baby on board

[tomboo]

I have 4 month old boy, when is a good time to introduce him to the high life?

I assume I just put the car seat in the plane next to the wife!!??

[India Four Two]

tomboo,

You're a month late. Took my daughter in a 172 at three months. Car seat strapped in the back (in an age where people looked at you funnily if you had a car seat for your kids). She slept the whole way and then dozed most of the day at our destination gliding field, where the wind rocked the wings. :)

[gaxan]

I flew my daughter aged three months ina Pa 28, Henlow to Huddersfield slept all the way! Some years later, aged 5 flew her in the Queen Bee for a quick circuit at Woburn - fell asleep again !!

[gemma10]

And dont forget the sticker on the rear or side window. :}

[PompeyPaul]

I didn't want to take my son flying until he could safely open the door and exit the plane himself. I was thinking 4 or 5 years old. 3 months?!?

[HPMan]

My youngest first flew when he was 8 weeks old. He was strapped in to his car seat in the rear of a PA28, sat next to my wife. With ear protection on and the engine started he was almost immediately asleep.

The only problem now is getting him out of aircraft .... :ok:

[ChickenHouse]

Took our youngest up flying when he was six weeks, but we had a FAA approved kids seat and a special helmet-ANR-construction from my best half life as a helicopter paramedics.

[Chase_BHX]

On a recent course met a balloon pilot who did the ballon inflation in the hospital car park and flew their offspring home.

Chris

[abgd]

I'm with PompeyPaul on this:

flying is about as dangerous as motorcycling and I wouldn't fly with my son unless

a) I was a lot more experienced and had to fly for some reason e.g. a farmer with a cub and a vast remote farm in Kenya whom I know of or

b) he was old enough to really enjoy it, and ideally to look after himself to some extent in case of an accident. And ideally with his mother.

I keep thinking of Neil Williams (the aerobatic pilot) who wiped out his whole family flying an IMC approach. Perhaps it's maudlin but I prefer flying by myself or with some rather lonely middle-aged friends whom I like very much but who have no close ties.

The contentedness I currently feel as a father and partner was very hard-won. It isn't an easy thing to find in life. I'm sure my partner feels that way about my son and myself also. I've met parents who've accidentally killed their children and it's not something I want to put myself, my son or my partner through.

I remember one of the paragliding magazines had a photo of a man taking his 6 month old flying in a tummy harness. One of the responses in the article consisted of the single word, 'why?'

[YODI]

I have 2 daughters, 6 and 8.

Last year My eldest flew with me and a friend in an EC120 but we agreed with the wife years ago we wouldn't all get in a PA28 with me flying and all of us in it at the same time.

[PA28181]

Took my kids once, never again, the flight had a different feel to it. One I didn't like, so never did it again.

[Fishtailed]

I'll bet the last three posters take the familly out in the car without worrying.
5 POB to the Isle of Man in a 172 was a grand day out.

[F4TCT]

The first time my daughter flew was when infact she was a fetus at around 9 weeks.

However she and the partner also went up with me for my CPL cross country flights (when she was around 15 months old). Strapped her in her car seat and then put the lap belt over the entire seat in the PA28. Worked really well..

http://s16.postimg.org/mcobkc8bp/20140408_111427.jpg

Dan

[Jan Olieslagers]

we had a FAA approved kids seat and a special helmet-ANR-construction from my best half life as a helicopter paramedics.

Could you share details please? What child's seat and which ANR headset concoction?

For the rest it strikes me that many report what they did and how well it went, but as yet I saw no report of anything going wrong, and how. Yet there must be such stories. I would (emotionally) love to take my grandsons up but feel (brainwise) very hesitant.

[abgd]

I'll bet the last three posters take the family out in the car without worrying.
Actually no - I don't have a car. Anyway, a better comparison would be whether you'd take your kids out on the back of your motorbike - the risks are roughly comparable i.e. an order of magnitude greater than driving. And why shouldn't I worry about driving anyway - he's more likely to die in a car accident than for any other reason.

I did take my little boy in the plane on Sunday. We taxied around the apron and he took care of the yoke entirely by himself. He didn't realise I was actually steering with the foot pedals and I suspect he might actually think we went flying - he's too short to see out of the window after all. He thought it was fantastic.

I will take him up at some point "Daddy take me in aeroplane! Take off! Fly!" but after he's big enough to see out of the window, for a start.

[funfly]

I don't actually see the point of it anyway.

Why ever would you want to take a small baby up for a joyride in a GA aircraft.

[Fishtailed]

abgd,
The problem with taking one of the lads on the bike was just that, only one at once, ( which I did, like my dad did with me), in the plane we could have a day out as a family. You're right about steering while taxying, the one in the RHS always thought he was doing it, great fun.

[EDMJ]

I keep thinking of Neil Williams (the aerobatic pilot) who wiped out his whole family flying an IMC approach.

While I can echo some your sentiments, I think you are getting carried away a bit with this statement. Neil Williams flew a CASA 2.111 into a mountain in IMC, with his wife and two other passengers (not family) on board. Not quite the same, I think?

I can't really see the point in bringing children along in small aircraft who are so young that they don't realise what is going on. It's noisy (or an unfamiliar headset has to be worn), can be bumpy and in many aircraft they would be struggling to be able to look out the window.

Another issue is the seat belts. I've lost count of how many times I've seen children being placed in the right seat in a Cessna with no booster cushion or anything, and the shoulder belt strapped right across their throat, ready to kill them in an accident. Nobody would think of transporting their child in a car with such a seat belt.

[JOSHUA]

Why ever would you want to take a small baby up for a joyride in a GA aircraft

Possibly because it would leave them with one of their fondest ever childhood memories, as happened to me when my now deceased grandfather took me with him in a c172 when I was 6years old - it was my first ever flying experience and I remember it fondly.

I took my 4yr old daughter flying for the first time a few weeks ago, she now wants to fly with me every time I go!

I'm aware of the risks (I fly for a living), but I take calculated risk, which to be fair is what we all do as we go about our everyday lives. I want my children to share in my own great life experiences.

I must admit though, I haven't taken my younger son flying yet, mainly because he is still far less independent than my daughter and additionally is still not of an age where he easily takes instruction ie keep quiet whilst on the rt. distraction management is definitely very important if you're to fly with young children on board.

[JOSHUA]

Have just reread the quote - and actually small baby is quite different to small child. I wouldn't take a small baby unless another adult was on board and we had good reason to be going somewhere

[abgd]

Neil Williams flew a CASA 2.111 into a mountain in IMC, with his wife and two other passengers (not family) on board. Not quite the same, I think?

I see you're quite correct about Neil Williams - I must be misremembering somebody else's story.

[BEagle]

tomboo, do what you like in a private aircraft....

But anything less than about 6 years old, if travelling in an airliner, should be secured in a soundproof, leakproof container somewhere in the cargo area....

There's nothing worse than lazy parents indulging some yowling brat for hours on end in an aircraft!

[thing]

There's nothing worse than lazy parents indulging some yowling brat for hours on end in an aircraft!

Best riposte to an annoying child on an aircraft I've heard is 'Go and ask your mummy if you can play outside.'

[India Four Two]

I wouldn't take a small baby unless another adult was on board and we had good reason to be going somewhere

Precisely. That's why my wife and I did it. We needed to be somewhere and couldn't leave our daughter at home. It wasn't a joy ride.

[abgd]

But anything less than about 6 years old, if travelling in an airliner, should be secured in a soundproof, leakproof container somewhere in the cargo area....

I'd have to take issue with that. Have flown on airliners a fair amount with my son as his mum is a freelance musician and he's still breastfeeding. Also a trip to Australia to meet ailing grandparents for the first time. He's fairly relaxed about it - but 40 hours door to door for the Australia trip and I think any toddler can be excused a tantrum or two.

Not necessarily much fun for anyone, parents or bystanders, but part of that live-and-let-live thing.

German trains often have parent-and-child compartments which I like, but can't see as being practical on airliners.

[Piper.Classique]

When traveling with my dog, he gets a cage in the heated hold, he can lie down, stand up, bark if he wants to.
I get the seat next to the fat man who eats raw garlic, with the child behind me who kicks the seat back. Usually on the flight where the toilets back up. I would rather be with my dog...

Seriously though, you should give the child ear defenders, hearing damage is never a good thing.

[mary meagher]

Most of you replying on this question are MEN so very few replies from mothers. - I have 4 children, and 18 grandchildren and 3 great grandchildren.l

I have taken my grandchildren for a ride in a Cessna 152 when they were old enough, NO SOONER. And old enough is old enough to take the controls themselves, say 11 or 12 years old.

Also, how many hours of experience do you have in the air? maybe 300? how many hours of experience driving a car? I've been driving constantly since l950.

Before I took any family up, I had over 800 hours, and an IR, and had experienced all sorts of conditions.

As for younger brats, NO WAY! You men are quite simply wanting to impress the kid. Usually a ride in a small plane will make a child BORED and SICK.
What is the last time you had to clean up the puke? happens quite suddenly.

I think taking your whole family in your fancy twin on holiday is asking for a really horrible time, not even taking into consideration its a bit riskier than driving. Kid needs to use the toilet? Are we there yet? are we there yet......pressure on the PILOT, Daddy, to make bad decisions if weather is dodgy.

In the car you can stop any time, frequently, unless you are stuck on the M40. And your entertainment for the brats is often built in.

Come on blokes, grow up. And wait for the kid to grow up enough to appreciate the experience.

[BEagle]

abgd wrote: He's fairly relaxed about it - but 40 hours door to door for the Australia trip and I think any toddler can be excused a tantrum or two.

Not necessarily much fun for anyone, parents or bystanders, but part of that live-and-let-live thing.

He might be 'fairly relaxed' about it, but what entitles you to expect 'bystanders' to excuse a toddler's 'tantrum or two' in the close confines of an airliner?

There used to be an expression "Too young to travel" - meaning that parents kept their spawn behind doors until they could be trusted to behave properly. Yet nowadays, serial brat-breeders seem to expect everyone to tolerate any antics of their offspring.

Children should be seen, but not heard!

[YODI]

Children should be seen but not heard, are you kidding me? Are you a parent?

I took my 2 young kids to Antigua, once or twice they cried etc but we were on it immediately to quiten them down, make them happy etc which is very different compared to my flight home from Greece (again with 2 kids 4 & 6 then) last year where 2 kids were crying, misbehaving, throwing things etc and the parents did nothing about it to the point lots of pax complained.

As for you Mary Meagher, I agree with what most of what you said, I dont take my kids in Pa28, Im a 120 hour ppl and other than a quick flight with the eldest I wouldn't chance it, but there are ways to say things, just because some of the people on this thread decide it's ok to crry their toddler at 3 months it's up to them. PS. To the question earlier about taking them in my car well yes, obviously. I've been driving since jan 97 and the amount of miles I've done would be comparable to a 10,000 pilot in hour terms, each to there own though.

[mary meagher]

Yodi, you've been there, that's clear, and you are a thoughtful Dad.

BUT I hate to read accident reports when families are involved.

Do ANY women look at PPRuNe? not a lot. And how many of the comments on this subject and thread are women/mothers????

[tmmorris]

BEagle,

Calm down, dear, you'll spill your gin...

[abgd]

He might be 'fairly relaxed' about it, but what entitles you to expect 'bystanders' to excuse a toddler's 'tantrum or two' in the close confines of an airliner?

The fact that I would (have been; will be) happy to put up with it myself in situations where I'm the 'bystander'. If crying toddlers is all you have to worry about in life, you're a lucky person.

There is behaviour that parents shouldn't put up with, obviously.

[BEagle]

There is behaviour that parents shouldn't put up with, obviously.

Wrong. There are aspects of the behaviour of their spawn which parents should darn well know are completely unacceptable to others.

Unless or until you can reasonably control your rugrat, keep it at home!

Some years ago a doting parent left offspring unattended in the local flying club. When I next visited, I discovered that every wall had been scrawled upon with chalk / pencil marks caused by the little $od. But as I was in charge, I wrote in the newsletter that, henceforth, any irritating unattended kids would be shackled to the radio tower outside until their keepers returned. On the first occasion, to the base of the tower and on any subsequent occasion, at the top.....

[abgd]

But I wouldn't disagree with you on that. You can pretty much stop a small child from drawing on the walls by staying with it all the time to supervise it. There's no excuse not to.

You can keep a small child quiet 90% of the time by reading, feeding, talking through all the pictures on the camera and so on... but if they decide they want to scream and yell there's not much you can do... They don't allow Laudanum on international flights.

My then 18 month old son and his Australian grandparents were lucky enough to meet at a point when he was just old enough to enjoy the experience and his grandfather was fit enough to go to the beach with him and on trips to the national park to see 'guroos'. Next time he goes, I fear his grandfather won't be able to make it out of the house. His granny's not getting younger either. I think it would have been wrong to deprive any of them of the experience.

[India Four Two]

Here's WestJet's solution to the problem:

M4SkoJy3D0M

[JOSHUA]

Mary Meagher:
Also, how many hours of experience do you have in the air? maybe 300? how many hours of experience driving a car? I've been driving constantly since l950.

TT 8000hrs

[QUOTE]Come on blokes, grow up. And wait for the kid to grow up enough to appreciate the experience./QUOTE]

Please re-read my previous post about my first flight experience as a CHILD (6yrs old) with my grandfather, inspiring and perhaps one of the most happy memories of my childhood with my grandfather. IF I can even come close to recreating such memories with my children then tiny risk is worth it.

[QUOTE]Do ANY women look at PPRuNe? not a lot. And how many of the comments on this subject and thread are women/mothers????/QUOTE]

Why should that have anything to do with it? Are men somehow less capable of assessing risk for there own children or are somehow less nurturing?

[FleetFlyer]

My father flew me as a baby in a Cherokee. I don't remember it at all, but I've been obsessed with flying since the age of 5. He did the same with my sister and she screamed so loudly he elected not to take off.

I now have a baby son, and due to aviation induced mild hearing damage to my ears, I won't be flying him until he's six or seven. The last thing I would want for him is a lifetime of tinitus, so I'll metering his exposure carefully.

I'd also like to say I think Mary is dead right, and the way to take that Baron full of kids&wife on holiday is with a safety pilot doing most of it for you. It may not be the independence you dreamed of, but at least you'll live long enough remember the whole of the trip.