Lydd purchases Manston Radar?.....

[Andy Mayes]

...according to rumours.

Anyone know if there is any truth in this?

Lydd are also rumoured to have purchased the ILS from Manston.

[chevvron]

Lydd already have a fairly recent ILS on 21 albeit with an offset localiser.(Don't think there's anywhere they could put an in line localiser)
Thinks: could this mean MC is transferring to Lydd?(no not Southend you d/head, the controller MC!!)

[Andy Mayes]

ILS is on 21 at Lydd.

The rumour is that the ex-MH ILS would go on 03 but would this be possible with the power station? Is the power station even there/operating?

[Andy Mayes]

Thinks: could this mean MC is transferring to Lydd?(no not Southend you d/head, the controller MC!!)

D/head?
MC?

Huh?

:confused:

[chevvron]

Google maps would indicate that Dungeness Nuclear Power Station shouldn't affect iaps to runway 03 and there seems to be room for an in-line localiser. There might be a problem with the Army Ranges though.
MC was a controller at Dunsfold - and they closed. He moved to Manston - now they'vre closed.

[ZOOKER]

Did my NATS PPL at Lydd in 1980. Call-sign was 'Ferryfield Approach', (120.8?). :ok:

[NorthSouth]

No reason why you couldn't physically accommodate an ILS for rw 03 at Lydd but it would only be usable a few days a year because of the Lydd Range D044, so not worth the cost of installation and maintenance. That's why they put in an RNAV approach to 03 five years ago. No infrastructure costs.

As to buying Manston's radar, they ought to be cheeky and offer Madame Gloat oops sorry Gloag a quid for it. But it would be a big burden on Lydd - radar-rated ATCOs plus ongoing engineering and safety management costs, at an airfield where 90+% of the traffic's VFR and doesn't need radar.

NS

[vulcanised]

Maybe I'm mistaken but I got the impression that Manston Radar is rather more significant than providing a single service for Manston itself?

If so, then it could be a good move for Lydd.

[chevvron]

Many years ago, the radar at RAF Manston was used by the RAF for approach control work, and by NATS Controllers using the callsign 'Kent Radar' operating in a 'Special Rules Zone' which covered mainland Kent and part of the cross channel routes. This all finished long before the MOD sold Manston. After the sale, Manston was a LARS unit although they may have had Letters of Agreement to provide services to other local airfields.
I believe Lydd had radar in the late 60s/early 70s but it was only a 424, suitable for SRAs and nothing else. (I could be getting it mixed up with Lympne though!!)

[Talkdownman]

Both Lydd (Ferryfield) and Lympne had radar in '64: Ferryfield Radar 131.3, Ferryfield Director 120.5, Lympne Radar 130.3. Yes, Lydd was equipped with Decca 424. Here's a pictureof Lydd Radar in 1954. (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1954/1954%20-%202831.html)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Mr D Cooper, shewn in the bottom left picture, was my first boss at Blackbushe in 1966! He used to live in Eversley and I drive past his house almost daily.

[TCAS FAN]

Aahh Dennis Cooper! Don't know how he got on at Blackbushe, during his sojourn at Southampton in the late 60s he absolutely hated GA. In the days before MATS Part 1 came up with Flight Priorities, according to Dennis it was scheduled services that had priority and GA came a very poor second.

I, as the 21 year old upstart, with a still wet licence, and a validation to achieve, had many meaningful discussions on "first come, first served" rather than his "I have a scheduled movement in 10 minutes, you'll have to stay on the ground". Payback time came after I validated and refused to break-off a PA 23 while doing an SRA, with a HP7 12 miles behind. That hit the spot, he went into orbit (rather than the HP7), so easy to wind him up thereafter.

Leopilot anything more to add?

Sorry chaps for going off thread, it probably will not be many years before the old memory starts erasing the fun bits of ATC.

[chevvron]

I see Lydd had a manual D/F too (that funnel shaped thing with a wheel around it.)

[NorthSouth]

Going back to the rumoured purchase, for an airfield like Lydd, even if they provided LARS, radar would be more of a curse than a blessing. You'd be paying radar controllers to spend their whole time giving a Basic Service to hundreds of VFR transits while having virtually no IFR traffic of your own to justify having the radar.

Then again, it didn't stop the owners spending many millions on a runway/terminal upgrade that'll never be used, so expect to see that shiny new radar any time soon.

NS

[soaringhigh650]

You'd be paying radar controllers to spend their whole time giving a Basic Service

Why would anyone ask for a non-radar service from a radar controller?

:ugh:

[Talkdownman]

Why would anyone ask for a non-radar service from a radar controller?
I concur...

[DC10RealMan]

Why would you ask for a Basic Service from Lydd when flying across the Channel when you already have London Information providing a First Class service.

[Eric T Cartman]

Why would anyone ask for a non-radar service from a radar controller?
I think you misunderstand NorthSouth's point. He didn't say anything about 'asking' for a service. He said they would be providing a Basic service, which is what you'll get if you're not using anything else.
As an example, if you talk to Prestwick on 119.85, you will be talking to a radar controller whatever service you are getting.
I can recall numerous occasions, notably with low level miltary a/c, when anything other than a Basic Service was declined - but I was still a radar controller being paid as such, even if the radar was u/s .......

[chevvron]

DC10RealMan: as you are well aware, London Info does not identify traffic on radar and it is far better to have someone 'watching' you as you cross a long stretch of water just in case.
Although LYD - LFAT is outside the official boundary of Farnborough East, I always offered pilots the choice of staying with me for the crossing as I could see them until just past the FIR boundary and with the press of one button I could alert D & D if anything happened.

[soaringhigh650]

He said they would be providing a Basic service, which is what you'll get if you're not using anything else.

If I were talking to a controller with radar then I would want the best service. I wouldn't tell him not to use it and not tell me about traffic, etc.

Although LYD - LFAT is outside the official boundary of Farnborough East, I always offered pilots the choice of staying with me for the crossing as I could see them until just past the FIR boundary and with the press of one button I could alert D & D if anything happened.


That's very nice. You clearly ain't busy with your own traffic inside your area. ;)

[chevvron]

Depending on workload, but I found it no problem to keep an eye on these people as well as other traffic inside the 'official' area of operation. You could have as many as (say) 20 on frequency and not be busy, but also with only 2 or 3 on you could be busy especially if they're infringing.

[soaringhigh650]

20 aircraft and not be busy? And you can stop them from colliding with each other? Wow...!!

[chevvron]

If you're not an experienced ATCO you wouldn't understand. Suffice to say the actual area of sky covered by Farnborough East (and North for that matter) is quite big for VFR traffic so 20 aircraft could each be in their own little bit of sky well clear of all the others.