Have you ever sent a mayday?

[mary meagher]

Couple of years ago, on my last check ride before handing in my ticket, the instructor questioned my priorities....my engine had just quit at 1,500 feet, what do you do now?

I said I would pick a field and land in it. He said no, first check for any obvious reason for the failure, fuel? mags, whatever, then transmit a mayday.

How is a mayday going to help me? my priority would be a good choice of field and concentrate on a good arrival.

Has anyone reading this ever sent a mayday? just asking....

[Genghis the Engineer]

Two pans, one should have been a Mayday and was treated as such fortunately.


Why? Because the engine had started rough running, seemed likely to stop, and I was at 300ft just after taking off. So I needed the local emergency services to know, and I needed everybody out of my way.

It worked too.


But in the scenario you outlined - 1500ft - so basically 2 minutes to get everything sorted out, no nearby traffic, and nobody in a position to help me. No, definitely a low priority. I'm not totally convinced I'd waste much time at that height trying to restart the engine either.

G

[Pace]

Mary YES

Flying as a co pilot at night in a Citation from Biggin Hill to Majorca! climbing out through 20,000 feet I looked at the German Captain and thought my eyes had gone funny.
his face was shimmering! Then I smelt it ! Thick acrid smoke which was streaming out of the vents and filling the cabin.
this got worse until you could hardly see the passengers in the back.
The stuff was dense and choking so on with the oxygen masks a mayday and a quick descent back to Biggin Hill.
we vented the Cabin because it was now almost impossible to see and were given a straight line over Gatwick and an uninterrupted descent.
It was pitch black when we landed at Biggin to be met by a group of fire engines.
The PAX were terrified and all my clothes stank of burning plastic.
The fault was found to be a fan motor which caught fire in the air circulation system. All good for the soul :E

I will also add an engine failure in a fairly new Seneca 4 at 300 feet and gross weight! Three rocker shafts sheared and realising if I pulled the prop lever back and stopped the engine I was not going to go anywhere fast but down.

So I kept one hand on the prop lever in case the unit went bang and used the little power from that engine to coax a climb.

Levelling at 800 feet the engine was shaking so badly I had to shut it down made a Mayday call and landed single engine.

Continental insisted the unit had been over boosted on takeoff to shear the rockers shafts like that until a PAX in the back showed a film he had taken of the takeoff with the engine gauges showing they were perfectly set on takeoff.

Continental then discovered the engine rocker shafts had been incorrectly torqued at manufacture and replaced the 100 hr unit with a new one within two weeks.
again all good for the soul :E

Many other instances where maybe I should have but didn't

Pace

[Talkdownman]

Yes. After the forced landing, simply to attract the attention of RFFS.

[piperboy84]

No, but an emergency of a different kind, On an evening flight back from dinner at Fife airport I was told by the other half in no uncertain terms that we had to be home in time for Corrie starting as she had forgot to record it (possible equipment failure) upon reaching our home strip I was advised not to do the usual "buggering about" (overfly the field to view the windsock, fly the pattern etc,) due to the extreme urgency, upon landing it was suggested that there was to be no more "pissing around" (installing vent plugs, pitot cover and chalks) apparently they could wait till the morning.

All ended well with bums on the couch at 7:30 sharp.

[HPMan]

Yes. Started getting a rough running engine which I could not clear so I declared a pan whilst heading for the nearest airfield. The engine then got much worse, to the extent I could not maintain altitude, so I confirmed my field - I had picked one at the outset and then kept a dynamic plan as I headed for the airfield. Once I felt I had everything in hand and had the time I upgraded to a mayday. All ended happily but it quite clearly reinforced the old adage "aviate, navigate, communicate".

I would say the instructor has it wrong: set the conditions for walking away from the aircraft (pick your field and plan your approach and landing), fly your plan, then look to resolve the cause (if you can and have the time) and, finally, tell the outside world.

However, that was just what happened in my case. Your emergency might happen at a greater height where you may have the luxury of time to first try to resolve the cause (restart the engine, perhaps) and a plethora of fields to land in. You might decide therefore to seek a solution to the emergency, communicate and then pick your field. However, I would suggest the need to aviate first and throughout remains the overriding driver.

[18greens]

Maydays are very useful. I wouldn't be scared to use one.

I've had two engine failures (fortunately in the overhead) . As soon as I declared the mayday all other traffic disappeared, I got to choose my approach without the worry of fitting into traffic and the fire truck is there to give you a lift home.

If you need help ask for it. No controller will ever get upset if you call a mayday then need to cancel it.

Where it fits in the priorities at 1500' is a matter of circumstance.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Not a mayday, but on a partial engine failure off a runway with few land-ahead options I simply declared 'partial engine failure, returning to land immediate, 09L'. I couldn't hear the radio (despite the DC headset) due the misfiring engine, so just kept transmitting that in case someone else's transmission was blocking me.

The implied message was 'I'm in the sh1t and coming round for an immediate landing. It's MY runway, everyone else pi55 off'.

It must be added I only ever considered using the radio once I'd established we could (just) maintain height and had got the aeroplane low level close in downwind and stable for a '180 turn onto the numbers from maybe 250 feet' touchdown.

Aviate, navigate, communicate.

Off that same runway many years later another pilot (one I knew) had a total engine failure on take off. he 'communicated' (sent out a mayday) but didn't 'aviate' (i.e get the bleedin' nose down NOW).

He died and his passenger has life changing injuries. I wonder to this day why he pressed the xmit button rather than pushing the yoke forward to prevent the stall/spin that killed him. Not only did he 'stop flying the aeroplane', he did so in order to send a message which could not have been of any use whatsoever.

Maydays are great if you've first got the aeroplane stable (aviate navigate, communicate) and others may not be aware you might need rescuing from a wreck.

[Straighten Up]

Very nearly - even keyed the PTT - before the engine spluttered back to life.

Hour building in CA north east of San Luis heading towards Yosemite there is a range of hills (felt like mountains). At 7500' which must've been 2000agl my engine stopped (c172). I will never forget that noise (or lack of) as long as I fly I'm sure. It's not like when the instructor pulls to idle as you do PFLs but you know it's there and you can still hear it.

First thought was that I needed new trousers. Second was maintain 65kts. Glance at Skydemon for glide range (amazing feature) to see if there were any airfields within range (of course there weren't). Turn downwind and towards lowering ground/valley. Full power, full rich, carb heat, still nothing. Keyed switch for mayday, noticed fuel selector not quite vertical on both, but slightly off towards right. Lined it up....said a little prayer.....after what felt like an hour but was probably just a few seconds the engine spluttered back to life.

The aircraft had been draining quicker from the left tank than the right so I had almost full right and about half in the left. I switched to right tank only. After about 30 mins it had evened out a bit so I switched back to both....or so I thought. The selector isn't so much one or the other but a graduation between the options. Turns out I'd not put it properly to both so after a couple of minutes using the fuel that was in the engine and lines the engine just quit.

Lesson learnt. New trousers purchased.

[AdamFrisch]

A pan, pan once when oil pressure dropped to almost zero on right engine. Headed for nearest airport, but this was over New Mexico desert with not many around. Right engine still made power so kept it running, but was prepared to shut it down if it started misbehaving. Landed safely and it turned out to be some carbon stuck in the oil pressure relief valve.

[chevvron]

Done several practice pans, but thankfully never had the 'need' to call Mayday.
However, when I was controlling on LARS West:
Pilot 1: 'aircraft calling mayday say again' (I hadn't heard it)
Pilot 1: 'Farnborough G-ZZ reports he's had engine failure and has landed in a field north of Basingstoke'.
I took appropriate action including getting the reporting pilot to go and orbit over the last observed position of G-ZZ and getting a Farnborough based Lynx helicopter which happened to be nearby to go there and land to ensure everybody was all right. He then gave the two occupants a lift back to Blackbushe. I've always found helicopter pilots both civil and military are 100% co-operative in such situations.
10 years later:-
Pilot 2: Farnborough G-XX engine failure north of Basingstoke.
Me: G-XX is this a practice.
Pilot: Negative, Mayday Mayday Mayday G-XX engine failure north of Basingstoke.
No helicopters around so I got another aircraft from the same club who was on frequency to go to the site and report, but was able to maintain 2 - way contact with the aircraft which had engine failure.

The two engine failure aircraft were both AA5s from the same club at Blackbushe and the second one landed in exactly the same field that the first one landed in!!

[Bob Viking]

The first time I called mayday it was on May 1st, which in the UK is often referred to as May Day. I was the instructor in the back of a Hawk TMk1 and a bird (a red kite so they told me afterwards) put a large hole in the canopy when I was at 250' and 420 knots. It got very loud and quite cold but once we slowed down it wasn't so bad. The mayday came out once I'd already got myself heading towards my nearest diversion airfield. Quite uneventful from then on. The weird thing is I was almost glad it had happened. I always wanted to know how I'd handle the situation. Thankfully quite well. I remembered to take a deep breath so I sounded cool when I made the call on guard.
The second mayday was on behalf of a wingman who lost more of his canopy than I did in a very similar situation. He couldn't hear the radio so I did the talking for him.
That's it so far and now I've done it I'm in no rush to do it again!
BV

[B Fraser]

2nd solo, 300 feet after touch and go and lost a cylinder - possibly due to lead fouling. I found out that the engine had a plugs change earlier in the day. The school was first class so no quibbles with their engineering team who could not replicate the fault on the ground. I declared a Pan and the ATC / fire truck chaps were terrific.

Becalmed in a hot air balloon over railway lines with trains hurtling by at 125 mph beneath the basket. Adjacent to our position, we had power lines, a forest and a river with a mere 15% remaining on the last tank. There was no use in calling anyone so I didn't bother. Previously, I had done a burn and climb to 2,500 feet then descended which changed our location over the ground by about 30 feet. We eventually got it down on top of the railway embankment in an area 15 feet wide with a fence running up the middle and dropped the envelope in the trees.

Paraglider launch off a cliff above lake Annecy in France from a clearing a little wider than the wing. I caught a tip in a branch and spun into a tree, ending up clinging to the trunk above a 500 foot drop. My mates got me out and I had a Stella Artois event in the bar that night where we got very "refreshed". Money well spent.

Squeaky bum times !

[Heston]

Yes - engine failure in circuit. Aviate navigate communicate. The mayday call isn't going to save you, your skill may. Only call once you've got the landing planned and and done an attempt at restart if there's time (and don't try that unless you really have got time). Mary - you're a glider pilot so of course your first thought is "where am I going to land?" which is as it should be.

[foxmoth]

Couple of PANS - engine stopped on a dH82a during a stall turn and did not restart on the dive, sorted my field then put out the Pan AFTER I had the landing planned, definitely the way round to do it.Next was uncertain of position over Wales, in IMC and getting no VOR reception - headwind had increased from the forecast 40kts to 60!
My one Mayday was actually the FO calling it on taking a Swan through an A330 engine getting airborne from Glasgow, PAN would have been fine, but I have no problem with someone calling a Mayday instead, better that way round than Pan when it should be Mayday!

[A and C]

Following an in flight engine failure on a light twin and then a PAN call I was on approach to an airfield, the tower controler had already asked for radio silence on a number of occasions, as I reached my single engine committal height the landing clearance was blocked by another transmission so I was forced to go around.

At that point I made a Mayday call, this and other requests from the controler did not have any effect on those who clearly felt that without being able to talk on the radio the wings would fall off.

Eventually I made an ICAO non complying call of " you lot F£?!@ well shut up this is a F@&£!?£ emergency" .......... That seemed to work for a while but just as I was about to land another one asked if it was alright to speak now ?

The interesting thing to note was that all the transmissions during the emergency came from one flying club, the other club on the field and the private owners did not say a word.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

I remembered to take a deep breath so I sounded cool when I made the call

Forget all the other nonsense. I believe Bob has hit on the most important thing. Ever.

[FantomZorbin]

MM
Speaking as one who would have answered you on 243.0/121.5, I can only reiterate the old adage "Aviate - Navigate - Communicate". Bob V. is absolutely correct.
Yes the 'MAYDAY' call is essential to either, get you on the ground without hindrance, or, get the emergency services to your field of choice ASAP.
As said above, no sensible aviator is going to criticise you for calling MAYDAY and subsequently downgrading it as the situation resolves itself - least of all the guys on the ground doing their best to assist!

[Pace]

I have to admit and I do not know if others experience the same but I feel really embarrassed saying "Mayday Mayday Mayday".

I remember with the smoke filled Citation incidence it had to be dragged out of me by the controller :ugh:

My call started " Um we have a problem" Followed by the Controller asking the nature of the problem, then asking if I was declaring an emergency?

I don't know what it is with those words but I hate saying them!

would much prefer " XYZ is declaring a mayday" or even better " XYZ is declaring an emergency".

Maybe Mayday Mayday Mayday is to much like the films :E

Pace

[shortstripper]

Yes ... Prior to a forced landing into a field.

I cancelled it when on the ground only to have a police helicopter land a few minutes later and the crew come over. I said I'd cancelled the call which they acknowledged but they said they were about to land at Deanland (nearest airfield) and refuel anyway ... so thought they'd just check I was ok. Nice of them but very embarrassing.

Mary ... as you will know. Aviate first communicate second. At 1500' put out a call once you have tried a restart and if that fails picked a field. Radio call is way down the priority list but worth making if you can do it without taking your mind off other things in a high stress situation. I would question an instructor who thought otherwise!

SS

PS ... I know what you mean Pace. I think my call went along the lines of "Ummmm! Mayday (just once I think ... I may even have said Pan Pan rather than Mayday?) ... Shoreham, G-#### ummmm, engine failure near Deanland, errrr but big field below" .... The ground call to say I was ok was relayed by the police helicopter. The call wasn't text book for sure but I was concentrating on the landing by then and my memory of what I actually said has gone.

[Bob Viking]

Sod the embarrassment. If you need to call mayday you'll know. I'd called pan many times before but when the hole in my canopy appeared I knew exactly what I was going to say. Sadly our tape didn't run on the day but another Sqn mate in the area did have a good tape. I remember listening to it the next day to see if I sounded as cool as I thought I did. I remember the call to this day.
"Mayday, mayday, mayday VYT83 mayday"
"VYT83 your mayday is acknowledged pass your message" (on guard and ATC were excellent).
"V83 is a Hawk in the Llampeter area, I've had a bird strike with a big hole in the canopy (I was annoyed about using big instead of just saying a hole) request vectors for Cardiff".
What followed was a vector, which was within 5 degrees of where I'd decided upon myself, and then simple instructions and acknowledgement from then on. We set up for a visual straight in on the westerly runway. I also remember having to avoid a large shower for fear of getting wet.
We had the entire conversation on guard (the first time I spoke to Cardiff was on the ground frequency) and it didn't bother me one bit. I even found out afterwards from a friend that he had been flying a Nimrod on exercise over Cardiff and they immediately set up a RESCAP in the event of an ejection when they heard the call.
The only other thing to add was that from the first mayday I prefixed every call with "mayday V83". Not sure if that was correct but it meant, in my mind, that everyone knew why I was disturbing the peace on 243.0.
So there we go. Not the most exciting mayday ever, but when you're in a single engine jet and it's just become a cabriolet and you never know if any shards of Perspex have gone down the intake, why take a chance?!
BV

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

This one was professionally handled:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPkZBR89y_M

[Pace]

Amazing video and hats off to them handled beautifully

Pace

[piperboy84]

Yeah hats off, this was a bit more anxious

6IrclNLxKt8

[Pace]

Seen this one before a very plucky lady but she seemed oblivious to icing or what to do about it!

the controller seemed far more switched on than the pilot and ended up making pilot decisions for her.

She would have probably been better landing, composing herself and getting a warm cup of tea before proceeding to Bangor but you still have to admire her courage.

Pace

[John R81]

2x Pan calls about 5 years apart on different machines but both within 8 min flying time of home field, both on the way back in.

The first when trainingin an R44, a failed electric auxiliary fuel pump. Keeping low-power setting on te cyclic, the mechanical fuel pump was adequate and the engine didn't miss a beat. ATC were great, I kept it high and used an autorotation profile for the final, as I was not sur that height, once lost, would be easily recovered. Power recovery landing.

Now I realise this was not as worrying as it seemed at that level of knowledge / training. ATC were great and no-one suggested that a Pan was an over-reaction.


Second was an EC120 which developed increasing electrical problems over three minutes. Generator warning that would not reset. Gen off, unnecessary load reduced. Then a battery voltage drop, followed 30 sec later by a Master Caution Electric; now i am confused as to what is happening and decided to tell someone. I declared PAN, intending autorotation approach, 2 miles to run, 120knt, 1400ft. This is what happened next:


ATC: [EC120] You are No1; cleared to land, any surface. Wind 260 at 12. One in the circuit.

Me: No1, cleared to land. Will use Area 1 passing to the right of the crash truck. Visual R22 downwind in the circuit. Commencing autorotation in 30 seconds.


[Fresh call]

R22: XXXX Downwind, I can turn inside the EC120 for 26H


ATC: (very calmly) XXXX that's very interesting, thanks for letting me know; and you are still No2 to the 120 with declared PAN.




Well, it made me laugh. And "Thank You" to ATC for making things easy for me!

Turned out to be a failure of the electric controle box. Quite expensive.

[Legalapproach]

Mayday is supposed to indicate a life threatening emergency and I agree with the observations of PACE as to a certain reticence to make a Mayday call. I have never done so but have made three Pan calls.
Once in a Hawk when the air con unit blew up (although we did't know what the problem was at the time, just a bang and some vibration).

Once in a Cub when the engine stopped as I was about to turn final (thought I could make the field when it happened - and I did)

Once in a PA 32 when the engine didn't seem to be putting out the normal power as I started to climb whilst coasting outbound across the North Sea and so diverted to Rotterdam. It was middle of winter and so called Rotterdam and asked for a diversion telling them we thought we might have a problem and wanted to land and just check that everything was OK. As we approached the Airport we began to get some slight rough running. As we flew downwind it appeared that there was some smoke in the cockpit and if I remember correctly I simply said 'Be advised we appear to have a bit of smoke' and at that stage they asked if I was declaring an emergency and I said yes we would call a pan. At the time it never struck me that there was enough of a problem to make a mayday call and I didn't think we would be unable to make a safe landing. As it was we landed on the runway to be met by a number of firetrucks racing up the runway towards us. It later transpired that a cylinder had blown and the smoke was caused by oil being dumped underneath the engine on to the exhaust system.

I don't know if the reticence was caused by British stiff upper lip or that in each case I didn't think that the situation had actually become life threatening.

[Big Pistons Forever]

My 02 cents

If you have an emergency and you have done the initial sorting of the aircraft the first words on the radio should be Mayday,Mayday,Mayday. This tells ATC and everyone else on the frequency that you have a problem.

If you are in doubt as to whether you should call Pan or Mayday, then there is no doubt call Mayday, you can always downgrade it later.

Anyone who implies that you are a lesser pilot because you called a Mayday when maybe you did not have to, is a stupid fool and should be completely ignored.

4 Mayday's for me so far.

Engine failure on departure in a C 150

Engine failure on departure in a PA 31

Control problem due to misrigged trim tab in a T 28 Trojan

Major electrical malfunction which resulted in a partial panel battery power only ILS in a C 421

[ChrisVJ]

Twice, but the first one wasn't in an airplane.

We had a 36 ft sailboat. It had just had a major overhaul and I was single handed motoring back to our regular harbour. Going round a point where two tides meet I was skirting the race when the engine failed. The boat started drifting into the race which was very, very choppy. I pulled out roller jib (120% masthead so a big sail,) but there wasn't enough wind even to fill it.

The boat drifted further into the race and was working it's way to the rocks. I called Mayday and about thirty minutes later the Coastguard arrived and towed me out of the race but then I had to get a commercial tow which was expensive. Luckily insurance took care of it.

Second time:
Downwind at 1,000 ft after take off coolant temp. soared. Shut down engine and turned for runway. Called Mayday (uncontrolled airfield) to warn gliders using airfield I was returning no engine. Made the runway. Turned out I had left the radiator cap off. Found it sitting on top of engine.(No cowl either!)

[glendalegoon]

Believe it or not, check airman can be wrong.

In your situation:

maintain control of the aircraft (trim for best glide)

turn towards pre selected emergency field

attempt re-start (light plane, mixture rich, carb heat on, switch fuel tanks etc)

send mayday with position and intention (crashing in farmer's field 10 west of buckingham palace)

tighten seat belt and PRETEND YOUR FIELD IS A wonderful runway.

Pray.


Now, if you know what is wrong, like you just switched fuel tanks and the engine quit, you can amend this.


I've only declared one emergency, a medical emergency for a passenger (9 year old boy) who found out he was allergic to peanuts on his first jet flight.

We didn't say , "mayday", we said: we are declaring a medical emergency request radar vector to outer marker at Pittsburgh, priority handling and have paramedics at gate.

all went well. and NO PAPERWORK!

[India Four Two]

Going round a point where two tides meet I was skirting the race

ChrisVJ,

Was that the aptly named Boiling Reef off Saturna Island?

[Jan Olieslagers]

No .

[Sir Niall Dementia]

One mayday, 2 pans. The mayday was about 1m 30 before impact, and was not heard by ATC but was relayed, one Pan to Duxford on the Friday of the Flying Legends show, the world and his wife/P52/Spit Mk9/Me109 etc all held off as I landed, one to Luton Radar on a busy Sunday afternoon which got me down at Luton in a hurry, thankfully, the problem was worse than the warning lights were telling me.


One day I relayed for help for a helicopter in trouble in bad weather near Elstree. London Centre were struggling to make him out and it wasn't helped by T**ts over the Atlantic shouting "Hey buddy, you're on guard!" Especially the bloke in a KLM 747 who kept interfering and who took real exception to my non-standard call of "F*** off you c***, this blokes in trouble and we're trying to help him, while you're helping to kill him!" My employers got a snotty e-mail from a KLM manager who traced my call sign, I sent one back suggesting they learn from Teneriffe and kick their pilot's a***. Strangely they went quiet after that.


SND

[fin100]

Overheard on 121.5 early morning over the south coast "practice PAN practice PAN practice PAN" Heavy Asian accent replies "whose calling Pakistan” the saga repeats poor student never gets his call in!

[Blind Squirrel]

Didn't, but should have.

I had a partial engine failure in a C150; set up for a glide approach to the nearest field; and had it turn into into a complete power loss on downwind. Put out a call on the Common Traffic Advisory Frequency: something along the lines of "Cessna 12345, partial engine failure; unable to maintain altitude; four miles east of X field at 5,000 descending; all traffic in the area please give way."

To my amazement, that was followed by some genius self-announcing five miles south, telling us all of his intention to enter left downwind at X field. I patiently explained to him that I was stretching my glide into a strong headwind and was not going to be able to avoid him if we arrived at the same time.

He saw the point and agreed to hold until I'd landed. But it was an unnecessary distraction at a time when I had my hands full with more important business. Should it happen again, if I've enough time for radio work, my message will be a lot more unambiguous: "Mayday mayday mayday, Cessna 345 engine failure four miles east X 5,000 descending, everybody keep clear of X until I'm on the ground."

[Brian Abraham]

Mayday - personally no, although the copilot on one occasion used his initiative and made the call when we had an engine failure at V1. Pans - too numerous to count, result of new type certified engine in a new type certified airframe.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Yeah hats off, this was a bit more anxious

6IrclNLxKt8

OMFG! I lost count of the number of times I told her to just shut up and fly. What a lot of useless noise:ugh:

[overandout]

Just once. Full Mayday Mayday Mayday. Total engine failure 12,000 ft over Alaska range of mountains.
Zero response from ATC.
Repeated call. This time got a response "Roger Mayday- say number of souls on board"
ie No hope mate for you out there. How many bodies are we going to have to look for?
Horrid slow dead-stick glide to find a little short dirt strip. Survived to tell the tale

[OpenCirrus619]

Mayday is supposed to indicate a life threatening emergency

Provided there's a landable field within gliding range I can't imagine the fan stopping ever being an emergency (let alone life threatening) when Mary is driving :ok:

I think glendalegoon has the priorities pretty well spot on :D

OC619

[PTR 175]

Just a Pan call after the alternator quit on the C 172 I was flying. Sywell got the fire truck out and everybody on the ground who heard it rushed outside to see what was going on, so I was later told. I was good to know somebody could help.

[Jan Olieslagers]

@Blind Squirrel: do I interpret allright that you considered yourself "downwind" at 5000' (AMSL?) and 4 NM from the field? What field has such a circuit?

[glendalegoon]

dear JAN

I imagine many airports with a field elevation of 4000' msl would have a pattern altitude of 5000' msl.

Maybe you live somewhere near sea level. There is a field near one place I live that you would be 900' below the ground at 5000' msl.

So, No reason to doubt this story . He is just flying somewhere high, like the western United States. Try it. You'll like it. There are airfields in the USA that are above 8000' in some places and you have to get special data to fly there from the manufacturer of some planes.

I think Mexico city is at or near 8000'.

I'm sure you get the idea.

JAN, where do you live?

[Jan Olieslagers]

You can see where I live (or near) from my profile. Very flat area indeed. And the message I questioned was by a person based at Rennes, which is not that high either: airport elevation is 137' . But even disregarding altitude, I am equally baffled by the 4NM from the field - how far from the field do you fly downwind?

[Curlytips]

I thought I had a problem because the rev counter was oscillating like crazy, but the engine was still running smoothly. I steered towards nearby airfields heading back to home base just in case. I'd just started working Bedford (old MoD as was) when the engine seized solid with a very stationary prop. Rather than the proper mayday call, it came out as "er....engine stopped" with them replying "Roger, cleared land any runway you can make". I had 2500 feet and a tailwind and glided nearly 4 miles straight in. Taxing was a problem, but the fire crews that were alongside by the time I landed pushed me into the hangar, where she stayed for 3 months awaiting new engine. Adrenalin really does focus and sleep that night was more than difficult.

[mary meagher]

On my very first cross country flight in power, flew from Wycombe Air Park to Blackbush in a Cessna 152. Landed, got the logbook signed. Took off again in less than perfect viz, which got steadily worse. Really crap. I became seriously uncertain of my position! So, being on Wycombe frequency, asked for assistance, like how about a vector? Unable, they replied, try Benson.
So I switched frequency to Benson and said Pan, pan, pan, I don't know where I am. They gave me their full attention. Steer heading 270. Okay, now steer heading 360. We have you identified. Cessna 152, if you look down, you may find yourself directly overhead RAF Benson!

And so I was, and they gave me directions to the M40, which under a seriously lowering cloudbase (about 800 feet) took me back to Wycombe.

That near LHR one does not want to be uncertain of one's position......

The only time I ever called a Mayday was on a 27 foot sailboat in a nasty storm off the coast of Texas. As soon as I said those magic words, everything changed. We got help, coastguard helicopter S&R, ended up
being towed into Galveston. As it was a genuine emergency they didn't even charge for the service! (which if the emergency had been caused by running out of petrol, or similar, it would have cost me a lot of money!)

In an aeroplane, if you are going to die, it will all be over with quickly. In a boat, being seasick, scared, cold and wet, it goes on for hours and hours and hours.....

[Blind Squirrel]

Jan Olieslagers:-

No, you're not interpreting it aright (but don't worry: if I was reading a similar story in a foreign language, most of the nuances would get by me too). This was indeed in the United States, hence the reference to the CTAF, while I was on a long cross-country flight. When the engine started losing RPM, I looked for the nearest airfield; fortunately there was one about five miles to my west. I pointed the aircraft directly at it, but because I still had partial power -- even though there was a hell of a headwind -- I arrived there at about 2,000' AGL. So I joined a normal circuit from the dead side. The engine finally gave up on downwind, but I still had about 1,700' AGL at that point and was quite close in.

My not-Mayday call was made as soon as I turned towards the field, not after I had already overflown it.

[150 Driver]

Just bought my pride and joy and was flying it home when all electrical power was lost - subsequently found to be an alternator failure.

Radio failed, but by switching everything off I managed to get enough power back in the battery to then make a mayday call to Wattisham saying I was heading for Cambridge and to warn them of my approach.

After acknowledgement switched everything off again leaving just enough juice in the battery for radio contact to be established at Cambridge.

With hindsight maybe more a Pan than Mayday, but it got me on the ground safely.

[Jan Olieslagers]

@Blind Squirrel: thanks for explaining, it seems that I read you more literally than was intended... which has happened to me before.

[mad_jock]

Honestly in Europe I have never heard of a problem with people declaring what ever they like. Be it pan or mayday.

So really it doesn't matter.

There is an often discussed matter if a pref A twin loosing a donk is a mayday or not. It really doesn't matter as there are ATC rules about aircraft loosing 50% of there performance so it doesn't matter what you declare your going to get the same thing anyway.

Same with any other problem as soon as ATC find out that you have an issue they decide what you get. Even if you haven't declared anything you might still be met with the full monty on landing and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Its better to declare something (and it really doesn't matter if its a pan or mayday) then they know than nothing at all if you want something.

If you have the knowledge and experience to be more than happy with what ever has failed say nothing. Full static system failure instruments showing rubbish VFR in a SEP. I wouldn't say a thing after 1000 hours sitting in the RHS seat instructing I just don't use instruments apart from the altimeter occasionally when ATC require it. But a fresh meat PPL I wouldn't comment apart from "well done" if they declared a mayday and got back safe an sound.

If your bum starts twitching declare something, if its not twitching don't.

[mary meagher]

Cross country flying in a glider, usually don't bother with a radio. But there I was, with a new PPL, radio ticket, flying in a 15 meter wingspan glider, and on the radio to Brize Radar, just letting them know I was abeam.

And then, halfway along toward Fairford, the next thermal didn't deliver. Nor the next. I am getting seriously low - 1,200 by now. Still on the blower to Brize, I told them I was getting low, and could I please have permission to land at Fairford, which was within easy reach.

They asked me to change frequency to Fairford, and I replied "unable, I'm busy" so they telephoned Fairford on the land line, came back and told me I had PERMISSION to land the glider at Fairford! Hoot man! I decided, having permission, to land on the runway. Hells teeth, I could have landed ACROSS the runway, it was enormous! But I came straight in, did a decent touchdown, rolled to a stop....

....and was met by the emergency vehicles, firemen dressed in silver suits, jeep with MP's brandishing weapons, and so on. I opened the canopy and said "I didn't think my landing was that bad!"

"No, ma'm," they replied, "we just like practicing!"

They helped move the glider out of the way, took me to the commanding officer, who bought me a burger and a milkshake and gave me 4 tickets for the Tattoo, which started the following week. He said it was just as well that I had landed on the runway, as the grass was full of stakes marking out the areas for the airshow!

[Heston]

MJ, I love it - If your bum starts twitching declare something, if its not twitching don't.


Great advice, and so well put! :)

[Jan Olieslagers]

it was just as well that I had landed on the runway, as the grass was full of stakes marking out the areas for the airshow! WOW!

There is another aspect, though: at least here in BE, and I suppose in many other places too, microlighters are bred into a mentality of "always try to keep a low profile". IOW if things go wrong, you don't go telling all and sundry over the radio, just quietly drop into a suitable field and call your friends to come with a 4x4 and trailer. I was taught to consider this a non-event, though I still have to see myself doing it all and keep my blood cool.

Being lost however, especially near busy/complicated airspace, as in Mary's above example, is of course a perfect example of when one's bum SHOULD itch!

[mad_jock]

itchy bum is a completely different situation to a twitchy bum Jan.

Itchy bum can be solved very easily using the plates for Charles de Gaulle out of the jepps if nothing else available.

[Jan Olieslagers]

;) thanks for introducing me to the finer nuances of Shakespeare'an ...

[mad_jock]

You can get both at the same time which is definitely a mayday.

[Go Smoke]

I've been unlucky enough to suffer 5 total engine failures. I called mayday on 4 of them.

Had countless rough runners. Pan called some of those but not all. Reason for not all.....twice in the circuit at home airfield.....RT a little more casual....."X-XXXX rough running engine positioning for straight in approach runway XX"

Had one last week. Diverted into Manston.....bless em. Sad to see them go.

[Piper.Classique]

Pan call for an alternator failure in VMC? Really? Flew the Cub for six months without a generator while we waited for parts.
Had two and a half engine failures.

One was an elderly motor glider with a pull start, tried to restart after failing to soar and punched myself in the nose when the cable came adrift from the handle. The incentive to soar became quite considerable, in the absence of any field large enough to take off from and the equal absence of a trailer. Scrabbled away and got back home.
One in a C172 in the hold with the student flying. Saw the temp rising and the pressure falling and we landed off the procedure, in marginal VMC. The student didn't actually notice anything wrong despite the oil mist on the windscreen and the odd smell. The engine was still running as we landed and my CFI wasn't best pleased with me for not taking it to the maintenance base twenty minutes away. It got its replacement engine fitted outside...... So that was the half.....

Then the next week I lost a magneto drive on takeoff, which somewhat annoyed the engine as the random sparks perturbed the ignition process. Landed ahead on a nice long runway, while the glider behind avoided running up my tailplane. He probably had the more interesting experience.

None of them involved any radio calls, not that either the motor glider or the tug had a radio anyway but the half failure I suppose could have merited a pan call if I had had any expectation that the fire engine would have started. As it was we didn't need one.

Not that a radio knows anything about flying anyway. Best keep the airframe in one piece then you won't need to tell the ambulance where to find you. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to ask for help, just that the priority has to be fly the aeroplane. Then point it in a reasonable direction, and after that if you think some help would be useful, then it's time to start asking.

[Jan Olieslagers]

keep the airframe in one piece then you won't need to tell the ambulance where to find you

This should go into all basic piloting guides.

[Go Smoke]

It is.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

It's the way it's supposed to be taught.
It it isn't being taught that way then the instructor is not correct.

First actions.

Trim for best glide.
Select landing area.
Plan your way in to the landing zone.

Only then attempt a restart. Sensible stuff really......fuel pump on, change tanks, carb heat, mags.

If no restart then shutdown. Pull the mixture, mags off.

Don't want it to restart on short final only to die again on climb out.....

If the donk has destroyed itself in a shower of pistons and assorted metal parts you can skip the above.

Transmit a mayday so they know where to find the bodies.

Get it in the field.

If transmitting on the radio is likely to take away from your ability to fly the plane, then don't transmit.

Priority number one is getting it safely in the field.

Harnesses tightened.

Master off, Fuel off (master switch off once last stage of flap deployed if electrically actuated) before touch down and, depending on airframe, unlatch the door/s


If you're really good you'll select a suitable landing site that's just a short stroll away from a purveyor of fine ales :D :)

[Camargue]

I think calling a Mayday or Pan ultimately depends on the circumstances, where you are, where you can get to and what assistance you might need etc

I was doing aeros and on pulling vertical heard a change in engine note and felt a slight vibration so headed back to the airfield (a mown patch of grass with a cowshed at one end where the plane lived) I didn't call mayday as I wasn't going to make a proper airfield so no one to help, I wasn't near controlled airspace or 100 miles from anywhere so the only point would have been to dial 121.5 and say 'tell my wife I love her and tell little Jonny to be a good boy'

besides the radio wasn't even on...

[mad_jock]

I wonder how many engine failures there are that go unreported.

[Jan Olieslagers]

As far as microlights are concerned, in some countries the figure must be 90% at least.
Nothing wrong with that, seeing the low number of fatalities (which make the newspapers). An engine failure followed by an out-landing is a non-event to microlighters. Gliders are even better: they don't need an engine failure to justify an out-landing.

[India Four Two]

Landed ahead on a nice long runway, while the glider behind avoided running up my tailplane.

Piper.Classique,

Out of interest, did you wave off the glider or just dump the rope?

I noticed I had no airspeed indication during a takeoff one day, but with an open-class glider full of water behind me, I decided continuing was the better option. ;)

[mary meagher]

Wave off? wave off?

Piper Classic was TAKING OFF, towing a glider, when the engine quit, and landed straight ahead while the glider, presented with the interesting problem of a non moving obstacle in the way, managed to avoid it without groundlooping. Proper job!

INDIA FOUR TWO asks "did you wave off the glider or just drop the rope?"

As both tug and glider were still on the active runway, we can guess the answer!

Although the British Gliding Association advice to tugs is, if there is a problem, to wave off the glider by unmistakable maneuvering, at low levels this would be a really stupid thing to do! In a 150 Supercub, towing a K13 twoseater glider, saw in my rearview mirror (every airplane should have one!) that the GLIDER HAD THE AIRBRAKES FULLY OPEN. My airspeed was now about 45 miles an hour. No way do you wave your wings at this point.
We staggered up to 300 feet, and then I dumped the glider.

My knees were literally knocking together in fear; I landed back at the airfield and looked for the glider, expecting they would have landed back; no joy. Not realising the cause of the heavy sink was airbrakes, they had planked it nicely in a field in the valley, no damage to any person or airframe.

As a rule, most low level problems do not permit the luxury of a mayday call.

[BabyBear]

No way do you wave your wings at this point.

Mary, is that because correct action is to signal air brakes are out by 'waggling' the rudder?:p:)

BB

[Piper.Classique]

Mary is quite right. I used one hand on the stick, one to pull the mixture then the mags, then I dumped the rope, and stopped in a straight line. The glider dropped the rope as well,and landed next to me. We were both in the air when the engine went tu. Of course, at a greater height, it would have been worthwhile turning off a mag to see which was the knackered one. Not at ten metres with a lot of runway in front.
:ugh:

[handleturning]

I would always try and get a mayday out if humanly possible. Doesn't have to be the text book version (it rarely is). But given your priority is to survive the landing, a small back up incase someone needs to cut you out of any wreck is prudent in my view.

Never made a Mayday, lost count of the number of Pans (certainly more than 2 dozen).

[FantomZorbin]

Slightly off thread.
A great many years ago a Vulcan in the radar circuit at RAF Waddington/Scampton broadcast a PAN* call regarding a crash the crew had seen between 2 cars on a remote Lincolnshire road - it was just as well as one of the drivers was rather badly knocked about I believe.


* In the days when the word PAN was only said 3 times!