Boeing 737 vs. Airbus A320 advantages

[Diamondpilot]

Hi all,

If you were a boeing 737 salesman, how would you sell the Boeing 737-800 in comparison to the A320? So in other words, what are the unique selling points (USP's) of a Boeing 737-800?

I've never flown a real jet btw, I was just wondering why a company would choose a boeing 737-800 over a Airbus A320..

Thanks!

[glendalegoon]

a company will choose one plane over another due to money.

a pilot will choose a boeing over an airbus because he is a pilot


and a real pilot would choose a douglas.


so, there you are. flying is all about money , and not making money, just losing less of it.

Let's see. How many Airbus aircraft served in World War 2? None.

Then you think of Boeing, Douglas, Lockheed, Martin, and there is history behind the boeing. And you think of all the great French planes that served in WW2.

hmmmm


of course I am being a bit funny. hope it makes sense and I don't get in dutch!.

[Denti]

If memory servers there were quite a few german planes in the war, the company building those planes are now part of airbus as it is.

But then, it is money. Our 737s burn a bit less fuel than our A320s, but then the airbus is much cheaper to lease. Gonna see where that ends, but we might go from a boeing only airline to an airbus only one.

[Captain Spam Can]

Glendalegoon the company where I am, if you asked every Pilot which aircraft they prefer flying I would put money on the fact 9/10 would say Airbus. Infact just over a year agree many were nervous by the fact we might of gone back to Boeing and there was a sigh of relief when Airbus was chosen.

[DIESELENGINE]

From strictly pilot's perspective after over 2000 hours on airbus - all I can say about that thing - that laptop with wings was invented to reduced earth's population

In short, if you're a pilot - airbus will make your living miserable and will kill everything you enjoyed about aviation and flying.


FUN FACT: did you know that airbus is the only airplane manufacturer who's design philosophy created mayday scenarios out of thin air, when otherwise airplane itself was structurally and mechanically sound and who's philosophy was a direct cause or a major contributing factor to deaths of hundreds of people? But the best part is that airbus meanwhile vehemently continues to blame pilots for everything. (I know other manufactures have done that, but boy, airbus takes it to the whole another level.

They even go as far as to ruin lives of their own test pilots just to keep their dumb philosophy in. Its like dudes, c'mon, the wheel has already been invented, what a heck are you doing??!! its not working!! stop killing people!!!
A320 first flew in 1987 and they still haven't figured out how to make it a finished product? They keep pupping out with those OEB's and keep rewriting and inflating FCOMs like there is no tomorrow! (OEB's are basically quick patch-ups for their dumb philosophy) 1987 man!! How much time do they need?!?! When will this stop? "A321,319,350,330,NEO? Airbus! stop it, just finish A320 for crying out loud!"

I mean I understand they would have to pretty much do a complete 180, but aren't people's lives more important???



P.S.
Airbus' pilots lives are so empty and grey that they are actually looking forward towards dying because it will give them something to do! True story!

[fantom]

You, Sir, are an ignoramus of the first order; clearly not a pilot and bereft of the basics of punctuation.

A pox on your houses.

[DIESELENGINE]

fantom - weak

got something constructive to say? - lets hear it.

wanna reserve to personal attack? - go back to third grade, you'll feel right at home :ok:

[megan]

fantom, sounds like SSG has a new name.

[Dan Winterland]

If you were a boeing 737 salesman, how would you sell the Boeing 737-800 in comparison to the A320? So in other words, what are the unique selling points (USP's) of a Boeing 737-800?

You would say something like: "I will sell you 737s cheaper than the A320". That will probably work.

[Dan Winterland]

And ha ha - another A vs B post. Just what PPRuNe needs!

These always bring out the Boeing diehards. I'm bored and have time to kill, so I'm going to enter the fray on the side of Airbus!


Let's see. How many Airbus aircraft served in World War 2? None.

Aah - you must mean the Boeing B17. The aircraft that had so many guns stuck on it with necessary crew to fire them, it could only carry a tiny bomb load.

Airbus is a consortium made up of many European legacy aircraft manufacturers who made many fine aircraft in WW2. Aircraft such as the Mosquito - which carried the same bomb load to Berlin as the B17, but much faster and with much less losses. And MBB is an Airbus partner. I seem to recall one of their previous products, the Bf 109 shot down quite a few B17s. A380 wings are made in the same factory where Wellingtons were built in WW2. That had the same effective load as the B17 too.

did you know that airbus is the only airplane manufacturer who's design philosophy created mayday scenarios out of thin air, when otherwise airplane itself was structurally and mechanically sound and who's philosophy was a direct cause or a major contributing factor to deaths of hundreds of people?

Rudder 737 hardovers - remember those? And while were on the topic of legacy designs, The Boeing practice of constantly re-certifying old aircraft under 'legacy' rules means the 737 is stuck with a 1950's design pressure controller. In my job, I see the incident reports from the majority of the quality reporting systems and I'm amazed at the number of B737 pressurisation failures - as a result of recertifying a system which should have been consigned to museums ages ago. And this has killed people! (Helios crash).

They even go as far as to ruin lives of their own test pilots just to keep their dumb philosophy in.

You must mean the Habschiem accident. This was the pilot doing something stupid and not understanding the systems. This get's raised in every A vs B discussion.


In short, if you're a pilot - airbus will make your living miserable and will kill everything you enjoyed about aviation.

Aircraft manufacturers don't do this - airline executives do! I've been equally as bored and disillusioned in Boeings as Airbusses. Personally, I would say I haven't enjoyed flying big aircraft since leaving the military 15 years ago. Airline flying is dull and the aircraft type doesn't change that. However, I would say that the Airbus flight deck is a more comfortable environment to bet bored in - especially at meal times!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Banter aside, I've flown both A and B products (but not the 737). Both are good there are good and bad points to each in equal measures. But the pilots don't get a say in which type gets purchased - except for when it comes to the re-training task if the type is changed.

[lederhosen]

There seems to be a slight operating cost advantage for the smaller 737s versus Airbus. On the other hand the 321 seems to work better than the 737-900. So if you want flexibility and fleet commonality Airbus wins.

Denti's point about lease costs is an interesting one. It rather depends what deal you do with the leasing companies. Any idea who ultimately controls the lease cost of the aircraft that are joining the fleet? for example the ones from Alitalia.

[DIESELENGINE]

Rudder 737 hardovers - remember those?

sure do Dan. although you could vaguely correlate that to "design philosophy" per se - thats mostly a "design bug" and there is a big difference between the two. No aircraft manufacturer I know of ever came out with an airplane without a single "design bug", but the healthy tendency would be to move AWAY from those old designs and find a solution, which is what boeing and most other manufacturers do
Airbus on the other hand, is the ONLY manufacturer (so far :*) who keeps making giant leaps TOWARDS philosophy that kills people! (philosophy that keeps pilot as far out of the loop as possible)

I assume you've read Airbus' FCOMs, QRH, manuals, performance tables, which aren't even written in real English, and its like they are purposefully trying to confuse the pilot. Let alone the fact that they are constantly switching and changing things around. You can't help but have a feeling that there is bunch of amateurs who keeps dinking around with information and just can't get it right! Its so exhausting! Aren't they an official aircraft manufacturer?!?!:eek:
They do have money, i know that, what stops them from investing into some professionals!

737 is stuck with a 1950's design pressure controller

and we are stuck with thousands of years B.C. design -a wheel :)
C'mon man! just because it was invented in 1950's means its a bad design? what kind of logic is that?
If they figure its a bad design, I think they will move away from that and come up with something safer and more efficient. That kind of thing is the least of our worries Dan, we got Airbus to deal with which is still at large out there! :yuk:

K gotta go..

[Reimers]

P.S.
Airbus' pilots lives are so empty and grey that they are actually looking forward towards dying because it will give them something to do! True story!

I've reported this twice and it did not get removed. Having flown personally with the captain of the Germanwings flight that went down due to suicide I will be unable to continue on a forum that let's insensitive posts like this alone.

Pprune seems to go for anything that drives up internet hits, no longer caring about moderating tech log that contrary to what is stated in the third sticky from the top contains any number of flight simmers' question threads.

Good by everyone (except DIESELPILOT)

[vapilot2004]

Reimers, I am sorry about your friend.

If you're going to sell an airplane, you need to talk numbers - cost.

While the A320 and the 737 are in the same class, they are very different aircraft. The 737 easily beats the A320 on operating costs. Lower fuel consumption and lower maintenance costs as well as a longer design life (cycles). Why? Mainly because the 737 is lighter and simpler than the A320 with regards to fuel and maintenance costs. The relative simplicity of the 737 design also supports a proven dispatch reliability advantage. Airbus can (and frequently does) counter most of these advantages by offering better deals on initial purchase/lease coupled with enhanced maintenance agreements, bringing overall costs to nearly equal.

Fleet commonality is a huge consideration when a major airline chooses one type over the other. From the pilot's perspective, some like the fact that a 737 is a 'pilot's aircraft' - whatever that means (I've trained for both and found them both to be perfectly fine aeroplanes!) while Airbus counters with the fact their airplane is designed to be flown by pilots as well - including those candidates of whom English is not their first language.

Airbus also has the advantage of having an aircraft well positioned, by their ingenious FBW and automation designs, to mitigate the differing standard between the US and the EU on the minimum hours required to step into the cockpit of an airliner. The philosophy of the Airbus promotes safety through computerized protections and simplified systems management, while the 737's edge here is simplicity of design and proven concepts. Both are very safe, very capable aircraft and both have a history of minor design flaws that have since been corrected or mitigated through procedure changes.

I believe the Airbus has Boeing beat on cabin width, and most (at least in the US) operators choose to install better IFE equipment on the A320, giving the paying customers a better experience.

Then there's the difference up front where you've got a nice dinner/reading table in one and a hefty piece of metal between your legs on the other. Who's gonna be the better dance partner for your evening? :}

[DIESELENGINE]

Having flown personally with the captain of the Germanwings flight that went down due to suicide I will be unable to continue on a forum that let's insensitive posts like this alone.

Did you seriously think my PS comment somehow relates to the tragedy of Germanwings?
I think its fairly obvious to everyone with half a brain and one eye, that Germanwings accident had nothing to do with the pilot not liking the airbus.

[TLB]

Another stat to add to the mix: Boeing has sold just over 8,000 B737s while the Airbus A320 family numbers about 6,400 (but they started about 7 years after the first 737). Both aircraft production numbers are currently about 1,000 per year. For what it's worth ...

[striker26]

Both aircraft are good depending on the needs of the airline. I have a friend who works for Bombardier and he says the selling price for each aircraft is so ridiculously different depending on the customer, that they basically make no margin on majority of the aircraft they sell. They make their money after supplying maintenance, training, and service to their aircraft.

CEO's of airlines don't just favor one over the other, it all comes down to the economics of what the airline wants to achieve per passenger, and delivery date among many other factors. The cost efficiency of one aircraft may be better than another but lets say you need 1 aircraft per year guaranteed at similar price and one manufacturer could deliver it sooner than later, that changes your cost efficiency already!

I.e. Air Canada chose 737 MAX's over A320neos (after being an airbus user for decades) because when they initiated their fleet renewal program, Airbus couldn't provide the aircraft when they wanted.

Same thing occurred a few years back when AC was renewing their long range fleet, Airbus introduced the a380 which didn't fit AC's requirements, so AC went with the 777 and 787. Now in the future they'll have a focused Boeing fleet, which means more efficiency for their engineers and technicians.

It would also be wise to consider the fact that most accidents on either aircraft and human error related, not aircraft issues. Yes mechanically the 737 has had its fair share of issues but the next generation of both aircraft are sound.

You could go to any airline and they'll give you different opinions, my take is respect each and if you're a pilot, fly what you're rated on well!

[striker26]

DIESELENGINE - just stop lol, i wouldn't want to be in your airplane. Ever.

[c100driver]

Another stat to add to the mix: Boeing has sold just over 8,000 B737s while the Airbus A320 family numbers about 6,400 (but they started about 7 years after the first 737). Both aircraft production numbers are currently about 1,000 per year. For what it's worth ...

B737 first flight April 1967
A320 first flight February 1987

B737 20 years head start.

B737 orders and deliveries about 12,800 to date
A320 orders and deliveries about 8,100 to date

Half my working life has been the window seats on B737's and as an aircraft I really like it and it is still my favourite airliner of choice, but as a passenger the A320 is far better due almost exclusively to the extra cabin width.

In the final decision it is the customer who decides the aircraft type whether it is the cabin comfort, ticket price or distance flown and the it is the airline management responsibility to make the best guess on what the customer wants to fit the correct aircraft.

[DIESELENGINE]

You must mean the Habschiem accident. This was the pilot doing something stupid and not understanding the systems. This get's raised in every A vs B discussion.


thats the one.
Dan I agree, obviously the pilot was doing something that was against airbus' logic since he ended up with such disastrous results.
But here is my question to the safety board of an airline company that's about to make a decision on A vs B - "Would you want to invest into an airliner that doesn't allow a pilot to fly away from the obstacles at low altitude by giving it TOGA and pulling the joystick aft?"

And even though its not an issue anymore, thats not the point - people who DIDN'T HAVE TO die, died!
if airbus would have thought long and hard about choosing their philosophy where pilot has to work with the computer, vs one where computer works with a pilot, no lives would be lost in that accident.

I'm sure you are aware of the fact that this is not the only airbus accident where airbus' philosophy contributed or caused people injuries and deaths.

- new zealand 888t
- air intern 148
- air france 447
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kERSSRJant0
another opinion from an airbus captain on air france accident.
- A320 crash in Sochi
- TAM 3054
- QANTAS 71
qantas 71 and incidents similar to it (there were several) were the ONLY ones where AIRBUS couldn't do anything about shifting the blame on pilots, though i def. can't say they didn't try, and ITS PHILOSOPHY WAS OFFICIALLY FOUND TO BE AT FAULT.("design limitation in the flight control primary computer (FCPC) software" wikipedia)

[vapilot2004]

I thought this was a discussion on the relative merits of the A320 v B737 from a numbers perspective.

Perhaps a separate thread would be helpful for polite talk about automation philosophy. :8

[Piltdown Man]

It's a good question raised by the OP and the answer gas been nodded at. The reality is that airlines take into account availability, money, support, spares, training, leasing costs etc. before deciding. These vary from airline to airline and from country to country and they depend on where you are starting from. Manufacturers may also provide individual performance guarantees, like round-trip fuel, no de-icing due to cold soak, runway performance etc. Not surprisingly, pilots rarely make these decisions (too many idiots amongst their ranks, as can be witnessed from reading some replies to various threads). It's the job of the sales guys to help the buyers do the sums - in the process helping their own product to appear to be better value for money. In times past apparently some of these discussions took place in establishments of "ill repute" and others write the reasons why their products should be chosen on notes inside brown envelopes full of cash.

These decisions can take a long period of time because rarely do you change aircraft type more often than once every eight to ten years. Getting it wrong can be very expensive.

PM

[5LY]

Drizzleengine: I'd suggest that any conventional a/c put in the same low energy state at less than 100 feet would have most likely rolled over gone in inverted during the recovery. The same engines as were on the Bus would not have spooled up any quicker on a different frame.


I've flown both Busses and Boeings and am partial to Boeings, but you can't make up nonsense to support a weak argument.

[Mr Oleo Strut]

If I were a Boeing 737 salesman, I would try to sell you the Boeing 737-800 in comparison to the A320 because that is my job, regardless of all other considerations. Claimed unique selling points and technical comparisons between aircraft types are all readily available to prospective purchasers these days, long before I arrive with my box of sweeties, samples, and smooth talk. Prices, I suspect, are a different matter and depend entirely on head-office wheeling and dealing in which I am not involved. My role as an (alleged) salesmen is to toe the party line and carry messages - much like a humble Zulu spear-carrier in the old days. And heaven help me if I get the message wrong!

At the end of the the day it is passengers and freight companies who pay for the aircraft they prefer and their requirements are pretty much standard, hence the similarity and blandness of modern aircraft (and motor vehicles, for that matter). Within those constraints, aircraft manufacturers charge clients whatever they can get away with and their clients pay as little as they can. Its a big bazaar, and pilots are just hired hands driving all those air buses, vans and lorries. Sad for all you commercial aviators after years of expensive training, but that's the way it is. Yours is the responsibility without the power. Whether a Boeing flying grommet is better than its Airbus equivalent is irrelevant to me, the salesman, so long as people buy my company's stuff. But I write only from the perspective of an aviation user, so what do I know!

[springbok449]

Having flown both types in a "Low Cost" environment a few years back, the Airbus wins without a shadow of a doubt. I flew the Classc 73 as well as the NG btw.

To OPERATE, the Airbus flightdeck, is quieter more spacious and more comfortable, it makes for a much less tiring day out...

To FLY then it has to be the Boeing, I am glad I started on it, it gave me some invaluable experience and handling skills...

[mikemnh]

This thread aged well…..