehand, maybe even something fairly significant, but that poor plane looks as though it's been fed through a threshing machine. I don't think it spun, just plunged without lift according to everyone I know who witnessed the dive into the ocean. Stalled...communicating, not flying the aircraft. I thought your implication re Batemans was something structural.

OT re Victor 1. I recall seeing aftermath C172 after landing (flipped in surf) in 1985 not 200m from other V1 accident as a result of carb icing. Pilot made a decent attempt at landing on beach flying the a/c down but flipped in the surf along shoreline. All 4 occupants were able to walk away.

[spinex]

:ok: bloody forums, we'd have gotten that straight in a few words over a beer. Still, from all the rustling in the undergrowth, I have a sneaking suspicion that there could be something nasty lurking out there.

[Squawk7700]

Good on the RA-Aus for what they have just done.

Aircraft is lost on 5/7/14, recovered a week or so later, the wreckage investigated and the following Service Bulletin has just been released:

https://www.raa.asn.au/documents/airworthiness/Bowden%20Cable%20bulkhead%20nuts%20bulletin%2021072014.pdf

Nobody had definitively said that this is what happened on the crashed aircraft, however anecdotal evidence suggests that the the release of this SB is in response to this crash.

Joining the dots, elevator control is lost and the aircraft nose dives whilst losing major components on the way down.

[Fantome]

The crucial part regarding worst consequence is this -

Failure to secure attachment points correctly
could potentially induce aerodynamic control
flutter of a primary flight control.