J32 Reliability

[Horatio Leafblower]

Just poking around the interwebs and a young fella of faint acquaintance has made the following statement:

"(The J32 is)...larger than a Kingair and cheaper than ... a metro or beech 1900 with higher dispatch reliability"

Discuss :uhoh:

[BPA]

Larger than a Kingair, yes, one has 9-11 seats and the other has 19.

Cheaper, yes.

Dispatch reliability, about the same as the Metro, but no where near has reliable as the Kingair or 1900.

[onehitwonder]

I would have to agree. In a class of their own.
As much as they are an older machine they were built like a brick

[onehitwonder]

I would have to tend to agree. The Jetstreams as much as an old machine were always built like a brick, particularly the 41.

[yr right]

An aircraft is only as reliable as the work that goes into it. Don't look after it it will break. How ever in saying that give me a B1900 ant day it will be a better aircraft than anything else you can buy in its class.


Cheers

[Skystar320]

The B1900D is an awesome machines, but without deep pockets and RPT that pays for it don't bother!

On a hindsight B1900D leases for US$40k a month and a BAe 32EP $20k a month.

Do the maths...

But 1900 can take more out of Australia climate than the BAe 32's even if they are phase 4's

[Horatio Leafblower]

The size comparison is a "no brainer" as the young people say - of course a 19-seat aircraft is bigger than a 10/12 seat aircraft :ugh:

I have seen an Email from a Charter operator offering the J32 out at $2800 per hour, with an opening to go lower "to close the (price) gap on a KingAir". This then would affect what YrRight says:

An aircraft is only as reliable as the work that goes into it. Don't look after it it will break.

I also wonder at these guys operating J32s in QLD when to my knowledge they have always been operated in the southern states, and were seriously payload limited 3-4 months of the year even then.

If your charter client is paying $2800-3200 per hour for 19 seats, how happy will they be about only having 15 seats for 6 months of the year?

:confused:

I only have a few hours on the J32 and it is a really nice, robust little airliner but from observation (thankfully at a safe distance :E ) the wheels fall off whenever it rains. :rolleyes:

[yr right]

Can just about have any part for a 1900 any where in aust in 24 hours mmm the other we'll

If you won't reliability can go past a 1900 just a shame they no longer make them.

[onehitwonder]

How often are you going to utilize the full 19 seats? Maybe short sectors yes but how about those long haul runs.

Comparing it to a King Air in this case, how often could you take a full ship (11 pax + bags) 600nm - simple, never.

As for the Jetstream one would think perfect if you have 11+ pax + bags.

Perhaps there is logic behind it - good luck to them. More flying for us!

[BPA]

Hot and High with runways less than 1800 will always be a problem for the J32. Up the front they are far better than the Metro and the 1900 with more of an airliner flight deck rather than a GA machine.

Although the J32's cabin is big (wide), it's shape is a problem as the pax sitting next to the windows have the legs pushed towards the centre or the other pax. Also the rear compartment is small and a pain to load as you have to use the sane door as the passengers. Yes it as the centre pod, but once again its location and size doesn't work for large bulky items.

Given a choice out of the Metro, 1900C, 1900D and the J32 and if money wasn't an issue and from a pilot and best for the job point of view (including pax comfort) my preferences would be:

1. 1900D
2. 1900C
3. J32
4. Metro

If I was a bean counter than it would be;

1. Metro
2. J32
3. 1900C
4. 1900D

[Defenestrator]

Flight West operated a couple in North QLD. Not sure how they went though. Replaced King Airs on the milk run to Mt Isa.

D

[yr right]

Pt6 sucks a little more fuel but in saying that reliability and ease of a service time on wing much better engine

[Skystar320]

If anything with Flight West obviously they went the right way.

Same as replacing the Dash 8-100 with Embraer EMB120 aircraft for its milk runs cause it was faster and the crew didn't run out of hours.

[Horatio Leafblower]

A mate of mine used to fly B1900Ds for Impulse.

They were operating in/out of Cooma alongside J31s from Eastern, and both aircraft would regularly have big loads (compare that to efforts these days? One for another thread maybe). The Eastern Jetstreams would regularly have to offload pax or baggage for balance however.

One day the Captain of the Eastern J31 stormed over to the B1900 and launched into a rant about how Impulse was overloading the aircraft, must be out of balance, etc, and he would be reporting them to CASA.

They just smiled, kept loading, and never heard anything more of it :E

[Skystar320]

Horatio Leafblower

Your comparing a J31 to a B1900D. The thread is a J32. Which obvious is an inferior product than a J31.

Just to show we are on the same page :)

[Howard Hughes]

Comparing it to a King Air in this case, how often could you take a full ship (11 pax + bags) 600nm - simple, never
B350 = Plenty of seats and plenty of fuel! :ok:

2500 lb payload with enough fuel for 2-3 hours + reserves @270+ knots.

[Grogmonster]

HH,

B200 & B350. Single Pilot. Both will eat a 600 mile trip with 11 POB. A J32 with 2 pilots at $2800 per hour. Broke in 6 months. :D

Groggy

[holdingagain]

We loved the J31 / 32 / 41, they were for ever in strife in Qld

Performance limited, too hot, too heavy, out of balance, couldn't carry the gas, no water meth available or simply broken down

One classic ex Moranbah / BN the J32 couldn't carry the load ( about 9 ), we had a few empty seats so we topped up the King Air 350 with the mining execs who had a international flight to connect with and had them in BN 90 minutes later. The J32 went via Rocky for fuel with the left over pax. Pax on both aircraft were from the same company and the flight was organised by a broker who had the top execs in the modern airline style J32. The top execs were regular paxs on the 350 from then on. Where is the modern J32 now, gone but hey its about to be replaced ( different operator ) with a modern airline style J32, whacko. But its all too late, in coal its tough at present and the Dash 400's rule supreme in Qld.

[Skystar320]

dotell - that's a J31... were on about the J32.

[Propstop]

The Tasair one had been sitting for a while and had several electrical glitches as well as several others. Once these were fixed and it was flown a lot more it became more reliable. It was an expensive aircraft to operate.
As it was a heavy aircraft and had one medium size mainwheel, the NDT HAD to be done every tyre change or a bit of the flange would let go, as it did when the ops first started.
It was built like an airliner and did have some good features, but the negatives outweighed them and the aircraft became an unloved orphan.

[Howard Hughes]

Having considerable experience on J32 and B350, I'd pick B350 every time for hot weather operations. Able to fill the seats, baggage and more than enough fuel for the size of your bladder.

The J32 is great in cold weather with 19 people, but only good for about 200NM with that load. Once the temperature gets above 30 you are leaving bags behind. If it involves FIFO miners I couldn't see you carrying more than 11 in J32 anyway, especially if you expected to do 600NM.

Of course the big disparity here is acquisition cost, for the same reason someone would choose a J32 over a B1900D, but if it's performance and value for money are concerned, you can't beat the Beechcraft(s).:ok:

[V1 rotated]

Nice and cool for the J32 for some regional NSW charters at the moment, perfect machine for cooler weather.

[yr right]

B1900d will beat anything in it's class. It has a well proven airframe and even better engine. Prove in the engine is how many single engine chatter Ifr tpe 331 are there.
Really a sensational aeroplane. That's why they still so costly to lease or buy.
Quite two aircon systems plus beech maintenance program very hard to beat. The others we'll they just imitators at the end of the day.

Cheers

[Horatio Leafblower]

Nice and cool for the J32 for some regional NSW charters at the moment, perfect machine for cooler weather.

The problem is, V1, You have to satisfy clients 12 months of the year to make money 12 months of the year and pay the bills 12 months of the year. :suspect:

[Propstop]

I have had a lot of experience on J31/2 and B1900D in several parts of the world.
In Yemen we had a J32 which operated into an airport at 3500' doing FIFO and bags were very restricted. They did not use W/M out of Aden as the runway was 16,000ft but used it out of Masilla where the runway was relatively short, hot and high. Also J32 in Townsville and J31 Hobart. Their suitability in warm climates was questioned by all of us.
I also looked after, amongst other things, in Africa (9 DHC-6 my undisputed favourite) and 13 B1900D.
The Beech is a good solid aircraft and the engine is great, but they do require a lot of maintenance, and in the conditions under which we operated, we saw some areas which could have been designed a lot better (Nacelle access for one). There are others but will not go on about them.
The aircraft itself was good all round but was let down by less than some professional flight crew. It was job security. Some of the engine trend downloads were shocking and I personally did many HSI as a result.
The J32 electrics were well designed and generally accessible; the B1900D were a nightmare, but, all over the Beech for commuter and freight was the best aircraft and also required marginally less maintenance manhours than the J32.
These days PAC and Caravans are my favourites (even when unfortunately parked in a culvert)