Aviation Accident investigator

[gordonquinn]

Could someone point me towards somewhere I could learn more about the state of play in this kind of career?

Maybe I've been watching too much nat geo, but I've got my NPPL and have been working as an investigator for a car insurance company for a while, and I think I would like to look into a career in investigations in aviation accidents/incidents.
Do you need an ATPL for such a role? Is it something limited to former pilots?

[777AV8R]

A start is to contact the good folks at Cranfield University.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The vast majority of investigators are either professionally qualified pilots: most usually an ATPL, or Chartered Engineers. A few are both.

Cranfield do offer highly regarded specialist training in air accident investigation, but it is generally attended by people who are already highly experienced aviation professionals.

I may be misjudging, but I think that air accident investigation is much closer to academic research with the objective of creating recommendations about avoiding future accidents than road accident investigation, which I believe is much more about proportioning liability.

[NutLoose]

See

Air Accidents Investigation: Organisation (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/about_us/organisation.cfm)

[Piltdown Man]

I believe the pinnacle of investigation has to be within the AAIB, in any if the roles. Second best is working as an investigator for an airline. But don't be deluded into thinking that you kick over a bit of bent metal to find the broken rivet that caused the prang. Most of your time will be reading very boring manuals, writing, re-writing, editing bits of text to make them readable. The rest of your time will be spent waiting for every bugger on the earth to get back to you with the information you need to move your investigation on.

So if you are into administration and you have an organised mind, this is a job for you.

[Genghis the Engineer]

There are also people within the universities who spend their lives doing basic research into safety, which is generally built upon accident investigation, and also often consult on accident outcomes.

Pretty much all of them will have a first degree in aerospace engineering, a PPL or CPL, and a PhD in some aspect of aviation safety. They invariably work across the community, including with obvious big players such as AAIB or major airliners.

Obvious names if you want to look them up online (Universities are good for that) would be Prof Graham Braithwaite at Cranfield, Dr Mike Bromfield at Coventry, Dr. Guy Gratton at Brunel, Dr. Stewart Houston at Glasgow.

Both are of course very small and elite pools and whether an AAIB inspector or tenured academic in the field, these chaps have taken a lot of years of study and experience to get there - it's not an early career job, nor one many people will ever achieve.

[Geosync]

You should consider working for an aviation insurance company in claims. I'm in this industry and I do perform investigations for the company. It's not a requirement to be a commercial pilot, but most in the field are. I have my FAA commercial ratings as well as my mechanic certificates and that knowledge helps a lot when trying to figure out why an aircraft crashed the way it did. Now, it's not all crashes, mostly it's trying to get planes fixed when they get damaged which means working with repair facilities to adjust losses and knowing who's who and what's what in the biz. Check out independent contractors like Charles Taylor and Air Claims as well as local aviation insurance companies that have in house claims departments.

[1jz]

To add up to it.. What maintenance courses would you advice to somebody who already has a CPL to help him understand the accidents or incidents?

[Genghis the Engineer]

To add up to it.. What maintenance courses would you advice to somebody who already has a CPL to help him understand the accidents or incidents?

I'd have thought that a suitable MSc somewhere like Cranfield or Embry-Riddle would be more useful. Maintenance issues should be investigated by chartered or incorporated engineers working with licenced engineers who live and breath maintenance issues, but a CPL could back their aviation knowledge up well with a specialist MSc or even a PhD.

Althought LfaJ is quite right - no substitute for professional experience (although I'd argue that the best people have both that, and a solid academic background.)

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think it's probably a bit like raising children. I don't have any myself. I have, however, read a good few books about handling the little monsters. But whenever I get left with a child or two from other branches of the family, the little beggars run rings around me!

+1

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[Flying Lawyer]

In my former professional life I had extensive dealings with air accident investigations. The common theme amongst AAIB and NTSB investigators, and the independents (who sometimes call themselves 'consultants') was extensive practical experience.
The posts by Genghis made me wonder if things might have changed since I changed jobs in 2007 but it appears that they haven't.

AAIB Inspectors:These staff fall into one of three categories and are listed with their typical eligibility requirements:

Operations Inspector - must hold a current Airline Transport Pilots Licence with a valid Class I medical certificate. Able to offer appropriate command experience on fixed wing aircraft or helicopters. Broad based knowledge of aviation.

Engineering Inspector - must hold an Engineering degree and/or be a Chartered Engineer and have extensive professional aviation engineering experience. Knowledge and experience of modern aircraft systems is an advantage, as is possession of a Pilot's licence or some experience as a pilot.

Flight Recorder Inspector - must hold a degree in electronics/electrical engineering or an aeronautical engineering related subject and/or is a chartered member of a relevant engineering institute. Extensive knowledge and experience of modern avionics is required and knowledge of aircraft performance and broad-based professional aviation engineering experience is an advantage.

NTSB Aircraft Accident InvestigatorTypical Requirements and/or Experience

Entry level accident investigator positions are difficult to get into. Investigative experience as an insurance adjuster or piloting a plane in law enforcement is helpful.

Entry Level or trainees typically must have one year of specialized experience demonstrating knowledge of civilian aircraft design, manufacture and maintenance operations or civilian aircraft operational requirements, practices and procedures. This experience may include work as a pilot for scheduled air carrier, A&P Mechanic or certified flight instructor.

Possession of a valid commercial pilot certificate with instrument rating.
Possession of a current first or second class Airman's Medical Certificate.

Genghis..... a CPL could back their aviation knowledge up well with a specialist MSc or even a PhD.They could, but it isn't necessary and, arguably, their time would be better spent gaining practical experience in relevant fields. I doubt if many (if any) investigators with whom I worked had an MSc, and I can't remember any with a PhD. As can be seen from the AAIB eligibility requirements, the first category doesn't require a degree and the next two require only a first degree.

I may be misjudging, but I think that air accident investigation is much closer to academic research I think you are.
LFAJ and Geosync are IMHO spot on. :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm not sure we're actually disagreeing on anything FL - and clearly we've both worked extensively with AAIB, albeit in somewhat different roles.

Basically any investigator at that level needs to be professionally qualified, have a healthy mixture of academic training and professional experience.

However, the world - including aviation - is shifting subtly towards a preference for people with higher educational qualifications. For the last 10 years it's become almost impossible to qualify as a Chartered Engineer (and certainly most AAIB engineering inspectors I've worked with hold that qualification) without a masters degree.

Whilst I've not met anybody at AAIB with a PhD either (although they certainly use many external people who do), it is a basic qualification in conducting complex research projects, and somebody who has done a PhD in aerospace engineering certainly has developed useful skills applicable to air accident investigation, even if those skills can also be obtained in other ways.

On the other hand I can't think of anybody I've worked with in the university sector doing aviation safety research who didn't have a PhD.



Basically then - have the right professional qualifications in your field (ATPL, CEng or PhD), and a lot of high quality experience. Anything else is a bonus.

[lomapaseo]

When I interviewed propestctive employees for on-the-job training, I would place random photos in front of them and ask them to comment on what they saw. I didn't care if they knew what was behind the photo, but only if they began to muse over the possibilities of what might the photo mean.

A lack of curiosity or ability to sort out an action plan would not get you hired.

I didn't care if you were a pilot or degreed engineer, but did expect some mechanical aptitude

[Genghis the Engineer]

Good call lompaseo, I used to do something very similar recruiting research students - although in my case I usually used oddball aircraft models.